"we" as an example

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Synocense -> "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:52:44 AM)
I was at a seminar at my local club and the speaker made a fantastic point, which I would like to share here. One of those that made me go "hmmm" . The majority of us already know that the media and society at large has something against the leather community. ( And by leather community, I am referring to all of us beneath the big umbrella -- wiitwd ) I am not here today to debate what caused this but I would like to give one suggestion that may help in defusing the bomb. Society has a misconception about us. We are the whip wielding, the meek, the non-confident and the control freaks, however, even worse, many believe we are the pedophiles, the criminals, the truly sick and twisted too. It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? Why even mention it then? IMO, just by mentioning it, we are suggesting the possibility and my world, there is NO possibility. Yours either? So I suggest if you have these sorts of things on your profile, remove it. Don't give it a second thought. Sincerely, Syn

camille65 -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:55:19 AM)
I agree and have always agreed with that bit. Kinda like having to state that 'gee I have no limits' then having to go on and explain that well since dead people are a no go then I do have limits etc etc.Heh this is a small pet peeve of mine actually and I betchya that you're going to get some snarky responses!

Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:07:06 AM)
I dont doubt that I will, camille. But thats okay : ) Thanks for your reply. Syn

IceyOne -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:12:15 AM)
quote: The majority of us already know that the media and society at large has something against the leather community. I do not believe that they have something against as you have suggested here. I believe that it is nothing more than a lacking in understanding which in turn causes fear.

Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:14:28 AM)
Certainly it is fear of the unknown, but as I said, in this thread, my interest isn't debating what caused it. : ) {Edit} Oh, and please, by what I said I am not meaning to "shut you down" -- I am just trying to keep on track. Syn

thetammyjo -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:22:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Synocense I was at a seminar at my local club and the speaker made a fantastic point, which I would like to share here. One of those that made me go "hmmm" . The majority of us already know that the media and society at large has something against the leather community. ( And by leather community, I am referring to all of us beneath the big umbrella -- wiitwd ) I am not here today to debate what caused this but I would like to give one suggestion that may help in defusing the bomb. Society has a misconception about us. We are the whip wielding, the meek, the non-confident and the control freaks, however, even worse, many believe we are the pedophiles, the criminals, the truly sick and twisted too. It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? Why even mention it then? IMO, just by mentioning it, we are suggesting the possibility and my world, there is NO possibility. Yours either? So I suggest if you have these sorts of things on your profile, remove it. Don't give it a second thought. Sincerely, Syn While I would agree that anyone doing anything non-consensual or not between adults is not doing BDSM, that does not stop abusers, users, rapists, etc from using the terms. One of my sisters dated and was married for a few years to a man who beat and raped her. He'd apologize later and say "Baby, it was just a little SM." No, it wasn't but he knew some of the words and used them to try and get her to just go along with her. When people do what he did it is very easily for the public as a mass to feel justified in saying we are bad.

Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:32:45 AM)
Absolutely, guilt by association is a terrible thing, which is my point really. Don't give them an association with illegal activities. I am sorry to hear of your sisters abuse and I hope she can recover. I would like to add something else here. I am saying "we" and "them" but I in no way mean to imply that this is a war between the mainstream and those in the leather community. I am not looking to segregate, I am only referring to people who refuse to educate themselves and judge other lifestyles based on ....well, nothing. Warmly, Syn

angelic -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:36:37 AM)
If you want to discuss the mentioning of 'no um's, no animals, etc.' in profiles, i do not (personally) think it is necessary to put such disclaimers in. If, however, you want to discuss whether there are those that do those very things (and much worse) under the umbrella of WIITWD, then i believe they exist and some right here in our own forums. Maybe the folks that feel the need to put that sort of disclaimer in their profiles also believe that there are those that do indeed practice um's, animals, etc. and they want to be sure to separate themselves. After reading some of the stuff i have on these forums, it is not such a leap to imagine that some use (or abuse) WIITWD.

juliaoceania -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:39:18 AM)
There are sick people in every walk of life, and unfortunately some of those sick people make their way into this lifestyle and use it as a crutch to get their nonconsensual kink met. Unfortunately there are some people out there that look for a limitless person, or one that describes themselves as such, to abuse and to subject to things that are nonconsensual. There are men that look for submissives with UMs to abuse... etc. If people think that those who list their fears in their profiles are making a statement that this is seen as common in the lifestyle, that would be one way of viewing it.. the other way of viewing it is that there are a lot of kinky people unwilling to engage in nonconsensual acts

