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RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 9:35:41 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: debbiesubofsirdo

I am new here and I dont know the right words to say but I will try, my DOM. hasnt collared me  yet , he keeps saying it will be soon. but its been a year and maybe thats normal I dont know but I know I need to be owned I feel like its because he is waiting for someone better and that I am just a stop gap till he finds her. I yearn to be owned , I love him so much and I know he doesnt love me he tells me that,  he doesnt lie to me about it. I try not to love him but I am a sub and I love the one in control of me.  I want to be owned by him. but somehow I feel he is just using me till something better comes along,  I am unhappy and depressed about it.  should a sub expect her Master to love her in some way?  how long does it take for most Dom's to know its time to collar the subs? 


I don't think there is a usual time. Some people collar within six months, others wait six years. Now, if you should expect love or not is entirely dependent on what you want. I knew that I could not be happy in a relationship without love so I was found someone who was open to that. If it hadn't happened, we probably would have parted ways.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 10:11:53 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: debbiesubofsirdo

I am new here and I dont know the right words to say but I will try, my DOM. hasnt collared me  yet , he keeps saying it will be soon. but its been a year and maybe thats normal I dont know but I know I need to be owned I feel like its because he is waiting for someone better and that I am just a stop gap till he finds her.  I yearn to be owned , I love him so much and I know he doesnt love me he tells me that,  he doesnt lie to me about it. I try not to love him but I am a sub and I love the one in control of me.  I want to be owned by him. but somehow I feel he is just using me till something better comes along,  I am unhappy and depressed about it.  should a sub expect her Master to love her in some way?  how long does it take for most Dom's to know its time to collar the subs? 


In my case it was until he trusted in my trust in him, and until  my submission to him was a higher priority to me than wearing a collar. 

From what you have written, I believe you do not trust him, nor do I believe you are putting your submission to him as a higher priority than your desire to wear a collar.  I do not know the dynamics of your situation, but you may, unfortunately, be creating your own delay.

As for expecting to be loved...no, I do not place such expectations on my Master.  In fact, it was very important to me from the start, to tell him, "I will never ask you to love me."  If he was to love me, I needed it to be genuine and come from him, unsolicited by me.  All I wanted was to love him, and for him to accept my love the way I needed to express it.  He did come to love me, but his love was not my goal of my slavery to him.

I do wish you the best, and hope you find your peace.

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 11:00:12 PM   
KashmirKitten


Posts: 67
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		To the OP, all i can say is bless your heart. You are a beautiful girl who deserves to be loved in return, everyone is deserving of love. D/s or not.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 11:09:53 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Debbie, 

Do you wake each day with more or less bounciness?  (Bounciness is my word for optimism, confidence and joy.)  It seems to me like he is eroding your bounciness, and in my own experience, if a relationship is eroding your bounciness, it is time to leave.

I was in a relationship that wasn't right and it took me a year to let it go.  It was a wonderful gift he gave me, the strength to realize I was beautiful enough and loveable enough that I could find someone who was actually right for me.

But I also realized that I learned to endure things that were not healthy for me.  There are places I can't go right now, I'll have to relearn, because things were just not right for me. 

I also realized that I have so much more to offer the next person.  I'm learning to be strong in a way that cherishes my vulnerabilities and doesn't just pretend that I've never been hurt.  I open more deeply.  I connect more vitally.  And I've become much more picky because it will simply never work if part of me is compromising on one of the big things.  (I've narrowed it down to 3 must-haves--it isn't like I have a list a mile long.  But those must-haves are pretty damn big for me.)

I have no doubt that, should you decide to move on, you will find what you are looking for.  Now, chances are there will be ways that this was better that you just took for granted and it will have its own set of difficulties, but you will find someone to cherish and own you.

(in reply to MrSpectacular)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 11:12:18 PM   
Aceton


Posts: 97
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		This would be the problem with following your heart. Honestly I think some of the most mature and best decisions come when you ignore the screeching of a heart in love, and this is from a hopeless romantic. Clearly you're unhappy. If you think you're being used, you're probably right. It sounds like you already know what you need to do, but your love keeps you in a bad place.

