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Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 12:15:07 AM

StacyCat

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Would you rather have a submissive who easily falls into the submissive role, or one who has to struggle internally to submit, but still does it?

Many of the people I talk with talk about submission being "natural" to them, that they naturally put others before them, even when not in a relationship. I am the opposite. I am a selfish person, I think mostly of myself (but, ive been single for a while, so that is a usual way of thinking for me.)

So, submitting would be a semi mind fuck for me. It would be a major mental undertaking, even as my actions would be submissive in nature. Of course, I would hope this would become easier as the relationship and submission deepens, but the initial journey would be hard.

So, which is better, when starting a relationship? Someone who easily submits, or someone who submits through mental struggle?

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 5:18:08 AM

slaveluci

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StacyCat

Would you rather have a submissive who easily falls into the submissive role, or one who has to struggle internally to submit, but still does it?

Many of the people I talk with talk about submission being "natural" to them, that they naturally put others before them, even when not in a relationship. I am the opposite. I am a selfish person, I think mostly of myself (but, ive been single for a while, so that is a usual way of thinking for me.)

So, submitting would be a semi mind fuck for me. It would be a major mental undertaking, even as my actions would be submissive in nature. Of course, I would hope this would become easier as the relationship and submission deepens, but the initial journey would be hard.

So, which is better, when starting a relationship? Someone who easily submits, or someone who submits through mental struggle?

Wow, StacyCat. I think this is a great question. I have so many thoughts on it as Master and I have discussed this on more than one occasion but I'm heading to work soon. I hope you get lots of thoughtful answers and I'll be back this evening to see if there's anything left to add. Thanks for the food for thought...............luci

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 6:03:40 AM

esmerelda

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Just asked Master this question and of course His answer was not a straightforward one. 'A mixture of both'. Probably explains why He is with me, i guess i am naturally submissive in lots of ways but have taken some 'gentle' persuasion in many others and go on to......

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es xx

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 6:06:56 AM

Maya2001

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From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
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I am sure there will be a variety of different answers and will partly be different due to the doms experiences and what they are looking for in an individual, but I would be hesitent to say one is better than the other, I have seen some women who have been single for a long time who are pretty much helpless and need others still to make decisions for them and not willing to try and tackle tasks/things on their own. I have been single for a long time and was the dominate one in a seven year relationship even though submissive in nature , also raised a child as a single parent, went back to school to get a post secondary eduction then, worked and supported myself bought my own home, will attempt to learn and try to do my own home and auto repairs at times, started a home based business, did volunteer work, was president of a housing co-op for a while that was in the planning, zoning and construction stage, have close to 30 years in of taking care/supporting of myself and others, so for me a struggle in some ways, though the doms I have talked to and are attracted to me viewed that as an asset, but it will be interesting to see the responses

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 7:41:18 AM

MrSpectacular

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I think i would be a lot more comfortable without the drama of the mindfuck as you call it. Relationships are difficult enough - having a D,s relationship adds to that. So to want to enter into something with someone who is ambivalent about what they want or is going to put you through a huge amount of drama is not something I would look forward to or want.

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 8:09:21 AM

mistoferin

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It really depends upon how you view natural submission. I see myself as a natural submissive in that my comfortable role in a relationship is the in position of deference. I am not a naturally submissive person in that I certainly do not take that position with the world at large. That does not mean that each and every instance within the constructs of that dynamic will come easy. If it were not a struggle at times...if I never felt challenged...if I never had to "actively" submit as opposed to "passively" submit...in my mind, my submission would lose all value.

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 8:17:52 AM

dreamywoman

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Being rather a new, I can only answer this from my own perspective and raise the question, so many appeared not to ask. Are you truly submissive? Or making yourself that way to be with a certain individual? OK so if your answer is you are truly submissive, you appear more as the bratty child, which is rather good for that Daddy Dom.:)Otherwise, I would say it depends on the Dom. My Dom loves the fact I am a natural nurturer and that I love to take care of him. He also likes the fact I am very feisty out of the bedroom and have a lot of dominant responsibilities in life-work home etc. I have been through a lot of the same types of painful life experiences he has so he considers us Partners, not me subpar with him.

I don't know if I have shed any light for you but that is my own experience.

