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no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 8:49:04 AM   
greenie


Posts: 579
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		opinion please...
A sub (a novice sub) is being trained by a Dominant and the sub does something to earn punishment. Now the sub really did make a mistake that shouldn't have been made if the sub had been paying attention. The Dominant tells the sub what the punishment will be. Now the sub, of course, doesn't want the punishment but knows that it is deserved so is accepting of said punishment. For days the Dominant reminds the sub that when T/they next see each other that the punishment will take place and tells sub to prepare for it. The day comes along and before the Dominant makes the drive the Dominant again reminds the sub. The Dominant shows up and they spend about 4 hours or so together. Of course the sub doesn't bring up the punishment because the sub doesn't want it to seem they want it or are anxious for it, but is waiting for it to occur none the less. The Dominant doesn't bring it up again either. The end of T/their time together comes and the Dominant leaves.
Now what is up with that? How can a sub look at a Dom the same if the Dom can't even follow through the first time He says a punishment is deserved?
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 8:53:59 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You'd have to ask them really. Maybe they did forget, or couldn't bring themselves to do the deed. Personally I don't think it's very productive to constantly bring up a punishment and delay giving it...however a lot of people get turned on by it.

Maybe they got distracted with everything else, maybe they didn't really know what to do when the time came, maybe there was some miscommunication.

Ask him, talk it out.

(in reply to greenie)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 8:54:56 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Oh Greenie, I suspect it's either a mind phuck with a very patient Dom, or senility is setting in.

Time will tell. . . . (then again you could just jump into the fire and ask) yikes. . . .

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to greenie)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:06:36 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Was the Dom also a novice?

Consistency and enforcement are always important, but it's more important in the initial stage of the relationship, and especially important with a novice on either side of the coin. It is impossible to establish trust without consistent treatment. Should there be consideration of a novice? Of course. The punishment could and should have been something elementary, but it still should have occurred.

Now you have a submissive in doubt about a Dom, in doubt about expected behavior, and in doubt if she's in the middle of playing a game versus something more serious. Not a very strong foundation for even a casual relationship.

(in reply to greenie)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:09:46 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		I agree. Regardless of how the "dom" does NOT want to follow threw with the punnishment. THEY said it was going to be this and such. The submissive knew that and it was clear. The Punnishment is warrented. No Dom likes to punnish but one does what one must. Regardless of personal feelings.
If they have misgivings about the punnishment theyshould not have layed out those condiditons.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to greenie)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:10:19 AM   
femdom4u2besub


Posts: 35
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps the punishment was the anxiety of waiting for the punishment...If you trust that your partner knows what they are doing and I am guessing you do or you wouldnt be their submissive then you need to trust that they know what they are doing with their punishment.

If impatients or expectations happen to be the reason for a punishment I was delivering I would perhaps use this as an unexpected type of lesson...second guessing your Dom's choices makes one wonder...

But perhaps the ladies are right and the thing to do is to ask...I dare say not why the punishment was not inflicted but rather if the punishment that was given was designed to show you where some trust issues are within your submission. But then thats just one opinion and God knows there are as many as there are people.

But my point goes to looking at a thing from a different angle. Damn I must be in a good mood today to disagree with the majority here....living dangerously.

(in reply to Quivver)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:17:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nothing is carved in anyones gravestone here. Who is to say that the punishment is not yet forthcoming? Shall I punish my slave at their convenience? Shall you not consider this greatly? Is someone dictating some 'statute of limitations here'? Is this a democratic relationship?

I know someones mind that works in this fashion...........

I suppose that any number of scenarios can be contrived, if it is a conundrum that perplexes you beyond all explication..........ask; then!

My two.

Ron
edited because I am senile:
Oh, yeah; by god you are paying attention now, no?

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/9/2005 9:22:36 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to femdom4u2besub)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:18:18 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps the punishment was the anxiety of waiting for the punishment...


