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I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 7:45:25 AM   
michichan


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		hello,

this year, i got to know my submissive side. so i am very new into this.

so i have a question please. is it normal for Masters, to not keep their word? is this the lifetstyle?

i met a dominant man, we started to play (i did not know my submissive side this time), with punishment and rewards. that worked quite well. so i realized i am falling deeper and deeper into this game. first it was just a game, but after a while no more, for me.

so after one year he started cancelling my rewards, one after the other, and i think he enjoyed, to listen to my tears. i told him hunderd times, that i cannot take all this anymore. but he continued. and i always had the feeling he enjoyes that.

at the end he said, that he is sorry that everything became bad like this and that we need a break otherwise it will destroy me. and that we will meet again in 6 weeks, gave me a task, promised me to look at it and that we will communicate again, and after those six weeks, exactly on the day we should meet he travelled away, and i stood in front of his door, like a fool.

then of course i called him and wrote him a letter, what happened, and after 10 days, he wrote me a mail, where he said he is sorry, but that he was busy and that after all this telefonecalls and letters, he really does not want me to disturb him anymore and that he does not want to be so close, and that he has lost my telefon-number.

is this the way Sadist behave? i cried a lot, but he only enjoys that. that was ok for me, for a time, but then i started to realize that i get panikattacks and sleeping disorders. so i keep away from him now. but i still have bad feelings that i am not obidient enough. on the other hand, i consider myself mentally ill already to even have such thoughts, because one side of me tells, me that nobody can ever treat me like this.

it is my strong belive that a Masters word should be his word, and that i can built on that. but this man, teached me a different thing.

so i wonder, if this lifestyle is even something for me and wanted to ask other Masters, if they can identify with that behaving, or not, as i have no other experience.


michichan
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 7:52:07 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		this isnt standard dom behavior, so to speak, this is a jerk. am sorry it was so bad in the turnout for you. there are a lot of good people, good doms and good sadists, out there that channel that part of their personality into a wonderfully mutually-pleasing relationship(s). this is just one of those situations one runs into in bot vanilla and bdsm interactions: some people suck, to put it shortly and with a bit of humor.

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 7:56:47 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Like in all comunities, BDSM and D/s have it share of jerks. You met one and i feel bad that you ended up getting hurt. But do not loose hope, there are many good Masters out there, you just need to find one that ressures you as mutch as you tressures him. Good luck in your searching.

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 8:00:37 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michichan

hello,

this year, i got to know my submissive side. so i am very new into this.

so i have a question please. is it normal for Masters, to not keep their word? is this the lifetstyle?


The short answer is no, that is not normal for a Master, it is not part of the lifestyle.

Reading the rest of your post it sounds like this person has a problem with self control and took advantage of you. Its sad to hear that happened to you, but I hope you will learn from it and learn to avoid it in the future. Two things you should always look for in a potential Master are self control and integrity / ethics. To be a Master in a long term relationship, a man will have to have both self control and integrity and ethics to make it work. The best way to discover that is to take the time to get to know someone before you make any serious commitment, time enough to observe their behavior and see if their actions match up to what they say. Talk is cheap, but deeds speak very loudly of who a person really is. And always, always use your own best judgement about things. If something doesn't feel right, stop and ask questions about it. If the "Master" refuses to explain or discuss things, you probably ought to just walk away.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 9:09:57 AM   
perfection20005


Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline 		I'm so sorry this happened to you. This is not normal, and you can write him off as a jerk. Just don't think that this is the lifestyle. Just like vanilla, you run into idiots. Don't give up, you will find someone who will treat you the way you want.


_____________________________

perfection

"I took one look at Him, and I knew He was my Master."

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 9:45:14 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		This was not a "Master" but a sick person using you.
No its not acceptable but it apparently happens a LOT.
Before you get involved with another get references.


_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 9:51:57 AM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		No,not standard.

Just a poor choice on your part-you now know better.

Try not to beat yourself up over it too much-you'll know what to watch out for next time.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 10:39:51 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think you can answer this question for yourself.... for in the end, it is really your answer that matters most. I suspect already know. but to help you answer the question... ask yourself and answer for yourself... What is a Master to you.

