RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions?

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 4:22:02 PM

Lordandmaster

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Yes, it's something new, because it's been expanded to an unprecedented extent and has been rammed through the system along with other cynically unconstitutional policies. Such as torture...

Want to know the one of the main guys behind all of this stuff? It's Dick Cheney's lawyer, a smiling monster by the name of David Addington:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20858

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

This is nothing new, it's been going on for a lot longer that the last seven years.

Google "Sugar Grove WV", and you'll find that the NSA has had a listening post there since the early 70's.

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 4:35:59 PM

pinksugarsub

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All of this seems like a high-tech version of the FBI's illegal activities during the Civil Rights and Anti-War era.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4638275/

pinksugarsub

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 7:13:37 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Yeah, it is a very scary thing, since most of my generation uses the net and has, at some point or another, downloaded music, mentioned drug use, or something else that could be used against them. This generation could be held hostage, or tormented by a zealot, should such an archieve exist.

I think you're beginning to understand the issue. A simple: "You don't want your wife and kids to find out WHICH Craigslist personals boards you were reading while you were out of town?" can work wonders in making people pay attention and obey your commands. I knew a chick who used to get off on that "I have pictures of you being a slut, so you have to continue being a slut or people will find out that you're a slut". Even pretend, it can be a powerful inducement ( EVERYONE knew she was a slut... )

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 9:01:28 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, it's something new, because it's been expanded to an unprecedented extent and has been rammed through the system along with other cynically unconstitutional policies. Such as torture...

Want to know the one of the main guys behind all of this stuff? It's Dick Cheney's lawyer, a smiling monster by the name of David Addington:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20858

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

This is nothing new, it's been going on for a lot longer that the last seven years.

Google "Sugar Grove WV", and you'll find that the NSA has had a listening post there since the early 70's.

So is everyone CONTENT with standing around like chicken little (the sky is falling, the sky is falling)?

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 10:39:11 PM

Lordandmaster

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What's your suggestion? Anyway, I'm hearing more DISCONTENT on this thread than contentment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

So is everyone CONTENT with standing around like chicken little (the sky is falling, the sky is falling)?

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 10:49:32 PM

GetBoundTonight

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For me, the gov't should do whatever is needed to protect this country from terrorists. If listening to every phone call, chat room or whatever is what it takes then fine by me. Now, if the gov't starts acting on other crimes they hear during their terrorist search then that is wrong, but currently I haven't heard of such a case.

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 10:57:23 PM

pinkme2

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I tend to be very mistrustful of the Feds. But even I had to laugh at the thought of them somehow recording the phone call to my best friend or to my dad.

They can't even figure out who's legal here... and you all think they can figure out that you're going to a movie on Friday night? LOL

Let me just tie this into something else... If they somehow ram through Universal Health Care... our info will be completely at the mercy of the Feds. That is waaaay more scary to me. And way more real.

Or Real ID act. Or all the power given to the IRS, and other govermental agencies. Less goverment.. more freedom and prosperity.

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/19/2007 11:10:51 PM

angelikaJ

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Lordandmaster,
thank you for your response and your question.

I don't think that people are content with the loss of our freedoms (my point was more thay people seemed content to complain...) but I don't think many are discontent enough to try to effect change.

Effect change by conveying to those who work for us that this- (whatever THIS happens to be)- is simply unacceptable...I believe that if enough people are willing to take that one small action then perhaps change will occur.

GetBoundTonight

I understand your feelings...to me, however, giving up those things that were fought so hard for is a threat as important as the risk of terrorism.
If our constitution is being threatened from within, .. aren't "they" winning in a way?

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/20/2007 12:12:02 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetBoundTonight

For me, the gov't should do whatever is needed to protect this country from terrorists. If listening to every phone call, chat room or whatever is what it takes then fine by me. Now, if the gov't starts acting on other crimes they hear during their terrorist search then that is wrong, but currently I haven't heard of such a case.

The Gov't should break the law, and encourage others to break the law as long as it makes you "feel safer"?

Why bother having a Constitution and Laws in the first place?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/20/2007 5:47:20 AM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yes, it's something new, because it's been expanded to an unprecedented extent and has been rammed through the system along with other cynically unconstitutional policies. Such as torture...

Want to know the one of the main guys behind all of this stuff? It's Dick Cheney's lawyer, a smiling monster by the name of David Addington:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20858

As the technology has evolved, so has domestic spying, the only difference, is now it's quasi-legal, and we have only ourselves to blame.

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/20/2007 6:16:26 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

As the technology has evolved, so has domestic spying, the only difference, is now it's quasi-legal, and we have only ourselves to blame.

yeh, well, when a bunch of fools are running around chasing binladen in the name of terrorism the real terrorists attack our liberties.

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/20/2007 6:17:05 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

All of this seems like a high-tech version of the FBI's illegal activities during the Civil Rights and Anti-War era.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4638275/

pinksugarsub

Yep......J. Edgar Hoover's worst fears come alive: After Dr. Kings death, Hoover and others were scared to death that his widow, Coretta, would continue the fight, and the Anti-war movement and Civil rights movement would meld together as one.

You bet they were watching malcontent, average middle-class Americans and tapping their phones.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 11/20/2007 6:18:30 AM >

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RE: Domestic Spying Program- Opinions? - 11/20/2007 6:58:21 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Yep......J. Edgar Hoover's worst fears come alive: After Dr. Kings death, Hoover and others were scared to death that his widow, Coretta, would continue the fight, and the Anti-war movement and Civil rights movement would meld together as one.

You bet they were watching malcontent, average middle-class Americans and tapping their phones.

- R

and its sad how easy it is too... i was working in the switch room once and they were checking a circuit and had it on a loudspeaker, some attorney was talking with a client about sensitive information for the case they were working on.

It was that easy then and now with digital its even easier.

The problem of course becomes "proving" that the government did anything wrong. Its not the law that counts but getting caught and they do not hesitate to violate the law then they certainly have no reason to change now. Of course making spying legal now makes it legal in court also as well as they can force companies to go along during the time period of enactment and the long road to judicial process to get it thrown out if at all, and it rarely "all" gets thrown out, just the most aggregious part.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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