Real0ne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Here is the salient part:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Did you catch that first part? "...shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." What can it mean? How can we find out? Gee, let's ask our old friend Thomas Jefferson:
I certainly did catch that :)
Did you know there is a difference between establishing a religion and recognizing the inalienable right to worship a religion in law?
What is religion but following the moral edicts of ones "conscience"?
God by any other name is a generic term used by all religions that i am aware of and use of the word God establishes no "specific" religion. It is a false premise to think this country was not founded on religious, specifically christian principles as can be seen by the volumes of text in both the early constitution and those of the states in the confederation.
Regardless of what specific religion the writers of the constitution were the moral edict was basically summarized as "conscience" to cover all religions and all Gods.. Even in the development of the constitution itself as can be seen in the senate journals.
Regardless of what specific religion they were the moral edict was basically summarized as "conscience". Even in the development of the constitution itself as can be seen in the senate journals.
Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1789.
"Art. XIV. No state shall infringe the right of trial by jury in criminal cases, nor the rights of conscience, nor the freedom of speech, or of the press.
"That no person shall be capable of being elected a senator who is not of the Protestant religion." (New Hampshire Constitution of 1784.)
The Fundamental Constitutions for the Province of East New Jersey in America, Anno Domini 1683 (1)
XVI. All persons living in the Province who confess and acknowledge the one Almighty and Eternal God, and holds themselves obliged in conscience to live peaceably and quietly in a civil society, shall in no way be molested or prejudged for their religious perswasions and exercise in matters of faith and worship; nor shall they be compelled to frequent and maintain any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever: Yet it is also hereby provided, that no man shall be admitted a member of the great or common Council, or any other place of publick trust, who shall not profaith in Christ Jesus, and solemnly declare that he doth no ways hold himself obliged in conscience to endeavour alteration in the government, or seeks the turning out of any in it or their ruin or prejudice, either in person or estate, because they are in his opinion hereticks, or differ in their judgment from him: Nor by this article is it intended, that any under the notion of this liberty shall allow themselves to avow atheism, irreligiousness, or to practice cursing, swearing, drunkenness, prophaness, whoring, adultery, murdering or any kind of violence, or indulging themselves in stage plays, masks, revells or such like abuses; for restraining such and preserving of the people in deligence and in good order, the great Council is to make more particular laws, which are punctually to be put in execution.
In 1934 the United States Supreme Court held that due process is violated "if a practice or rule offends some principle of justice so rooted in the traditions and conscience of our people as to be ranked as fundamental".[7]
http://www.answers.com/topic/due-process
"That all persons and religious societies who acknowledge that there is one God, and a future state of rewards and punishments, and that God is publicly to be worshipped, shall be freely tolerated. The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed, and is hereby constituted and declared to be, the established religion of this State. That all denominations of Christian Protestants in this State, demeaning themselves peaceably and faithfully, shall enjoy equally religious and civil privileges.
"No person shall be eligible to a seat in the said senate unless he be of the Protestant religion. No person shall be eligible to sit in the house of representatives unless he be of the Protestant religion." (South Carolina Constitution of 1778.)
"As morality and piety, rightly grounded on evangelical principles, will give the best and greatest security to government, and will lay in the hearts of men the strongest obligations to due subjection; and as the knowledge of these is most likely to be propagated through a society by the institution of the public worship of the DEITY, and of public instruction in morality and religion; therefore, to promote those important purposes, the people of this state have a right to impower, and do hereby fully impower the legislature to authorize from time to time, the several towns, parishes, bodies-corporate, or religious societies within this state, to make adequate provision at their own expence, for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality.....
"It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments, provided he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship....
"Therefore, to promote their happiness and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies-politic or religious societies to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion, and morality in all cases where such provision shall not be made voluntarily....
(Massachusetts Constitution of 1780.)
constitutionsociety.org
file:///D:/Research/Constitution/Evolution%20of%20the%20Constitution%20of%20the%20United%20States/evcon.htm
Clinton believes that the law of nature consists of practical reason applied to human experience.
http://www.thelockeinstitute.org/journals/luminary_v1_n2_p4.html
Most were nominally members of one of the traditional churches in their part of the country—the New Englanders Congregationalists and Presbyterians, the Southerners Episcopalians, and the men of the Middle States everything from backsliding Quakers to stubborn Catholics—and most were men who could take their religion or leave it alone. Although no one in this sober gathering would have dreamed of invoking the Goddess of Reason, neither would anyone have dared to proclaim that his opinions had the support of the God of Abraham and Paul. The Convention of 1787 was highly rationalist and even secular in spirit.” (Clinton Rossiter, American historian, “The Men of Philadelphia,” in 1787: The Grand Convention, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1987 [first ed., 1966], pp. 147-148.)
The Constitution that the framers agreed on and that the States ratified is neutral regarding religion, and not by accident. All the precedents, all the previous governing documents they had to draw from, were not neutral. The usual pattern was to invoke one form or another of “Almighty God” or of “The Lord” as the ultimate authority for the charter—until the Constitution’s “We the people . . .” broke that precedent in 1787. The framers, whatever their personal religious preferences, consciously decided that the federal government had no business making religious decisions for U.S. citizens.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=columns&page=framers
There are literally volumes upon volumes of documents all referencing various religious principles for the foundations of this country.
The moral of the story of course is that this government was formed within the boundaries of one flavor of christianity or another and of course reason as well and old law and so forth that dates back to the beginning of mankind pre-religion and back to the superstitution days if we really want to split hairs.
Its pretty difficult to separate reason from morality and morality from religion or lack of it as it is all intrinsically tied together.
Disclaimer to those who are spatially challenged: This is heavily edited to prevent anihilation.
< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/18/2007 8:07:30 AM >
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