What is a Master to you... what qualities do you desire to see demonstrated and that will bring out your submissive desires. what strengths and skills does this person have.. what qualities are unacceptable to you. Define the basics of this person for yourself. I see that you would find it unacceptable that a Master to you would be one that lies or manipulates your trust. If such is the case.. well then seeing that behaviour, clearly is demonstrating that this person is not a Master in your eyes and I suspect not in the eyes of many either. I myself regard no one as Master without a slave and I regard no one a slave without a Master. Master/slave to me is a statement of the type of relationship one is in and not neccessarily a statement of a person's personality. I am Master to no one except to my two girls, they are slave to know one except to me. I see people as individuals each with their own words, actions, strenghts and motivations. I look to understand a person's strengths and motivates most of all and that take time to appreciate them.

As unfortunate as it is... there are more than a few people that regularly lie and manipulate others in this lifestyle and the mainstream in general. Sometimes these individuals are very discrete and look for new ones to take advantage of. They come to you like wolf in sheep's clothing and are quickly able to gain your respect and trust with shallow words and actions on their part. Words and actions that are indeed meaningful when the motivation of a person is honorable and true, but can be used by one that is dishonest and unprincipled. However, learning the motivation of a person takes time and effort. More than a few make the mistake of assuming ones words and actions demonstrate the motivation of a person when in truth as a minimum the test of time and balance of others preceptions are required to truly appreciate anothers motivations.

Remember Cheaply given... is Cheaply Valued.


KoM

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 1:31:13 PM   
sirrand


Posts: 42
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		It is a shame to ruin a promising sub/slave. As a Hypno Master maybe I can right some of the after shocks. He must have enjoyed messing with your mind but he did not have the guts to finish the job. Nor the gratitude of your gift of submission to find you a sutable replacement Master. Bad maners and stupid thing to do. Don't lose heart it will be good soon. Now you know it is not a game. So think about what you liked and find someone who likes the same thing. Here is a great way to start.

A friend to the weak and a Master to the strong.
Sir Rand

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 6:44:25 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dominants are just like everyone else...thus they will or will not hold to their word like anyone else would.

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/10/2005 7:40:50 PM   
ehlovindom


Posts: 248
Joined: 1/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michichan

hello,

so i have a question please. is it normal for Masters, to not keep their word? is this the lifetstyle?

is this the way Sadist behave?

michichan


No, this is the way an asshole behaves. Sorry to be so crude but be glad you didn't get involved with him any more.

take care


_____________________________

Know which bridge to build, which one to cross, and which one to burn!

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 4:36:29 AM   
michichan


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		hello,

well, thank you. to everybody. this man messed so much with my mind, that i dont know what is right from wrong anymore. i dont know myself like this. so i am glad that i could ask. it makes me more selfconfident, in what i already know.

thank you everybody. you have been a great help.

yours
michi chan

knights of mist:

yes, you know what you are talking about. as you must have met this people also. i never knew but now i know. there words and action are fine, until a certain point. i think this is the point when they are sure, they got your trust. then they start to play their cruel games.

sir rand:

thank you. yes aftershock, i know about that. it took me almost 6 months, to get rid of the panic attacks and sleeping disorders. i wonder what he has done to me, i still dont know. but it must have been messing with my mind.

padriag:

why a problem with self control? could you explain that further to me? i thought he had great self control, in hiding what he really is. but i think you mean a different thing.

(in reply to ehlovindom)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 5:36:54 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

at the end he said, that he is sorry that everything became bad like this and that we need a break otherwise it will destroy me. and that we will meet again in 6 weeks, gave me a task, promised me to look at it and that we will communicate again, and after those six weeks, exactly on the day we should meet he travelled away, and i stood in front of his door, like a fool.

then of course i called him and wrote him a letter, what happened, and after 10 days, he wrote me a mail, where he said he is sorry, but that he was busy and that after all this telefonecalls and letters, he really does not want me to disturb him anymore and that he does not want to be so close, and that he has lost my telefon-number.


I am curious about this passage. I feel that there is much more going on here.

Firstly, based on your words, he said he was sorry about the direction in which the involvement went... then you went on to say he wanted to take a break.

Taking a break is often a cop-out used by both men & women when what they are really saying is it is over. A cowards way out, but so many times people 'think' they are being kind & just softening the blow.

You then say that he set a time limit of 6 weeks. You then proceed to say that 1) you will meet again after 6 weeks 2)that he gave you a task & promised you to look at it (???) & then you say you will communicate again.