Love can just as quickly chain you as it can set you free.

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: should you expect love back - 11/18/2007 11:23:43 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Someone in another thread some time ago said this, and it sums it all up quite succinctly:

Never make someone a priority who makes you an option.

I think that should be needlepointed on a pillow and given out at birth.

(in reply to Aceton)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 3:24:40 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: debbiesubofsirdo

I am new here and I dont know the right words to say but I will try, my DOM. hasnt collared me  yet , he keeps saying it will be soon. but its been a year and maybe thats normal I dont know but I know I need to be owned I feel like its because he is waiting for someone better and that I am just a stop gap till he finds her.  I yearn to be owned , I love him so much and I know he doesnt love me he tells me that,  he doesnt lie to me about it. I try not to love him but I am a sub and I love the one in control of me.  I want to be owned by him. but somehow I feel he is just using me till something better comes along,  I am unhappy and depressed about it.  should a sub expect her Master to love her in some way?  how long does it take for most Dom's to know its time to collar the subs? 


tis the same as any other relationship.  i dont know why we s-types keep asking the same question, i really dont.

yes, you have the right to be loved.  dominant does NOT equal heartless.  no, not all dominants love their subs in a typical romantic fashion....nor do all submissives WANT to be loved like that.

as someone else said, some dominants do not collar.  ever.   nope, nada, nothing.  but that should have been covered when you were first talking, you know?  just because *you* need something, doesnt mean that *he* needs it also.

when i was looking, i was clear about some of the things i want/need.  love is one of those things.  affection is one of those things.  knowing EXACTLY where i stand is one of those things.  being collared, for me, is a good thing, but if i feel secure about my place in Daddy's life, its not absolutely necessary.  am i thrilled that he did collar me? yep.  wouldnt change it for the world.

maybe its time to sit down with yourself, write down the pros and cons of being in this relationship, and see if the happiness you get outweighs the sadness you feel about him not loving you and you not feeling secure about your position.

cause at the end of the day...you're the one who has to live with it, no one else.

kitten

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 5:51:45 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

I feel like its because he is waiting for someone better and that I am just a stop gap till he finds her.
somehow I feel he is just using me till something better comes along, 

Has he told you this? Have you tried discussing it with him? You may be right and that is what he is doing or you may just be being insecure about something that really isn't an issue. Talk to him would be my advice. If he has told you the truth about other things chances are he will about this.
 
quote:

I need to be owned
I yearn to be owned
I want to be owned by him.

Are you sure you want to be owned by him? Or is it just the desire to be owned is so strong you are having a case of rose tinted glasses? If you need love back, which it appears you do, and you doubt his motives for being with you maybe this isn't the man for you.
 
quote:

I try not to love him but I am a sub and I love the one in control of me. 

Strange choice of words ! Are you sure you love him and not the control he has over you?
 
quote:

should a sub expect her Master to love her in some way?

No, want it, need it, crave it - yes. Expect - no.
 
quote:

how long does it take for most Dom's to know its time to collar the subs?

I wouldn't think there is a norm. When it feels right i guess.

From what you have stated here i really don't think you are getting what you need from this relationship and really think you should consider moving on and finding someone who can fulfill your needs.

quote:

Latexbaby.  YES  one that gives and does not get back their cup will run empty of energy. They will die a slow emotional death

Really? What about those of us who don't need their Doms love in return? See there are many forms of love, i for example love Sir but i am not in love with Him. Does He love me? Nope and i really don't care. My personal cup has never been so full of energy and i certainly am not emotionally dieing a slow death.
 
quote:

Serenitee. We’re submissives but we’re still human and love is an important part of submission, how can you submit to someone who doesn’t appreciate you or love you?

It is? For you maybe, others, maybe not so much or not at all. Just because you are not loved does not make you unappreciated.
 
quote:

Latexbaby. why would anyone want to be in a none loving relationship. How Stupid is that. 