mistoferin -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 6:39:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Synocense It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? Well actually, yes there are people that do it...and a lot more. I don't state those kinds of things in my profile and I agree that common sense should say that I shouldn't have to. But unfortunately, I am constantly reminded that SOME people do need to hear those things. I have a line in my profile that mentions my dogs. They are my big, spoiled, furry babies and I devote a lot of my free time to them. They are a huge part of my life. Now I didn't mention them in any way that I thought could have been misconstrued to mean that I have an "unusual" interest in them....but I get e-mails CONSTANTLY asking me if I go "there" with them. It never ceases to amaze me. As for being an example, I believe that we all have a responsibility to portray the most positive image we can. Aside from this lifestyle, I am also a biker. I have had many experiences where people have reacted to my (or my partner's or friend's) appearances when dressed in leathers. I have had people roll up their windows and lock their car doors when we pull up next to them...I have had mothers yank their small children out of my immediate vicinity...I have had more people than I can count who have admitted to me after getting to know me a bit that at first appearance they were scared or intimidated by me. Now for the most part, I can not change those reactions in people if they don't allow me to get past that initial response...but I do the things that are within my power that will help to change the stereotype that they are reacting to. It's not about hiding who you are, but it is about carrying yourself with a bit of class and dignity. It is about making the reality of who you are contradict the image and the fears that the stereotypes evoke. No matter what hat (or dress) I am currently wearing...I try to remain cognizant that to some people "what I am" is something that they do not well understand and falls outside of their comfort zone....and I try to be the best example that I can be and in doing so shatter some of the misperception.

Twicehappy2x -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 7:20:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin It's not about hiding who you are, but it is about carrying yourself with a bit of class and dignity. It is about making the reality of who you are contradict the image and the fears that the stereotypes evoke. No matter what hat (or dress) I am currently wearing...I try to remain cognizant that to some people "what I am" is something that they do not well understand and falls outside of their comfort zone....and I try to be the best example that I can be and in doing so shatter some of the misperception. You are on the spot here erin, about whatever hat we wear. As you know, none of us here hides the fact that we are bikers, nor the fact that we are a couple, only that there are three of us making up that couple. And while we do not walk around in bdsm gear, i can often be heard yelling Master across the yard. Our neighbors consist of an elderly hardware store owner, a very straight laced hairdresser and her teen aged daughter, a female pastor and the couple with their teen aged daughter that have the band Scooter plays with. Yet when the daughter needed a prom dress she came to Jewel to get it made. Her mom was not worried, she knew that her daughter was safe in our home. When the hair dresser needs her lawn mower fixed she comes to me. When her car breaks down she looks to Scooter for help. When she has had a bad day and wants to talk or shoot darts, she comes to who ever here is available. When the band guys kid got a kidney infection and started hyper ventilating, his wife got me out of bed. When that kid wanted to learn how to make a pie from a pumpkin, it was me she came to. When his wife got a cold they called me to ask for hot toddies and herbs for her shower to break up the congestion. When the wife wanted to learn quilting she went to Jewel. If he needs help in the yard or on his car, he gets Scooter. The preacher stops on the porch to talk, get a few tomatoes from me. When her cat was not feeling well, guess whose door she knocked on? The older guy often stops to admire our gardens and ask for plant growing advice. My point is, we are accepted as is, loud motorcycles, alternative lifestyle and all because from the start we presented ourselves as trust worth,y helpful, nice folks.

MystressDream -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 7:51:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: Synocense It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? Well actually, yes there are people that do it...and a lot more. I don't state those kinds of things in my profile and I agree that common sense should say that I shouldn't have to. But unfortunately, I am constantly reminded that SOME people do need to hear those things. I have a line in my profile that mentions my dogs. They are my big, spoiled, furry babies and I devote a lot of my free time to them. They are a huge part of my life. Now I didn't mention them in any way that I thought could have been misconstrued to mean that I have an "unusual" interest in them....but I get e-mails CONSTANTLY asking me if I go "there" with them. It never ceases to amaze me. As for being an example, I believe that we all have a responsibility to portray the most positive image we can. Aside from this lifestyle, I am also a biker. I have had many experiences where people have reacted to my (or my partner's or friend's) appearances when dressed in leathers. I have had people roll up their windows and lock their car doors when we pull up next to them...I have had mothers yank their small children out of my immediate vicinity...I have had more people than I can count who have admitted to me after getting to know me a bit that at first appearance they were scared or intimidated by me. Now for the most part, I can not change those reactions in people if they don't allow me to get past that initial response...but I do the things that are within my power that will help to change the stereotype that they are reacting to. It's not about hiding who you are, but it is about carrying yourself with a bit of class and dignity. It is about making the reality of who you are contradict the image and the fears that the stereotypes evoke. No matter what hat (or dress) I am currently wearing...I try to remain cognizant that to some people "what I am" is something that they do not well understand and falls outside of their comfort zone....and I try to be the best example that I can be and in doing so shatter some of the misperception. I agree completely with what you have said here. I also believe we have to fight for our right to legally do what we do. That is why I started the thread "BDSM Crisis in Denver". I wish more people would step up and address the problem and help with it instead of hiding in the shadows and perpetuating the ideas that we need to be ashamed of who and what we are.