(in reply to StacyCat)

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 10:19:30 AM

StacyCat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamywoman

Being rather a new, I can only answer this from my own perspective and raise the question, so many appeared not to ask. Are you truly submissive? Or making yourself that way to be with a certain individual? OK so if your answer is you are truly submissive, you appear more as the bratty child, which is rather good for that Daddy Dom.:)Otherwise, I would say it depends on the Dom. My Dom loves the fact I am a natural nurturer and that I love to take care of him. He also likes the fact I am very feisty out of the bedroom and have a lot of dominant responsibilities in life-work home etc. I have been through a lot of the same types of painful life experiences he has so he considers us Partners, not me subpar with him.

I don't know if I have shed any light for you but that is my own experience.

What do you mean by "truly submissive"? Can you define that term for me?

(in reply to dreamywoman)

Post #: 8

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 11:50:52 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StacyCat
Would you rather have a submissive who easily falls into the submissive role, or one who has to struggle internally to submit, but still does it?

I don't want a sub who ALWAYS struggles before doing it. I've had a few of those types attracted to me and that's just too much energy and not enough personal responsiblity/growth potential for me to get into.

I'm fine with someone who has a fair combination of both though- likely becuause I don't know many people who remain true to themselves 100% of the time without experiencing struggle and conflict at least occasionally and I don't consider an occasional struggle to be a sign of lacking or too draining.

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Post #: 9

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 1:30:21 PM

Celeste43

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I am naturally submissive with one man only. With everyone else I was "Are you kidding me?". Besides selfish is a good thing in my book. It means you won't accept a relationship that won't work for you which is a lot better than getting into one and having it blow up in your face six months down the line.

Selfish is smart, hold out for somebody who fits into your life and into whose life you fit. If you don't get off on being micromanaged, then don't pick someone like that. If the relationship is right, then submitting won't be the big ordeal you're imagining it to be.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 2:50:49 PM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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What I don't want to have to do is to feel as if I'm nagging someone to get something done. I know it happens (and is happening right now), but it doesn't make me happy. The less I have to do this, the happier I am. So, as long as the slave is obedient, I feel fulfilled and the quicker they are obedient, the happier I am.

However, a part of my role is to help someone to develop. There are many things that I tell slaves I want...and then I wait, knowing that doing the thing I've asked for will be a journey for them. For example, I've been waiting for a written assignment from my girl for over a year and a half. I've asked her to define something...and it's been a journey for her. I've put a limit of two years on it now, 'cause I think it needs to go ahead an be over and done.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to StacyCat)

Post #: 11

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 3:05:31 PM

MistressGayle

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Wow, a year and half? You're much more patient than I am

I set up the rules right from the start, and expect that I will train the new slave in how I want them to serve Me.

I don't nag, I give the order and expect it to be carried out -- and I am clear on what I want to be done, and if necessary, how I want it to be done. I don't play games unless we're actually playing games....

For Me, respect is required -- and if I have to "nag" someone, it means they don't have enough respect for Me as their Owner to be obedient. I am not in the business of "taming" anyone; they must be ready, willing and able to live in My household as I have specified in the documents I send them at the beginning of our chats. All cards on the table from the start; if I see something that makes Me uncomfortable in the beginning, I'll head straight towards it and talk about it. If they won't make the change, then I move on quickly -- no need to acquire slaves that just make you miserable... there's nothing fulfilling in living that way...

and to add...

W/we begin the journey together as the slave is never alone in this....

< Message edited by MistressGayle -- 11/17/2007 3:08:43 PM >

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 12

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 3:29:36 PM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressGayle

Wow, a year and half? You're much more patient than I am

I set up the rules right from the start, and expect that I will train the new slave in how I want them to serve Me.

I don't nag, I give the order and expect it to be carried out -- and I am clear on what I want to be done, and if necessary, how I want it to be done. I don't play games unless we're actually playing games....

For Me, respect is required -- and if I have to "nag" someone, it means they don't have enough respect for Me as their Owner to be obedient. I am not in the business of "taming" anyone; they must be ready, willing and able to live in My household as I have specified in the documents I send them at the beginning of our chats. All cards on the table from the start; if I see something that makes Me uncomfortable in the beginning, I'll head straight towards it and talk about it. If they won't make the change, then I move on quickly -- no need to acquire slaves that just make you miserable... there's nothing fulfilling in living that way...

and to add...

W/we begin the journey together as the slave is never alone in this....

The things I nag about are usually non-important things in the grand scheme of things. And, I do have a limit.