Agree, and have done that myself. But one element is missing. The sub needed to KNOW that that was the punishment. The transgression had to be addressed and discussed and resolved. That resolution could have been a casual swat on the butt, or a 20 stroke caning, but there would have been no opportunity that the situation was addressed, and as beth looks forward to most, resolved.

Without that communication part the result is confusion as indicated by the OP.

(in reply to femdom4u2besub)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 9:24:26 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It is impossible to establish trust without consistent treatment.


I sooooo agree. If I can not trust a Dominant to follow through with what he tells me he will do....it really doesn't matter if it is in regards to punishment or not. If you tell me that you are going to do something....anything....and then don't, what you have just taught me is that you do not stand behind your word. How does one trust someone who's word means nothing?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 11:06:57 AM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

For days the Dominant reminds the sub that when T/they next see each other that the punishment will take place and tells sub to prepare for it... The end of T/their time together comes and the Dominant leaves.

Laying aside the whole master/slave, domination/submission aspect, we're down to an expectation set and not met. I'd like some feedback about what eventually happened in this scenario, but that's bad juju in any relationship - it's something that you should definitely talk to the other party about, find out what happened and try to regain trust.

quote:

Shall I punish my slave at their convenience?

Not necessarily, but shall you stand by your word? You betcha. I freely admit I don't fully grok the relationships, but a master is just as responsible as a slave when it comes to keeping promises and maintaining trust. Otherwise, you're telling the slave "I don't respect you enough to hold myself to the standards I expect you to maintain", that you won't stand by your word and that they aren't worth your honor. It's a two-edged sword, and something like this cuts coming and going...

quote:

How can a sub look at a Dom the same if the Dom can't even follow through the first time He says a punishment is deserved?

That, and... doesn't it kinda defeat the purpose of training?

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 11:14:25 AM   
greenie


Posts: 579
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		that's exactly my feelings mistoferin!

Plus the Dom said "Monday and don't think you will get out of it. you need to understand that when I set a punishment that I stick to it" If He thought that maybe just the threat of it was enough to teach a lesson, and that might have been all that was really needed, i think He should have said so. To leave one hanging gave the impression that He wasn't strong enough to follow through with the unpleasurable (pleasurable to some lol) side of BDSM. Don't get me wrong as i didn't want to be punished but now i'm not sure i can submit to Him. Now i wonder how far His word would go. What if i had to safeword? Would His promise of always heeding the safeword stick? It's not just a matter of thinking i can get away with disobedience but also how far can i trust His word in general. And no this Dom is not a forum reader so i'm safe there lol.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 11:16:57 AM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		Why aren't you saying this to him?

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to greenie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 11:37:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veav

quote:

For days the Dominant reminds the sub that when T/they next see each other that the punishment will take place and tells sub to prepare for it.

No particular reason to take this out of any context.....
Define next time we meet.

quote:


Laying aside the whole master/slave, domination/submission aspect, we're down to an expectation set and not met.

Set by who? Not met by who?
One persons center is anothers edge.....



quote:

Shall I punish my slave at their convenience?

Not necessarily, but shall you stand by your word? You betcha. I freely admit I don't fully grok the relationships

So long as we understand that this does not mean that I don't stand by my word, in otherwords...there is no linkage of these two ideas.
I simply tried to attribute the best possible outcome to this 'trainer'. Such that there might be an opening of the mind.

But all the other posts here say it best........Communicate, find out, ask.......

Now we hear a little more information in a subsequent post........
Shall I attribute this to lying? No..........
I attribute it to the net and faulty communication as well as hidden agenda.


Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Veav)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 12:12:53 PM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Define next time we meet.

The... next time we meet. }:D

quote:

Laying aside the whole master/slave, domination/submission aspect, we're down to an expectation set and not met.
quote:

Set by who? Not met by who?
One persons center is anothers edge.....