RRafe -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 7:54:24 AM)
hmmm.........do you think anyone dense enough to mention illegal activities in a public profile actually BOTHERS to read the forums? I mean, cmon, that would be like WORK. [:D]

OsideGirl -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 8:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Synocense we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? For the record, when I was single, I had people approach me about every one of those things. And not just once. I get a least one email a week from people looking for one of those items. I actually think that public perception has nothing to do with those things. It has to do with a psychology book that was published in the late 1800's that labeled sado-masochism as a psychosis. (along with masturbation, oral sex and honosexuality) We are slowly throwing away the morality of that book, but it is still slow going. It doesn't help that was vanilla society sees is the freaks of our community or what media sources show them. So, your battle is with the people that show up on television talk shows dressed in head to toe leather and carrying a whip.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 8:19:27 AM)
What I see is if ou whatch political tides everything changes in a four year cycle. As we tend to put sexual freedoms at the top of list others put other things more important. Such as health care family thingies job thingies. there is such a mountain of other things. That anytime you try and upset the balance of what is good for the whole vs the one ok that was star trekish any who as the op said media and everyone else has projected us in a certain way. Once you show them we want the same things in life we are just more fun in other areas things will be easier. In simples terms we are not a threat

TNstepsout -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 9:35:10 AM)
I too have a pet peeve about seeing those things listed as limits. IMO those are givens. Why do we only choose to list those things as limits? Why not no murder, no illegal drug use, no insest etc... It always seemed silly to me. I've no idea if it will make any impact on society at large. I have a feeling they are not reading profiles, but I do wish this practice would disappear.

Blaakmaan -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 9:41:55 AM)
That's interesting! I have actually asked some submissives who have "no children" listed as a limit, whether any Dominant has ever asked them to do anything sexual that involved a child. Almost invariably, the answer I get is "no." So, I can't help but wonder why one would list "no children" as a limit, when no Dominants are seeking submissives for any activities involving children.

toservez -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 9:44:04 AM)
I agree in terms that I often find it both sad and comical that people in this life when discussing things like limits and severity of control often throw in things that any sane and decent person would think is just a given. I have always felt those who really need to communicate those things have not accepted themselves yet or have a long way to go in trusting others. At the same time though on the scale of one to ten of this type of talk causing problems with acceptance I would rate it a 1. People fear the unknown and what they have not experienced or liked. Just look at any kink on here that gets brought up that another is not into. It is almost instant fear mongering worse case scenario bashing. We are a microcosm of society and for some this makes us no different in terms of treating those different as not as good themselves and fictional statements to tell everyone.

SmokingGun82 -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 10:03:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan That's interesting! I have actually asked some submissives who have "no children" listed as a limit, whether any Dominant has ever asked them to do anything sexual that involved a child. Almost invariably, the answer I get is "no." Almost is a big word in that sentence. That means that sometimes, the answer is yes. In fact I know it is, because more than one submissive I've talked to has mentioned getting emails from dom's about doing things with children. quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan So, I can't help but wonder why one would list "no children" as a limit, when no Dominants are seeking submissives for any activities involving children. They are. That's the thing- you might not be looking for that, I'm not, most aren't... but some are. Just like some submissives/slaves actually do want to be used by animals- if I had a nickel for every time one's brought it up (both in person and on CM) I'd have about five bucks. People list those particular things as limits because they come up. Plain and simple.

junecleaver -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 10:54:53 AM)
Some of us are the 'the whip wielding, the meek, the non-confident and the control freaks.' It seems ridiculous to deny that there are some fucked up people in this lifestyle....just like every other walk of life. I have a somewhat normal life. Anyone who befriends me or takes the time to understand me will realize that I am a normal person. I've never set out to define the image for wiitwd one way or another. People are either aware enough to realize stereotypes should not be taken as absolute truth or they aren't. There is not much I can do to inspire personal awareness in others. As for what is written in profiles, I find it silly and unnecessary for people to state limits like 'nothing illegal.' However, it's not detrimental to wiitwd or its image to say such things. The activities you have mentioned -DO- happen. Maybe if I had put something up in my own profile, I would not have received so many requests to perform those acts. But then again, those who send messages like that are not likely to read my profile in the first place.

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