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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 5:50:39 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: completenz

hi
with you and windchymes here and just wanted to add...
Humiliation is not neccessarily a part of this lifestyle. It is something that neither C or i have any interest in.
i hope you find the right one for you, i do not feel this guy is it.
good luck
c


Agree with all of the above, especially that his behavior was totally boorish when you told him you are not into sharing. Unless you expressly said, Gee I get so turned on by hearing about other's encounters, this was incredibly stupid of him and if he was just testing you, then it was HE who failed the test.

(in reply to completenz)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 6:03:30 PM   
Requiempoet


Posts: 29
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: New York
Status: offline 		i don't really know if this would sound right so i do apologize, but if they were working towards real time...maybe the no encounters exclusvity was a safety factor of sorts...no viruses or anything like that. Maybe I'm wrong?

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 6:10:09 PM   
Bobbie9395


Posts: 38
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

  So you are chatting online to see if it leads to a real time meet and you are insisting that it be monogomous on both ends?   IMO the rules go both ways AFTER it becomes real time.

No, no, I'm not insisting we be monogomous if we're NOT in an online D/s relationship, as he had stated we were.  I wouldn't expect that.  But, since he stated we are in a relationship, I expect him to respect my hard limits.  Did I say that right?  Does that make sense?  And, I DO appreciate that you took the time to respond. 

(in reply to Squeakers)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 6:26:16 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		There's no cut and dried answer. If you find it incredibly rude for him to spend a date with you telling you all about another woman he's dating (and online or not that is what he did) then you can't possibly respect him.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I'm exclusive. Now I wouldn't ask this if all we were doing was discussing movies and gardening, but once it's moved into a sexual arena I do expect it.

But his absolute and deliberate rudeness at going on at length about one of his other subs makes me suspicious that he isn't really going to respect your hard limit of monogamy. That instead, he'll wait until you're collared to tell you that he's the dom and he makes all the rules which includes breaking this.

The other thing that makes me wince is that he expects you to prove yourself worthy of meeting him in real life, but you don't mention how he proposes to prove worthy of you. Personally his lack of manners says to me he isn't and you could do a lot better.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 7:00:52 PM   
secretagentgirl


Posts: 70
Joined: 9/16/2007
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quote:

There's no cut and dried answer. If you find it incredibly rude for him to spend a date with you telling you all about another woman he's dating (and online or not that is what he did) then you can't possibly respect him.


I agree with this.  Who care what the rules were?  Part of the process of meeting someone online is seeing how you interact.  I would personally find it annoying to hear the details of another encounter that had just happened.  I don't mind "one time I did X with this woman and ...."  But this summer I was corresponding with a guy.  There was no discussion of exclusivity or hard limits and he launched into a blow by blow description of his encounter the night before, even referring to the woman's breasts as her "cans."   That is just not the type of person for me.  And the fact that you'd mentioned it as a hard limit makes it even more annoying, in my opinion.

Ultimately, rules don't matter for you.  It's just up to you.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 7:50:57 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		IF BOTH of you have agreed to respect hard limits and IF BOTH of you agreed that you were in a committed Ds relationship, then I'd say he broke the rules. But, if you ASSUMED the respect would be there and you ASSUMED that you were in a committed Ds relationship, then you made incorrect assumptions. Don't assume anything. Be blunt with men. Don't rely on subtleties, hints and impressions. Many men simply don't communicate that way. Ask him up front if he feels that the two of you are in a committed Ds relationship. If yes, then ask if he's prepared to respect your hard limits. If he says yes, explain once again that your hard limit is that you won't share...and that means online, too. Then see what he says.

You have to right to have any limits you wish...if he's unwilling to meet this need, he's not the right match.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to Bobbie9395)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 8:04:52 PM   
MrSpectacular


Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think the crux of the question is whether you both mutually agreed you were in this online relationship and that you both understood what your hard limits were. For you it may have been clear - for him not so. 

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Yes I am Spectacular and they are real!

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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/18/2007 8:13:14 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear B.-
 
I personal wouldn't even consider exclusivity with someone I had not actually met in person- not would I expect it from them. You are not alone in thinking differently, as I have found in the past, to my surprise...
 
There really is no such thing as "the Lifestyle", no unified set of rules that we all adhere to. Heck, I think it's rare when we all agree on a basic definition for something. You will have to make your own call, but I think being hurt maybe ok, but feeling betrayed is not realistic.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence
I have to agree with this synopsis..however I wish to add, that IMO, that this right now ,is no relationship ,whatsoever!...My instincts are saying (mind you they could be wrong)that he stated this was a relationship in order to mark his territory so to speak and to have you jump through hoops for him..and essentially his calling and telling you of his activities was to gauge your reactions and see how far your monogomal convictions stayed in place. He played the relationship card but also played on the fact that thus far you had not earned a meeting with him so that his activities could not be put within the realm of the agreements discussed...This may be very unsubly of me to say..but I will say nonetheless..If this horse hockey had been played on me I would of simply stated.."oh!,,well since you feel for now that it is ok to go out with sub susie this past weekend, then you should have no issue with my going out with Dominant Joe this weekend!..of course when that kind of thing is played one pretty much knows the relationship is doomed and might as well say adios..Tempting

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(in reply to topcat)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 4:11:50 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbie9395

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

So you are chatting online to see if it leads to a real time meet and you are insisting that it be monogomous on both ends?   IMO the rules go both ways AFTER it becomes real time.