Hmm let me see!! Maybe because they want to be and they are happy and fulfilled. As for stupidity, well i think sweeping statements about others feelings are pretty stupid.
 


 
 



_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 6:13:47 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		you are just confuzzled  but it will always catch up with you
yep like a slow frieght train.  One Day WHam you will be thinking wtf have i been doing. Been missing out on something very big
shrugs But that is something life will have to show you.Alot of times you  can not see something when your inn it

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 6:15:32 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If after a year, you aren't getting what you need, the odds are you never will. If you feel that he's just stringing you along, then your feelings aren't going to change. Even if he's not looking for someone else, he isn't looking for the kind of connection you need to be happy in a relationship.

Only you can decide if you are getting enough from the relationship to stay in it for more time, or if what you are not getting outweighs what you are.

Next time, make it clear upfront that you want and need it all, and don't make someone else a priority who only makes you an option.

(in reply to MrSpectacular)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 6:20:21 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you are just confuzzled  but it will always catch up with you
yep like a slow frieght train.  One Day WHam you will be thinking wtf have i been doing. Been missing out on something very big
shrugs But that is something life will have to show you.Alot of times you  can not see something when your inn it


With respect, who are you to say i'm confused?
Also with respect a lot of times you cannot see something when you are NOT in it either.
 

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 6:45:47 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: debbiesubofsirdo

I am new here and I dont know the right words to say but I will try, my DOM. hasnt collared me  yet , he keeps saying it will be soon. but its been a year and maybe thats normal I dont know but I know I need to be owned I feel like its because he is waiting for someone better and that I am just a stop gap till he finds her.  I yearn to be owned , I love him so much and I know he doesnt love me he tells me that,  he doesnt lie to me about it. I try not to love him but I am a sub and I love the one in control of me.  I want to be owned by him. but somehow I feel he is just using me till something better comes along,  I am unhappy and depressed about it.  should a sub expect her Master to love her in some way?  how long does it take for most Dom's to know its time to collar the subs? 


My comments, just answering the questions and no more.
1-Nope, love has zero to do with some D/S relationships, its about the power exchange and service, thats it.This does not characterize all D/S relationships but love is not required to have a sucesful ad healthy M/S interaction. My return question would be, "What do you need to have a succesful M/S relationship?"
If love is part of it, you have a problem here.
2- I respect people more who wait a while to collar. For me, and this is just me, collaring is a serious commitment, not quite marraige, but not far from it either.Each dominant has their own timetable, its none of my business how long your dominants is nor would I comment even if I did know it.In many ways a collar is similar to a wedding ring, it is an external symbol to show to the world, but it is just that, a symbol, reflective of a decision that two (or more) people have made in their hearts long ago. The real collar is in your mind, body and soul.
   One thing I have watched over the years is a tendency for people to rush into relationships, get collared quickly, then wonder how things could go wrong. So with that thought in mind, and keepin a sideway eye on the trend of meeting someone today, moving in tomorrow, collared on thursday in a "life" ceremony, I'd say its refreshing to see someone who takes a little time and is at least honest about things.

(in reply to debbiesubofsirdo)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 7:00:13 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Quick reply:

It was just recently that R told me he loved me. I have been in his collar almost a decade so it was many years of me loving him and him caring for me but not loving me. If the relationship is exceptional overall minus that one thing, I suggest you consider if being loved but having other areas not be so good is worth it..that could happen. You could end up loved in a relationship that isn't exceptional overall. I chose to accept that I could not make him love me, but he was wonderful to myself and my little guy. Our relationship was so incredible that I could live without being loved by him. Now he loves me too..now I have it all..so it was absolutely worth it to wait almost 8 years for him to love me. It isn't an easy call to make but there is no deadline on love..you can't make yourself feel it or make someone else feel it. In our case he wasn't intentionally doing it, it was just a very long time before he developed those feelings for me.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 7:33:18 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		you can not find balance in emptiness  if you do you are just settling. I do not know about anyone else  ds or any relationship is an investment i want my return on my investment.  It is called balance with out it your just spinning your wheels. Stockhome syndrom follows those same kinda of ideas  i love them but they do not love me waiting for anything for approval. Kinda of sad really how empty that must be. alaska must be warmer compared to a cold relationshp like those. Live and burn

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 7:40:07 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Latex... Not everyone needs to be in the romantic love relationship like you do. Those who don't; are not lacking or settling for less than what you think they deserve.