This could very well be where communication went off track. Meeting again & re-establishing communication again are two different things. If it was to meet again, then obviously a date & time would have been agreed upon & this 'should' have been re-confirmed. A lot can happen in 6 weeks. I find it impossible to plan anything that far in advance, & if I were, it would be contingent upon current events. If it was to re-establish communication after 6 weeks & it was miscommunicated/misunderstood & you show up at his home & then proceed to follow-up with letters & phone calls... well this can be borderline stalker behavior. I am not suggesting you are a stalker (before I am jumped on) I am saying that people showing up at a person's home & continued contact afterward is not considered rational behavior. Again I am wondering if a miscommunication happened since she said meet & then said start communicating again. Also this quote below from the post.
quote:

after 10 days, he wrote me a mail, where he said he is sorry, but that he was busy and that after all this telefonecalls and letters, he really does not want me to disturb him anymore


Without knowing all of the details & without hearing his side, it really isn't possible to know what took place. The story gives off the impression that he was giving you the brush off. It happens everyday, in every walk of life.

I feel bad for you & sense that you are very upset by this. Time heals all wounds. Take from this involvement all the positive you experienced & catalog the negative so that you can utilize it as red flags in the future. The only bad relationships that we can have are the ones that we do not learn from. Learning the good is just as important as learning the bad.

MstrssPassion

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 5:44:13 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michichan
padriag:

why a problem with self control? could you explain that further to me? i thought he had great self control, in hiding what he really is. but i think you mean a different thing.


He was good at deceiving you, but that's not the same as self control. Here's what you said that leads me to believe he has a problem with self-control / restraint.

quote:

i met a dominant man, we started to play (i did not know my submissive side this time), with punishment and rewards. that worked quite well. so i realized i am falling deeper and deeper into this game. first it was just a game, but after a while no more, for me.

so after one year he started cancelling my rewards, one after the other, and i think he enjoyed, to listen to my tears. i told him hunderd times, that i cannot take all this anymore. but he continued. and i always had the feeling he enjoyes that.

You are probably correct in that he enjoyed manipulating and hurting you in that way. The problem here is that this was causing a real problem, which he ignored and continued in his behavior without regard to your welfare. That indicates that he couldn't resist the temptation, couldn't control his own actions... a lack of self control / restraint. A dominant must have self control because of the things we do in this lifestyle. Its the self control of a dominant, the ability to know when to quit and then actually stop when things begin to go too far, that clearly separates a good dominant from an abuser. In other words, a good dominant has self control, has a conscience and knows when to stop... they may want to do painful, tortuous things to a submissive but they have no desire to cause harm. The person you describe was causing you harm, and that was wrong of him.

In short, I'd say this person was and probably still is using this lifestyle as an excuse to engage in abusive behavior. He may be doing so because its a way of venting pent up hostility due to a variety of things, but this kind of sociopathic behavior is wrong and inexcuseable.

While you certainly feel shaken and hurt right now, and understandably so, its not a permanent condition. Give yourself permission to be upset about how you were treated, allow yourself to get angry, its okay to feel those things and a natural reaction. But once you work through those emotions, let them go and move on with your life. Don't cling to the hurt or the anger, don't live in fear that every future relationship might turn out this way. Try to learn from what happened and be more aware in the future, that's the best way to safeguard yourself. In the future, if you meet a dom who doesn't keep his word, move on. If you meet a dom who can't seem to control his urges, move on. People like that have issues of their own they need to deal with and they can't be the kind of reliable dominant you need.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to michichan)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 3:15:38 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		No this is NOT typical behavior for a Dom. You should be able to trust your Dom and know that he is doing what is right for you, but mostly you should be able to trust the WORD of your Dom. If you can't trust what they say then you surely can't trust what they might do. I'm really sorry to have to say this but this guy is a jerk and doesn't deserve the gift of your submission.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 6:24:11 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I hate these bullshit, "I have a question..." posts that are actually a bitch session about perceived mistreatment. If you want to bitch about someone you are angry at, that you resent, that you feel fucked you - how about just saying it, and stopping with the faux "seeking annswers crap"? "Hey, this person did X,Y, and Z and I am pissed now and want to bitch about them."

I mean, spare me: "Oh, oh I have a question. Is it normal for <insert label for targeted party> to <insert over the top, despicable behaviour>?"

I know why people try and mask bitch sessions this way - as camoflouge, to cover something that is not pretty (resentment and anger) with a veneer of faux astonishment and innoncence.