No, no, I'm not insisting we be monogomous if we're NOT in an online D/s relationship, as he had stated we were.  I wouldn't expect that.  But, since he stated we are in a relationship, I expect him to respect my hard limits.  Did I say that right?  Does that make sense?  And, I DO appreciate that you took the time to respond. 



your response here is what made it clear to me.  HE stated that you were in a relationship.  he was aware of your limits (being exclusive to one another).

that makes it a reasonable assumption on your part that if you are in a relationship working towards realtime, that he will not be pursuing others, much less having encounters. 

kitten

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 5:31:24 AM   
exquisitefeline1


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbie9395

Good afternoon. I have been communicating with a DOM with whom I have begun an online D/s relationship. My responses to the tasks he assigns me, my ability to obey, and my attitude will determine if we will actually meet. He is totally aware that one of my hard limits is that I do not share in any shape or form. I do not share myself and I will not share him. Please let me say, I DO know that humiliation is part of the lifestyle and I have no problem with that, as long as my hard limits and his hard limits are respected. He called me Friday evening and proceeded to relate to me every detail of an encounter he had with someone a couple of days earlier. He had contacted her online last weekend. At this point, since we have NOT met, but considering the fact that he has stated we have begun an online D/s relationship, are we expected to respect each other's hard limits? He's angry with me because I became a bit upset about his encounter. All I'm asking is shouldn't the respect go both ways? If we ARE in this online relationlship, I need to respond to him as if I were his sub. Isn't the reverse true? He needs to respect my hard limits, which we had previously discussed. I hope I've explained this in an understandable way. Your responses will determine what kind, if any, apology he gets from me. If I'm wrong, I have absolutely no problem with apologizing. I am totaly new to this lifestyle and want to do the right thing.



Whatever is happening online will only intensify when you meet. Do you really think this person suits you, you sound hesitant to me. Trust your instincts. Nothing is right or wrong, it is about what you want from a relationship, in any shape or form, if you want respect, you will find someone who can respect you. You feel disrespected and betrayed, go with what you feel, you have a right to express that you are upset, if you are, and any MAN or DOM, would know how to communicate appropriately. Anger is not a good sign, he is shedding his lack of integrity to make you feel bad, and like you have done something wrong. You have nothing to apologize for by expressing your feelings, unless it is in his "Hard limits" that he can do whatever he wants and you can not feel anything or at least not express it... he doesn't sound like a very nice person to me, i would say have some self respect and get out while you can.

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
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RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 7:06:15 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

My only question is- did he agree to respect those limits and conditions?  To me it doesn't matter if it was online or who would do what- in YOUR relationships what matters is what you BOTH agree to uphold in expectations of behavior towards eachother.


I definately agree with LA on this issue. The only thing in question was if he violated an agreement that you both understood and agreed to uphold. If he did - then don't look at the red flag and try and change the color. If he didn't - then serious communication regarding both of your understanding of limits and agreements is in order.

Best of luck to you!

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 8:10:27 AM   
slaveelle


Posts: 116
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I would not expect exclusivity from a stranger whom I'd not yet met.  


I'd not offer exclusivity or submission to a stranger I'd not yet met either...but what do I know?


Ditto!!!

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"No bond is stronger than that of the Beast"

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 8:10:51 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloudz

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

My only question is- did he agree to respect those limits and conditions?  To me it doesn't matter if it was online or who would do what- in YOUR relationships what matters is what you BOTH agree to uphold in expectations of behavior towards eachother.


I definately agree with LA on this issue. The only thing in question was if he violated an agreement that you both understood and agreed to uphold. If he did - then don't look at the red flag and try and change the color. If he didn't - then serious communication regarding both of your understanding of limits and agreements is in order.

Best of luck to you!


I echo this but only if some time has gone by and it was clearly stated not just inferred. Personally I believe the default line would that until I met someone in real time that I would not expect them to put all their eggs in one basket or ignore needs and they would expect the same from me.

If this online only had not been going on for awhile and had no date fairly firm on going to real time I think it is way too much to ask to have someone to be immediately loyal.

