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RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/18/2007 6:56:16 PM

corsetgirl

Posts: 824
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

Hi:

Thank you for the information on this person. After hearing a repeated recorded message from his campaign staff on the subject of enforcing gun owner's rights, I felt this was very annoying since he was captalizing on my dad's previous membership of the NRA and he died two years ago!

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 61

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/18/2007 7:04:58 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And all this time I thought that all the inner city gangs were caucaision. You know, like the "Jets" and the "Sharks."
You mean I'm wrong?

I see the point you're trying to make.

However, I believe that when the playing field is truly leveled for all, the ethnic makeup of gangs will be directly proportionate to the ethnic populations.

Whites form violent "gangs" too... look at the United States government, the Mafia, the WTO... etc etc etc

The Klew Klux Klan is the oldest and one of the most powerful terrorist arganisations in the US.

Yup, and they'll be voting for Hillary Clinton too.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 62

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/18/2007 7:40:17 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

As suspected, many people that claim to support the "individualism" of Ron Paul really just support his more bizarre views that align with those of the far-right fringe of the Republican party.

But Ron Paul is only a shade off from his fellow Republicans.

You can't be against multi-nationals and corporations and vote for Ron Paul. He doesn't have a coherent view on that.

You can't be against privatization. Ron Paul supports privatization all the way. Like most foolish libertarian types (most are disgruntled and overly idealistic Republicans) Paul thinks the Free Market will fix everything when we all know it doesn't. History is a long litany of proof that great wealth leads to monopoly and the Free Market has no controls for that.

If your gay, Paul is no friend to you.

Ron Paul is favorite among extremist white supremacist groups.

If your a woman that wants choice, look elsewhere.

This guy is in bed with the oil industry and wants to offer up subtle government subsidies so that the bloated oil industry can just keep going as is on the back of the taxpayer.

Paul opposes basis OSHA stuff that keeps American workplaces safer than those in China. If Ron Paul had a coherent stance on trade maybe your jobs wouldn't be going there.

With every way that Ron Paul seems to be giving you something on one issue, he's taking it all away in other ways.

Now maybe that's not exceptional among politicians. But Ron Paul is offered up as a maverick and I just can't see it. He is a maverick as compared to whom? Another Republican?

Ok now take your same itemized list above and tell us which other candidate has a better way of getting the job done. you are doing a great job of throwing rocks but you are not providing us with a better candidate.

You keep avoiding that, and since you do, i am of the conclusion you have no one! Hence RP is the best choice.

Until yo uhave someone this is a nonestarter.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/18/2007 7:41:37 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 63

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/18/2007 9:13:01 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

Give it up Realone, I asked him that a long time ago after his past Ron Paul bash fests. He seems to do this every couple of months if you missed the other love fests. This one is even worse. He won't give you an answer. There are only two possibilities why. 1. He just hates everyone. 2. He knows his candidate will be ripped to shreds. He gave I think possibilities or something of who'd he support. No commitment or conviction. You'd think with all the time he puts into "research" this would be a no brainer at this point.

I mean just ignore him. He offers nothing but rock throwing as you put it, and zero solutions, ever. Bitch, Bitch, Bitch. No solution.

It looks to me like he just goes to some Ron Paul hater site and collect there list(not good ones either that second site is full of broken links). I mean you have to do some digging to find a few POSSIBLE racist quotes in 30+ year history, of articles, speeches, interviews, etc... It's kinda ridiculous. I just lost all respect for him not because of his slanting of views, but because of the virtually unfounded calls of racism, and antisemitism. You don't just label someone those things on a whim, and the sage wisdom of a third rate website. It's maddening. I have no idea what he's looking for and I've read most of his post, if anything he's looking for the perfect unblemished messiah to waft down from heaven and implement his plan, whatever that is. HE WON'T TELL YOU.

Seriously, Ron Paul, from what I've read, listened to, and have seen, has as close to a perfect "MORAL" record of anyone in politics not perfect but the closest I've seen. Disagree with his policies, or actual beliefs that's fine. I don't even care about his disagreement on policy. But this spewing of racism, and antisemitism, is completely unfounded, unless you are looking for the possible bad and interpreting everything in that light. I fear Sugar would create a nefarious plot about Santa Claus given the opportunity and unfortunately a few would believe it!! Everyone is bad and he seems to look and look until he finds the weakest of evidence to support his position. Context doesn't matter, history doesn't matter. It's a few lines in 30 years that matter that is all a person like that needs, apparently.