Some NEED to be in a relationship where love is exchanged. Some DO NOT NEED the same. Relationships can and do survive the test of time where neither partner feels such an emotion for the other.

No one outside a relationship can decide if those within it are missing something or not.

Like Chewsie just said... I was in a relationship for more than 10 years... yes I loved him... but no, he did not return it. It did not make the relationship less. I knew going in that he was incapable of feeling that emotion for me and I accepted it simply because well... I am selfish and I wanted him

That is not to say that everyone would be happy in such a relationship; only that some do not need it to continue.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 7:51:09 AM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		~FR~

If love is one of the things you need to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship, then it's up to you to find the one who matches you and loves you in return. Just because you love someone is no guarantee they love you, nor is it required they love you if you love them. Find what fits. Decide if you can be happy and fulfilled as things are now or if you need to move on and in time find what actually will fulfill you.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 8:08:52 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Thats a remarkably sanctimonious opinion. Just because you can't find balance in a relationship without love,who is to say thats not exactly what someone else desires.There are many who seek precisely what she describes.
And how could this cause stockholm syndrome anyhow?
It doesn't sound as if she is being kept without her will, that she is suffering grave physical and emotional abuse.
This is D/S, one serves, one masters. The end.Well, unless its more than one but that numbers, not the ideal.All the other stuff is often secondary.
Many people find joy merely in service, the master reciprocates in a variety of ways, love is just one of those options. It can also be discipline, accountability, consistency or just being there.

Lets be very clear here, love is a word lots of people throw around, sometimes quite quickly. It is used as a weapon as much as it is used as a kindness, in all wolds, not just BDSM, not just vanilla. It can be used as a tool to shackle another just as it can be used to set someone free.And God knows how many use it as a lever for manipulation and guilt. The things that can be done in the name of love are often horrifying.

To me, and this is just me, love is an action. Its a state of being. I can tell you that I love you, but if my actions don't show it, then I am lying. Conversly I can never tell someone that I love them, but all my actions say that I take say  I do. That is love.

Here is some experience for you. I had a submissive who was in love with me. I loved her in my own way, just not in the same romantic way that she felt. I loved her for who she was, for her kind heart, for her wit and her wisdom, but I was not in love with her.Not wanting to be a liar or a manipulator I never once in over a year said I love you.
But
every time she had a problem I was there. When she needed help with things I was there. At late night when she needed a shoulder to cry on I was there. When she asked for guidance on things I gave it to her straight, because I cared more about her well being than her feelings. I put her feet to the fire and watched her grow. I taught her modern literature,and shared philosophies of life. She was a better woman for having known me. I shared who I was in completeness, good and bad and opened my life up to her and she did the same.We were confidants, best friends, allies,Master/slave all in one. But I never said I loved her.
Is that empty?
Is it devoid of emotion?
Is she getting "no return on her investment?"
Is it colder than Alaska?
I don't think so.Love is not the words that I say, people lie all the time. Love is the actions that I take. Watch my feet, they tell the truth of me.

< Message edited by Kana -- 11/19/2007 8:10:52 AM >

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 8:22:53 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
Our relationship was so incredible that I could live without being loved by him. Now he loves me too..now I have it all..so it was absolutely worth it to wait almost 8 years for him to love me. It isn't an easy call to make but there is no deadline on love..you can't make yourself feel it or make someone else feel it. In our case he wasn't intentionally doing it, it was just a very long time before he developed those feelings for me.