I don't know what's more pathetic - these sob stories in disguise, or the predictable responses.

(in reply to OscarHargraves)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/11/2005 9:58:21 PM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I hate these bullshit, "I have a question..." posts that are actually a bitch session about perceived mistreatment. If you want to bitch about someone you are angry at, that you resent, that you feel fucked you - how about just saying it, and stopping with the faux "seeking annswers crap"? "Hey, this person did X,Y, and Z and I am pissed now and want to bitch about them."

I mean, spare me: "Oh, oh I have a question. Is it normal for <insert label for targeted party> to <insert over the top, despicable behaviour>?"

I know why people try and mask bitch sessions this way - as camoflouge, to cover something that is not pretty (resentment and anger) with a veneer of faux astonishment and innoncence.

I don't know what's more pathetic - these sob stories in disguise, or the predictable responses.



easy......easy....easy...... and you know the motives, how?

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/12/2005 5:31:39 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

I know why people try and mask bitch sessions this way - as camoflouge, to cover something that is not pretty (resentment and anger) with a veneer of faux astonishment and innoncence.

I don't know what's more pathetic - these sob stories in disguise, or the predictable responses.


So often true...
One-sided stories opened for public discussion whether online or real-time turn into 'bash the hell out of the absent person' sessions. Too often these stories are about the former dominant, making him or her out to be a ruthless tyrant thus adding to the propaganda of abusive dominants running rampant in the lifestyle.

I attempted to clarify many points that the OP brought up within her post. I feel that there was basically poor communication between this couple & that this fact lead to the bitter separation.

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/12/2005 11:05:32 AM   
michichan


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
well. i dont think that i am the kind of person that likes to go into public and mock about somebody.

i really loved this man. and still, i do, somehow.

this man hurt me so bad, i had panicattacks and sleeping disorders for 6 months. he made me almost to have to go to psychological treatment.

i dont think it is nice to talk about something you dont know. i am a very sensitive person and this man, just messed with my mind.

by promising me things, and that was really some kind of misscommunication, on his side.

i dont know, if you ever got to know, human beings, that are like this, they gain your trust, only to hit you then, when it hurts most. realtimesadits, i would say.

so please, i was totally confused, and after six months i found the strenght to go here and ask some people which i think are worth to ask, because i dont know if that was an SM play or abuse. if you one of you has deeper insight to a persons mind, you will know, about being in an absolute helpless emotional state. i myself, felt like a child, that does not know right from wrong.

it is getting better slowly, and i dont know, what i have done wrong, that i am in such a bad emotional condition. i think that even if he wanted me to "give the blow" he should have done it with more respect, because he really caused me emotional harm, after promising me so much, that he never holds. the story was going on for almost 2 years.

of course, he gave me a task and said he would look at it, and call me on a special day to look at it. it took me a lot to fullfill this task and he knows that.

so after this day passed, i of course wanted to know, what was going on. isn that a normal reaction? so he surley knew, that i will be wanting to know, what is going on, and he intentionally went on a journey to hurt me.

isnt that clear? this man is a real sadist, and he enjoyed to hurt me until i almost wanted to kill myself.

and this is the last thing i will write about this very ugly story of my life. i am a mother of 32 and i dont consider myself a person that is talking bad about others.

but i know how i suffered.

michichan

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: I ask a Master please - 8/12/2005 4:57:26 PM   
talldrinkawater


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I hate these bullshit, "I have a question..." posts that are actually a bitch session about perceived mistreatment.


Faramir,

I think that was a bit uncalled for. She said she was new to the lifestyle. I think her question is a very valid question. Is his playing with her mind and hurting her, a form of humilation and sadism that she should expect from an S/m relationship, or is it something else.....abuse perhaps? I have a friend on line who is into deep humiliation. She has told me of things her Dom does to her (telling her to wait for his call which should come in 15 minutes and doesn't for three days, and then he says she should be honored to wait) that make me want to reach out and give her sympathy and a hug and call him a bastard. She usually laughs at my reaction and says that he knows exactly what he is doing to her and that she loves every bit of it. I think your jaded and cynical viewpoint might have fallen under the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" category.

Rather, perhaps advice that she can still choose the type of Dominant she would like to submit to, and that she doesn't have to put up with things that she perceives as abuse, might have served her a little better.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to put myself in their shoes before I judge so harshly.

Then again, maybe your "tough love" approach is the only way you can be.

Tall

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 20
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