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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 12:11:47 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		So let's see...we've gone from "NO ONE" ever said that one of the reasons why we went to war in Iraq was for the sake of Iraqi women's rights to..."You really need something from the government, or someone speaking for the administration."  Can you say "backtrack"?

Anyway, whitehouse.gov is from the government, wouldn't you say?  How about this?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/100days.pdf

It's a White House paper from August 8, 2003, right when people started noticing that the weapons-of-mass-destruction argument didn't hold water because there were no weapons of mass destruction.  So this paper tries to give other reasons for why we're in Iraq and to explain what we're (supposedly) accomplishing.  You'll see that it repeatedly refers to improving the lives of women.

Lastly, what commentators say is not irrelevant; if you've been following how this Administration operates, you'd know that right-leaning commentators are fed premium information in exchange for selling the Administration's story in all the media outlets.  (I assume you know who Karl Rove and Robert Novak are, right?  Nowadays the real scrotum-licker is Neil Cavuto.)

Anyway, you can believe what you want to believe, but don't tell me I made something up just because you've either never heard it before or don't want to believe it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

But if your links prove your claim why not post an excerpt. No, "commentators" don't qualify, neither do obscure long-winded college dissertations. You really need something from the government, or from someone speaking for the administration, but I can see why you're having so much difficulty finding something official like that - you made it up, like I said.

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 8:31:28 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So let's see...we've gone from "NO ONE" ever said that one of the reasons why we went to war in Iraq was for the sake of Iraqi women's rights to..."You really need something from the government, or someone speaking for the administration."  Can you say "backtrack"?


So now you're telling me that when you said: "One of the nauseating things we were told after it had become clear that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction was that we invaded in order to improve the social standing of women in Iraq" You meant, what we were told by letters to the editor and high school students and bums under bridges?

You didn't meant the Bush administration?

Yeah. I can say backtrack...

quote:



Anyway, whitehouse.gov is from the government, wouldn't you say?  How about this?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/100days/100days.pdf

It's a White House paper from August 8, 2003, right when people started noticing that the weapons-of-mass-destruction argument didn't hold water because there were no weapons of mass destruction.  So this paper tries to give other reasons for why we're in Iraq and to explain what we're (supposedly) accomplishing.  You'll see that it repeatedly refers to improving the lives of women.



That's not a list of reasons for having gone in as you try to claim, is it? It's a long list of accomplishments during our first 100 days in Iraq. I have to give you this, your using a long list of accomplishments against the administration as if it's bad thing is very artful propaganda on your part.


quote:


Lastly, what commentators say is not irrelevant; if you've been following how this Administration operates, you'd know that right-leaning commentators are fed premium information in exchange for selling the Administration's story in all the media outlets.  (I assume you know who Karl Rove and Robert Novak are, right?  Nowadays the real scrotum-licker is Neil Cavuto.)



So by your standard, anyone anywhere saying anything is representing the Bush administration.

Sorry, my standards are much higher than that.





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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 8:57:36 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Is "improving the lives of women (and/or men) in foreign countries" really part of the *job description* of the U.S. government to be doing?
That's an odd thing for Bush to be saying.
What about "improving the lives of women (and/or men) in the U.S."?
I know that when I vote for a congressman and senators it's with the expectation that they'll be working for our state and country not for foreign countries or foreign nationals.
We haven't heard that from any of the candidates yet; "I'm running on a platform of helping women in foreign countries!"
Oh, I'll run right out and vote for that one!
"Huh?"
We're not doing a real good job improving the lives of women (and/or men) in this country now but he (Bush) wants to do it in foreign countries?
In the DPS (dreaded private sector) they have "job descriptions" so that people know what they can and cannot do.
It's pretty obvious that government needs those "job descriptions" even more than the DPS.
We can't have politicians just going around doing whatever they "feel like doing."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/24/2007 9:09:12 AM >

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 9:37:03 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		The idea is that our security is dependent on the security of others around the globe because turmoil or "unhappiness" plainly festers into global terrorism while prosperity or "happiness" generally engenders peace, civility, higher learning and cooperation.

While everything is far more complicated, that's the general idea, and that's why most administrations past and present have been engaged in world affairs.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/24/2007 10:00:04 AM >

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 9:47:50 AM   
Real0ne


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wonderful ideology if you plan on taking over and ploicing the whole world.

funny part about it though is the crime rate is so high in washington that its known as the murder capital of the us.

If we cant take care of our back yard how you suggest we take care of the world?

More imperialism?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 9:53:20 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The idea is that our security is dependent on the security of others around the globe because turmoil or "unhappiness" plainly festers into global terrorism while prosperity or "happiness" generally engenders peace, civility, higher learning and cooperation.

While everything is far more complicated, that's the general idea, and that's why most administrations past and present have been engaged in worldly affairs.


Sanity, I understand that school of thought but I don't think it's a "good idea."
It's very obvious that The People of this country really need to rein in our government!
I think that The People need to have a lot more "direct control" than we have now.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 9:57:05 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
wonderful ideology if you plan on taking over and ploicing the whole world.

funny part about it though is the crime rate is so high in washington that its known as the murder capital of the us.