This is true, and although that level of mindplay isn't my thing, I'm not trying to say it's never appropriate. In this particular case, though - I was reacting to this specific event, not such things as a whole.

quote:

Shall I punish my slave at their convenience?
quote:

Not necessarily, but shall you stand by your word? You betcha. I freely admit I don't fully grok the relationships

So long as we understand that this does not mean that I don't stand by my word, in otherwords...there is no linkage of these two ideas.
I simply tried to attribute the best possible outcome to this 'trainer'. Such that there might be an opening of the mind.

Surely. My posts weren't directed at you personally, and I apologize if they could be parsed that way - I was giving feedback on the situation that started this thread, and why I felt the possibility of mind games would be either unlikely or inappropriate under the circumstances. Whether or not I think it's a positive outcome is a topic for another thread, ne?

quote:

But all the other posts here say it best........Communicate, find out, ask.......

Righteous.

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 12:30:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, no, no, no, Veav. I took no umbrage or personal affront in the comments you made.

We can put to bed any apologies or swords. LOL

The meatball psychiatry and medicine on this board is room enough for misunderstandings.

Well Met,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Veav)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 12:31:48 PM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		I can't speak for others.

But if I promise a reward or consequence-it happens.

(in reply to greenie)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 12:33:12 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Why aren't you saying this to him?


That is the best answer you have gotten so far in this thread. The lifestyle or any relationship is about communication. The only way for you to find out what was in his mind was to ask.
Whether he wants to punish or not. Or making you wait is part of the punishment.
Only he knows. Depending on the dominant all will do something a little bit different. Depending on the control they hold over the submissive all will do something a little bit different.
Perhaps he could not waste the short time you had to punish? Dunno, none of us can answer for you only he can.

(in reply to Veav)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 1:47:12 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Kinkypupper

No Dom likes to punnish .....


Now that's funnny.



As for the original post, if your notion of how things should be includes an insistence that your partner conduct himself according to your expectations in a time frame of your choosing, well, maybe you should trade your collar for a leash.

Noah


(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 3:50:15 PM   
greenie


Posts: 579
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		No desire to hold a leash ty.
i'm sorry if it offends you, or anyone else, that i felt a certain amount of letdown that He couldn't stand behind what he threatened. W/we discussed in the beginning what i needed in a Dom and what He needed in a sub. i specifically mentioned that one of the things that prevented me from being in a vanilla relationship was that the men let me push and never pushed back, the old "give 'em an inch they'll take a mile" adage. i now feel that i would be allowed to get away with certain things. i don't like the feeling at all. i haven't been able to communicate with Him since He left yesterday because i went straight to bed when He left and He was at work already when i got up this morning but i had these feelings that i needed to talk out with O/others. When i have issues or feelings on something they tend to fester if i don't talk them out and brainstorm them with others, then i over analyze and twist them around so i needed to bring this here to Y/you all in the hopes of brainstorming. i'm sorry if this bothered any of Y/you. Wow! Now i wonder if i should ever post an issue here again.

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: no punishment for the novice - 8/9/2005 3:54:59 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greenie

No desire to hold a leash ty.
i'm sorry if it offends you, or anyone else, that i felt a certain amount of letdown that He couldn't stand behind what he threatened. W/we discussed in the beginning what i needed in a Dom and what He needed in a sub. i specifically mentioned that one of the things that prevented me from being in a vanilla relationship was that the men let me push and never pushed back, the old "give 'em an inch they'll take a mile" adage. i now feel that i would be allowed to get away with certain things. i don't like the feeling at all. i haven't been able to communicate with Him since He left yesterday because i went straight to bed when He left and He was at work already when i got up this morning but i had these feelings that i needed to talk out with O/others. When i have issues or feelings on something they tend to fester if i don't talk them out and brainstorm them with others, then i over analyze and twist them around so i needed to bring this here to Y/you all in the hopes of brainstorming. i'm sorry if this bothered any of Y/you. Wow! Now i wonder if i should ever post an issue here again.

And we brainstormed and we twisted them around and overanalyzed them with you.

Do not let this discourage you. You don't have to take every word here you read to heart.

Keep posting and use your common sense.

Good luck,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to greenie)
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