I've been reading your posts and enjoying them since I joined this site, Chewsie.  I'm happy for you that this new development has occurred.  I'm really curious though, if you don't mind my asking, has R talked with you at all about why he now has developed feelings of love?  I mean, it's clear he has been great to you and your son for years and cared for you both but you say he didn't "love" you.  Now he tells you that he does love you.  That's wonderful but it makes me wonder what changed and why it took so long to change.   I'm sure you were curious about that as well and I was just wondering if he gave you any details.  If that's too nosey, I apologize.  I'm just happy for you and very interested in the change from not loving to loving.  Thanks and I hope you take no offense to my asking................luci 

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 8:47:49 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Quick reply:

It was just recently that R told me he loved me. I have been in his collar almost a decade so it was many years of me loving him and him caring for me but not loving me. If the relationship is exceptional overall minus that one thing, I suggest you consider if being loved but having other areas not be so good is worth it..that could happen. You could end up loved in a relationship that isn't exceptional overall. I chose to accept that I could not make him love me, but he was wonderful to myself and my little guy. Our relationship was so incredible that I could live without being loved by him. Now he loves me too..now I have it all..so it was absolutely worth it to wait almost 8 years for him to love me. It isn't an easy call to make but there is no deadline on love..you can't make yourself feel it or make someone else feel it. In our case he wasn't intentionally doing it, it was just a very long time before he developed those feelings for me.


I think this points out some important ideas that I personally find quite freeing.

First, the English word "love" is a really huge word but we use it often in a limited fashion. As you describe R I'd say he did love you but maybe he wasn't in a romantic love until now or maybe for him it was simply a matter of time and trust that had to develop before he felt comfortable with the word.

Secondly Ds and SM isn't necessarily about love -- the romantic kind or even the sexual kind. For every person who does BDSM there are a variety of motivations, goals, and desires. Add into that all the mundane things that we must do in our lives and I can fully understand finding a great match minus a few things. My husband and I do not match 100% but I think we both feel we'd be complete fools to leave each other. My slave and I do not match 100% but again we'd be fools to leave the wonderful family we have now.

Love can and is expressed in a variety of ways. Words are only one part of that. In fact, many folks can say the words but by their actions demonstrate loudly and clearly that they could not care less about the person they claim to love.

When words match actions -- Great.

Which means more to you? (the "you" here is generic)

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 11/19/2007 8:52:05 AM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: should you expect love back - 11/19/2007 11:22:12 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Luci,

I don't mind you asking :). I admit to not being a very curious person by nature so I have taken it in stride..haven't come down off the cloud I have been on for over a month now since he said it. My best estimate would be the maturation of our relationship, his deciding to encourage the deepening of a conventional dynamic between us and deciding I'm the one he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. We have become a family, my kiddo is getting older, and he identifies with R as a parental figure. I have always given him the freedom and space without drama to be who he is and accepted him for the man he is without conditions or demands...this is just another beautiful facet of who he is, that I accept and embrace.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
Our relationship was so incredible that I could live without being loved by him. Now he loves me too..now I have it all..so it was absolutely worth it to wait almost 8 years for him to love me. It isn't an easy call to make but there is no deadline on love..you can't make yourself feel it or make someone else feel it. In our case he wasn't intentionally doing it, it was just a very long time before he developed those feelings for me.

I've been reading your posts and enjoying them since I joined this site, Chewsie.  I'm happy for you that this new development has occurred.  I'm really curious though, if you don't mind my asking, has R talked with you at all about why he now has developed feelings of love?  I mean, it's clear he has been great to you and your son for years and cared for you both but you say he didn't "love" you.  Now he tells you that he does love you.  That's wonderful but it makes me wonder what changed and why it took so long to change.   I'm sure you were curious about that as well and I was just wondering if he gave you any details.  If that's too nosey, I apologize.  I'm just happy for you and very interested in the change from not loving to loving.  Thanks and I hope you take no offense to my asking................luci 


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to slaveluci)
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