At the end of the day the dirt they've dug up most of it is distortion, and the calls of racism are just beyond comprehension. 30+ years and that is the most racist thing they could find. Wow. That beats the shit out of the dirt I could find on every other candidate.

Essentially, I think Sugar is looking for 100% perfection, and really squinting to look at every little thing in the most negative possible light. And sadly a few are listening to him from his perfection pulpit, casting slanders about like they are candy at a parade.

I didn't even really know of Ron Paul(other than a couple passive contributions to articles) before like last feb.... And I've read about everything possible on him sense. Even looking up the evidence given by Ron Paul Bashers. I would abandon my support if it ever held up to scrutiny. And he's still the most HONEST and CONSISTENT candidate, I've ever witnessed(watch his speeches from the early 80's on Google video if you don't believe me), even if I agreed with less of his views, I'd vote for him based on that fact alone. I can't possibly look into him more than I already have and he's no racist. Sorry, that racism claim is a 100% bullshit, and anyone that believes that is a complete, fraud, misinformed, or just a fan of chasing phantoms built by their own imagination. Whichever, only they know the answer.

Layout it out Sugar, what do you want. We're all well aware of what you don't want. Obviously it's not integrity, or character. Is it perfection? Absolute, bloody pristine virginal God endowed perfection. Because that is the standard you are holding people to, and boy when they don't meet it they are the new Satan. I think you should just go get laid and lay off the unprovable, and weak claims.

30 years of written, audio, and video history, a you find a few lines (rather websites you visit found), that possibly could be interpreted as racist, if you ignore context, and now Ron Paul is a racist in your view. Now that is pretty good evidence(much better than the racist claims) that you are the all time leading fucking cynic ever. Meds might help. I'm pretty cynical myself but if we could trade cynicism for bar of gold, my friend you could buy the planet, and I might be able to buy Oregon.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 11/18/2007 9:14:36 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 64

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/18/2007 11:55:16 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
You sure have free on the mind - all the time, it's almost your only argument.

Almost my only argument? Really? You must have a better memory than I do. Help me out here... how many times have I used it?

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 65

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 2:41:54 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

God damn captain..... You're really on a roll here with regard to Ron Paul. Is this an attempt to bait your ole' buddy up here in rural Oregon?

Anyways....I think I was prolly the first to mention many of the Ron Paul detractors. But like I mentioned previously..... there is no such thing as the perfect candidate. Every voter surely has a prioritized list tucked away in their mind as to what's important and direction they'd like to see the country move in /changes they'd like to see made.

My top five priorities are :

1} A complete change in monetary policy { Not to be confused with fiscal or tax policy} A move back to a system similar to that of Bretton Woods, with an organic, fixed parity currency, backed by something of tangible value, printed and controlled completely by the sovereign.

2} A move to a completely non-interventionist position of foreign policy. A policy that reflects further shrinking/downsizing of actual boots on the ground / man power, and a complete end to all theater / combat-related privatization schemes.

3} A move that dissolves the ''Free Market'' as it's currently known and understood. The dissolution of the IMF and a complete pull-out of the World Trade Organization; subsequently terminating our trade positions in NAFTA, CAFTA, GAT and China's ''most favored nation status.''

4} A push for a new amendment in the constitution that FOREVER prohibits both the hypothecation and privatization of our national, physical infrastructure {To be completely defined}

5} The right to a free/no cost college education for every legal citizen.

These policies and /or changes in policy would stop the looting of our middle class /tax-payer-funded infrastructure and help get the country back on track. Ron Paul is keen to this, and hits on three-and-three-quarters cylinders. For that reason, he will most definitely get my vote. ; }

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 11/19/2007 2:57:45 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 66

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 9:48:11 AM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
1} A complete change in monetary policy { Not to be confused with fiscal or tax policy} A move back to a system similar to that of Bretton Woods, with an organic, fixed parity currency, backed by something of tangible value, printed and controlled completely by the sovereign.

I can get behind this. But it won't likley happen in our lifetimes and only in the event of a bloody revolution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
2} A move to a completely non-interventionist position of foreign policy. A policy that reflects further shrinking/downsizing of actual boots on the ground / man power, and a complete end to all theater / combat-related privatization schemes.