Sorry but to me there is an exponential difference between seeking online for a real time relationship and let’s play online and see where it heads. The latter just reeks of no commitment so why should the other be committed.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Cloudz)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 8:55:24 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbie9395

Good afternoon. I have been communicating with a DOM with whom I have begun an online D/s relationship. My responses to the tasks he assigns me, my ability to obey, and my attitude will determine if we will actually meet. He is totally aware that one of my hard limits is that I do not share in any shape or form. I do not share myself and I will not share him. Please let me say, I DO know that humiliation is part of the lifestyle and I have no problem with that, as long as my hard limits and his hard limits are respected. He called me Friday evening and proceeded to relate to me every detail of an encounter he had with someone a couple of days earlier. He had contacted her online last weekend. At this point, since we have NOT met, but considering the fact that he has stated we have begun an online D/s relationship, are we expected to respect each other's hard limits? He's angry with me because I became a bit upset about his encounter. All I'm asking is shouldn't the respect go both ways? If we ARE in this online relationlship, I need to respond to him as if I were his sub. Isn't the reverse true? He needs to respect my hard limits, which we had previously discussed. I hope I've explained this in an understandable way. Your responses will determine what kind, if any, apology he gets from me. If I'm wrong, I have absolutely no problem with apologizing. I am totaly new to this lifestyle and want to do the right thing.


Our responses will determine nothing. You--and only you--can decide if an apology is warranted. Similarly, you--and only you---will decide if this online relationship will continue.

What any of us would do is irrelevant. The only question at hand is what are you going to do.

Choice. That is the essence of every lifestyle.

_____________________________



(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 12:06:21 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

I have been communicating with a DOM with whom I have begun an online D/s relationship. My responses to the tasks he assigns me, my ability to obey, and my attitude will determine if we will actually meet.

Start of a relationship where you are in effect "under consideration" ( I know a term many others do not like seeing used , but basically like dating first to determine if the two of you are compatible before a commitment is made to a more permanent relationship for example going steady in a vanilla type relationship, so still free to see, seek  others at this point.  I do feel his going into detail about his other encounter innapropriate and is crass and not what I would personally call humilation  but different people will and do have different opinions, in the end the decision is yours and you have to go with your gut feelings, just because he is a Dom does not mean he is the right one for you, that is something only you can determine


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 12:40:25 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Do the rules go both ways?  Depends on the dominant and submissive involved.  Now, with that caveat in place, my own opinion is that whatever rules are agreed to are what are in place.  As MasterFireMa'am said, you cannot assume anything but you can state right out what you will do and what you expect from him AND you have the right to ask him whether or not he intends to respect your hard limits while you are carrying through all the other things you have agreed to do for him. 

I am not sure I would call his relating to you of his experience with another submissive as humiliating...some might view it as crass, others might view it as a way to titillate a submissive who has expressed interest in hearing about such encounters but personally, I don't see it as humiliation.  But...that's just me.  I do see it in this instance as an instance of crudity and an arrogance in displaying that, while he expects you to live up to his stated expectations, he can behave in any way he chooses.  If it is true that everything becomes "more real" when you are dealing with someone in real life, then this could be a huge red flag.

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 4:42:21 PM   
MissAnthropic


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline 		It doesnt matter what the rules are, it matter how you feel, it appears to me that your talking about a breach of trust, and if you can't trust your Dom......

IMHO this thing we do, Dom/sub is ALL about trust. If you look inside yourself and feel you wont be able to have that leap of faith with him as your partner, then you should move on. It not something you can get back, recreate or have without foundations.

jess


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 7:09:18 PM   
Bobbie9395


Posts: 38
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I am more grateful than I can express with the responses you've all posted.  You have given this old newbie lots of food for thought, and you didn't treat me like I was stupid.  I appreciate the thought you obviously all gave my question.  I think, at this point, he realizes he shares part of the blame for the misunderstanding, even though he did not come right out and say it.  I DID apologize FINALLY today.  But, what I said was, "I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding."  I did NOT apologize for feeling the way I did or for saying what I said.  We'll see what happens from this point on.   But, I AM being more cautious.  Thank you, again, and I hope you all have a very safe and happy Thanksgiving.

(in reply to MissAnthropic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 8:28:55 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, a lot of "masters" do not seem to understand that the rules and structures that they create-also apply to themselves. Authority without restraint and direction-are only ludicrous............
 
  If this man is angry that he is being called on his lack of self control,-be glad that he has shown his true colors BEFORE going to real life. If he cannot admit that he has made a mistake and show some humility over it-you have a little boy, not a man.
 
Move on-and find someone worthy-who can keep an agreement.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: DON'T THE RULES GO BOTH WAYS? - 11/19/2007 11:40:27 PM   
feralkyttin


Posts: 182
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		    The rules DO go both ways.  What the rules are is subject to change.  Whether or not you set your own rules and abide by them is your choice and responsibility.  In the end, you are responsible for you, unless you hand that responsibility to someone else.  All I can say for now is to choose wisely and I hope my opinion is welcome as well as helpful.


meesha / feral kyttin

(in reply to Bobbie9395)
Profile   Post #: 40
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