If we cant take care of our back yard how you suggest we take care of the world?

More imperialism?



No one advocates "taking over and ploicing the whole world", don't be absurd. A few surgical strikes on occasion is what's needed, and that's what we're doing, cutting out some cancer here and there.

And D.C. Police are responsible for crime in D.C., not the Feds. Washington D.C. will be known as the nuclear wasteland of America if we turn our backs on what's happening in the Middle East.

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:01:34 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
wonderful ideology if you plan on taking over and ploicing the whole world.

funny part about it though is the crime rate is so high in washington that its known as the murder capital of the us.

If we cant take care of our back yard how you suggest we take care of the world?

More imperialism?



No one advocates "taking over and ploicing the whole world", don't be absurd. A few surgical strikes on occasion is what's needed, and that's what we're doing, cutting out some cancer here and there.

And D.C. Police are responsible for crime in D.C., not the Feds. Washington D.C. will be known as the nuclear wasteland of America if we turn our backs on what's happening in the Middle East.


bah wah????

dc is the only place in this country congress can legitimaterly govern from the ground up!  what is it 10 square miles?


a few surgical strikes?  So you feel thats not policing?  Its the same thing!



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:09:47 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
It's very obvious that The People of this country really need to rein in our government!
I think that The People need to have a lot more "direct control" than we have now.


I 100% agreed which is why i ran this past everyone a while back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1163668/mpage_1/tm.htm

i believe its not impossible to fix these problems if the people all get on board




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:13:24 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Bush and Hillary Clinton think we can "Police the world."
Didn't you guys hear her? She's been on 70 overseas trips and knows many "world leaders" "personally."
But, about 40 of those trips were to get away from reporters when Bill was in trouble.
Also, trips to Ireland where the Clintons own a house to snort cocaine with "Bono" don't really count.
The problem is that an ever increasing number of Taxpayers like me don't want to *pay* to police the world.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:21:22 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Too bad we didn't *pay* to police Afghanistan a little better prior to 9/11.

After all, I'm sure you know what they say about an ounce of prevention!

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:28:25 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Too bad we didn't *pay* to police Afghanistan a little better prior to 9/11.

After all, I'm sure you know what they say about an ounce of prevention!


yeh maybe the cia could run another coup and insert another failed government.

It would have been cheaper to get the caspian sea pipeline in that way.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:43:17 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		If the CIA could have overthrown the Taliban without a full invasion, odds are good they would have done that. All of your conspiracy theories are just silly!

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:48:49 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
It's very obvious that The People of this country really need to rein in our government!
I think that The People need to have a lot more "direct control" than we have now.


I 100% agreed which is why i ran this past everyone a while back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1163668/mpage_1/tm.htm

i believe its not impossible to fix these problems if the people all get on board





RealOne, I remember that post and I think that it's an outstanding idea!
Our government should "serve" The People not try to *dictate* to us!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:51:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

If the CIA could have overthrown the Taliban without a full invasion, odds are good they would have done that. All of your conspiracy theories are just silly!


And if our government was guarding our borders and enforcing our immigration laws like they should have been doing 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened.
The U.S. is *not* an Empire and Imperialism will bankrupt this country.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 10:57:40 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		If there is a nation training terrorists such as Afghanistan was, they don't need to get in to do a lot of damage.

They just have to get close.

Pretending that they don't exist, or pretending that their religion doesn't call for killing us won't make the problem go away.

You can't make the borders secure enough... you have to engage them, you have to change their mindset.

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 11:01:03 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

If the CIA could have overthrown the Taliban without a full invasion, odds are good they would have done that. All of your conspiracy theories are just silly!


the cia put the taliban in power in the first place!

apparently you do not keep up with all the foia info that hits the net, unless you want to call kermit rooseveldt a liar.

operation ajax re; iran




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/24/2007 11:02:16 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 11:08:23 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		During the Cold War we worked with the people of Afghanistan to repel the Soviets, who were marching towards the oil fields of the Middle East, and those oil fields were and are vital to the entire world economy.

Keep it real, keep everything in it's rightful context.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
the cia put the taliban in power in the first place!

apparently you do not keep up with all the foia info that hits the net, unless you want to call kermit rooseveldt a liar.

operation ajax re; iran





_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 11:09:16 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

If the CIA could have overthrown the Taliban without a full invasion, odds are good they would have done that. All of your conspiracy theories are just silly!


the cia put the taliban in power in the first place!

apparently you do not keep up with all the foia info that hits the net, unless you want to call kermit rooseveldt a liar.

operation ajax re; iran





Yup, the CIA did fund and arm the Taliban in Afganistan to fight against The Soviet Union!
You know, there's a lot to be said for minding your own business whether you're a country or an individual.
Why do U.S. Presidents have to react everytime some foreign country farts?
They're supposed to be working for us!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/24/2007 11:13:36 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

you have to change their mindset.



Hats off to you for holding your hands up to what you're all about, however tyrannical your idea may be. The Nazis and Stalinists would have gotten along with you like a house on fire, they changed peoples' minds, too.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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