This is not going to happen while the military industrial complex we were warned about is in charge. This is the heart and soul of the "lootocracy." Richard Perle is their high priest. Do you expect them to just give it up? Bloody revolution time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
3} A move that dissolves the ''Free Market'' as it's currently known and understood. The dissolution of the IMF and a complete pull-out of the World Trade Organization; subsequently terminating our trade positions in NAFTA, CAFTA, GAT and China's ''most favored nation status.''

I realize that Ron Paul supports some of this also. But again, what is the realistic plan for this to actually happen? It's all pie in the sky because he will be opposed by every other person in DC. It will be the most boring presidency ever. All Ron Paul may ever do is use his Veto stamp. But let's not pretend that getting nothing done is getting anything significant accomplished - they are not equal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
4} A push for a new amendment in the constitution that FOREVER prohibits both the hypothecation and privatization of our national, physical infrastructure {To be completely defined}

I doubt Ron Paul agrees with much of what you might mean here. But what do you mean anyway? I'd be curious to see the details - to be completely defined...

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
5} The right to a free/no cost college education for every legal citizen.

Again, I doubt Ron Paul would support this. He is Dr. No not Mr. "Here take this money."

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 67

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 10:17:48 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Funny, when Dick Morris said that Hillary Clinton called him, "a no good fucking Jew" people didn't believe him because him and Hillary had a "falling out."
So, I guess Dick Morris just made that up?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 68

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 11:08:18 AM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

Popeye, what exactly is your obsession with Hillary about? I don't get it...

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 69

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 1:02:14 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Layout it out Sugar, what do you want. We're all well aware of what you don't want.

Gee, why I can't I be just like Dr. No? Can't I just say "No" to all of the above? I thought such a philosophy would be something you Paul supporters might be able to get behind...

No?

Something like an answer can be found here:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1420262

I have a pet issue. The reality is that nothing will change because America votes toward the center - in other words, they vote for the status quo. And then they wonder why things suck. I stick to single issues because I figure it's at least possible that one fucking thing might go my way politically.

Just...one...fucking...thing...!

I won't hold my breath.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 70

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 3:22:47 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Gee, why I can't I be just like Dr. No? Can't I just say "No" to all of the above? I thought such a philosophy would be something you Paul supporters might be able to get behind...

I have a pet issue. The reality is that nothing will change because America votes toward the center - in other words, they vote for the status quo. And then they wonder why things suck. I stick to single issues because I figure it's at least possible that one fucking thing might go my way politically.

Just...one...fucking...thing...!

I won't hold my breath.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with Dr. Paul. I do have a problem with you representing things incorrectly and then refusing the see that there might be another way to look at it. I also understand that you do not support what Dr. Paul stands for overall...i.e. a drastic reduction in government and a stop to the assumption of powers that are not constitutional. And that is okay too. But you should listen when your objections are countered. Then if you still disagree, disagree with the platform, rather than smearing the man. And state why you disagree. So far you seem to be on board with at least some of his concepts, but you continue to be dismissive because he is unlikely to win, or if he did win, he would not be able to implement any of his platform. That attitude, I would, offer, is voting to maintain the staus quo. I, on the other hand take the view that, at least we would have someonee someone in the white house who will start making a change, and if the people chose this man as president, it would be a pretty strong message to Congress.

Voting for the status quo? The supporters of Ron Paul are so far form the status quo that they are now being accused of terrorism. It is a movement away from the status quo, and that is why so many are running scared.

You're right, SMC. He probably won't mkae it into the White House. Mainly because there are too many people who would rather vote for the candidate from their preferred party that has the best chance of winning. Even if it means that only one of their concerns might (might!) be addressed during the next four years.

*Sigh*

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 71

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 3:48:24 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

I voted for candidates on the fringe for 20 years. Nothing changed.

Of late I have voted closer to center with a single issue as my guide. up until now I usually just voted for a pro-choice candidate as that issue was a reasonable litmus test for a whole host of issues. Now I am voting for Universal Healthcare because if you don't think that issue is holding us back economically then you are just ignoring the fact that the whole rest of the western world already has universal healthcare and employers can just forget about it as a cost of doing business in every single one of those countries.

We can't compete and we are in hock to China up to our eyeballs. Ron Paul stalling for four years won't achieve jack nor shit.

With some interest I watch folks like UtopianRanger express support for the guy. But read what Utopian really did - he used Ron Paul as a kind of blank slate, imposing onto Paul's candidacy a bunch of things Ron Paul will never support (well, or perhaps he was just stating his political desires regardless of what Paul might agree with - but then I didn't get how he tallied his results either). I think a lot of people are doing that, projecting their political wishes onto a guy called Dr. No.