The things I'm patient with are those things that I know will help them grow...and those things that I know I can't force. No matter who you are, you cannot force a person to truly, deeply and sincerely surrender to you. You can get them to ACT like it, but that is often done coercion and fear, which means it doesn't last long. Now that I think about it, I do quite a bit of taming. In fact, I’m even willing to say that it’s how I run my relationships. I state what I want. Then I wait. The depth of the relationship is dependent on how they act and react to what I’ve said I want. For example, I have a girl in my life who had trouble with calling me Ma’am, especially if she has to say, “Yes, Ma’am.” I’d told her this is what I wanted. I noticed that she wasn’t doing it. When she complained that I was treating her more like a friendly companion than a slave, I explained why. We talked about her difficulties. I listened and showed compassion and said, “Give it when you’re ready, but know it DOES affect the depth of the relationship.” Then, we went to an event and she went off by herself to a seminar. she came back and did a standing present to me and said, clearly and simply, “Yes Ma’am.” she explained that the workshop showed her that she had been dictating all the service. she had been giving exactly what she wanted, and balking at what I wanted and asked for; in other words she was controlling, not surrendering. When she was faced with that, she realized she wasn’t being who she said she was at all. It’s been, “Ma’am, yes Ma’am,” ever since…and now she carries a token of mine, knowing that I don’t give these lightly.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MistressGayle)

Post #: 13

RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 6:44:58 PM

kyraofMists

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In my relationship, he enjoys both aspects. He wouldn't want to be with someone where it was a constant struggle to get them to submit to the littlest things. However, he is going to push us to do things that we do not like and that we have to make a mental effort to submit to. He enjoys watching us gracefully submit to something that he knows it is hard to do.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to StacyCat)

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 7:15:18 PM

LaMspeach

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Like some have said I think it is a mixture of both. He enjoys that i am naturally submissive to him and yet I also think he enjoys that there are somethings I still struggle with.

In my mind what greater honor to give a Dom/Domme then to be able to step out side of your comofort zone and complete something for them that you had to stuggle with that didnt come naturely for you.

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 11:50:44 PM

MasterKazarik

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I have to say I agree with LuckyAlbatross..

I dont mind some struggle, but so long as it is only on things that are not important.. You start impacting the important parts of life and we will have issues.. In the end it might not turn out so good for the girl (punishment is a bitch! LOL)..
A natural submissive is ok, so long as they are not a machine... There is a point that a sub can become SOOO dependant on instructions from a Dom that it takes from the relationship... Granted some want it that way, in my books its a pain in the A$$!!!

Master Kaz

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/17/2007 11:56:02 PM

Lordandmaster

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You know, I've seen a lot of threads lately about this (or variations on the same topic). Do you want a sub who always obeys or a sub who needs to be broken? Do you want a sub who naturally submits and obeys or a sub who needs to be overpowered? Do masters get tired of slaves who always obey unquestioningly?

Kids, all I want is a sub who is honest. That, unfortunately, eliminates about 90% of you all. Sorry to have to say it.

Edited to add: And the ones who are honest, well, Lam tends to keep those for a long time.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 11/17/2007 11:57:05 PM >

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/19/2007 7:02:25 AM

Cloudz

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One of the things that I find hot is that while my sub is "naturally submissive" to me, meaning there are few struggles, and the struggles outweigh his desire to submit...he is not naturally submissive in his mannerisms outside of our relationship.

He is a strong, intelligent, take charge man in public situations and completely under my direction and desire when we are alone. I enjoy watching him interact on a professional level while knowing that there is nothing I could ask of him that would not result in complete obedience. Not sure if this makes sense - but that is my response.

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Enjoy the Journey,
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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/19/2007 7:32:24 AM

Slaveless1

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I know that there is a huge obstacle to overcome with one that is not naturally submissive. I understand the roles one has to take to take care of themselves if on their own, even with the help of her Masster. The real question is can that person actually and fully flip to the submissive side on command? It has been my experience....NO! Circumstances may circumnavigate their intentions, even though they want to. This may change if one lives with her Master or is closer where more time can be spent. It is a very hard road to accept as a Master and not as fullfilling as one that is naturally submissive.

< Message edited by Slaveless1 -- 11/19/2007 7:34:08 AM >

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RE: Natural or struggle? - 11/19/2007 9:00:03 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StacyCat
Would you rather have a submissive who easily falls into the submissive role, or one who has to struggle internally to submit, but still does it?

I will have a slave who surrenders herself of her own volition. Whether the path by which she comes to that nexus is easy or hard is a non-issue.

All who serve me do so because that is their desire. That is the order of things.

_____________________________

(in reply to StacyCat)

Post #: 20

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