How strange...

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 72

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 4:55:12 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

I think a lot of people are doing that, projecting their political wishes onto a guy called Dr. No.

How strange...

And I think a lot of people are projecting their political wishes on other Republican and Democratic candidates. The sad part is that most of those candidates attempt to read those wishes and focus on specific issues that are hot buttons, and they get voted in based upon those hot buttons. The are feeding the sheeple what they want to hear. *shrug*
I know I am not projecting My political wishes onto a candidate. I am looking and seeing which one is on most of the the same page as I am. Dr. Paul is not catering to the status quo. He is telling it as he believes. If it costs him an opportunity to be int he White House, so be it. For he is not compromising his beliefs in order to win an election. That means a lot to Me. It also helps that his beliefs are in line with Mine. *Smile* This does not mean I am not realistic in noting that everything he would like to do is going to be successful. But it would be a start.
I am sympathetic to your opposition to Dr. Paul. We come from two very different idealogies. I believe in the original intent of our Constitution, personal responsibility and as little government possible. You have a different view. I just hope you can find a candidate that you are pleased enough with that you don't feel like you are voting on only one issue with the assumption that they will fall into line with the rest of your preferences. Because that is truly maintaining the status quo.
End of story...

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 73

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 8:20:35 PM

SugarMyChurro

Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
You have a different view.

No, actually I am probably an even stricter constitutional constructionist in theory than any politician going - probably more than you can imagine.

Where has it gotten me? Fucking nowhere for my entire adult life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I just hope you can find a candidate that you are pleased enough with that you don't feel like you are voting on only one issue with the assumption that they will fall into line with the rest of your preferences. Because that is truly maintaining the status quo.

I have to try something different because we are clearly in a post-constitutional era. It would be true madness to just keep doing the same ineffectual shit.

What I want is simply to get value for my tax money, instead of just handing it over to Bush and his goddamned war-profiteering cronies. Universal healthcare will create parity between the U.S. and the other western nations. It's a solid single issue if there ever was one.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 74

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/19/2007 8:47:32 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
But let's not pretend that getting nothing done is getting anything significant accomplished - they are not equal.

Wonderful! Now if you dont mind do tell me what the last 5 presidents "got Done"?

Oh yeh and while you are on the subject of "bloody revolution:", explain whats wrong with that? From everything I have read our framers seemed to expect it was only a matter of time. Seems to me it would be more honorable to die defending the constitution than to die stealing oil.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/19/2007 8:51:06 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 75

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/20/2007 9:38:36 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Where has it gotten me? Fucking nowhere for my entire adult life.

So then give up and vote for the status quo if you want to. But don't expect us to do the same.

quote:

I have to try something different because we are clearly in a post-constitutional era. It would be true madness to just keep doing the same ineffectual shit.

In my opinion, it's even greater madness to roll over and die.

quote:

What I want is simply to get value for my tax money, instead of just handing it over to Bush and his goddamned war-profiteering cronies.

Ahh... maybe we're finally getting to know what motivates you... more value for your tax dollar.

So you've been voting on the fringe for many years now? Frankly, I'm skeptical. Most of what you've written on these boards indicate that you're another band-aid solution guy; a big-government supporter who prefers to address symptoms instead of causes.

Personally, I think it's sad that you're selling out for another big government carrot dangle that will only further increase its power and bloat, and further increase the dependency of its citizens. But it's your choice.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 76

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/20/2007 9:44:28 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Dr. Paul is not catering to the status quo. He is telling it as he believes. If it costs him an opportunity to be int he White House, so be it. For he is not compromising his beliefs in order to win an election. That means a lot to Me.

Yes, talk about a breath of fresh air. Geez, I'm surprised that more people wouldn't vote for him just on this basis alone!

Makes you wonder what really motivates people, doesn't it?

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 77

RE: The REAL Ron Paul (Just say no!) - 11/20/2007 9:58:11 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corsetgirl

Hi:

Thank you for the information on this person. After hearing a repeated recorded message from his campaign staff on the subject of enforcing gun owner's rights, I felt this was very annoying since he was captalizing on my dad's previous membership of the NRA and he died two years ago!

I bet your dad would be really happy that his money was so well spent, that a candidate is actually running for president to fight for and support the same thing your dad fought for and paid his money to promote. Its to bad he is not here to see it as i am sure he would be smiling ear to ear.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to corsetgirl)

Post #: 78

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