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In an atmosphere where women are extremely judgmental because they can be, it's very hard to maintain a continuous attempting position when any little thing can cause her to drop you and go for one of the many others vying for her attention. Coupled with the realization that even after having made the initial contact, it's not extremely easy for a submissive to lead the conversation to something real when the one who would eventually be the one in charge doesn't seem moving in that general direction.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

To the boys... Hint! Hint! Nudge! Nudge!

Truer words were not written today.

- LA

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Perhaps someone should write up a "How to attract a dominant woman with your online ad", lock it (or however one makes posts permanant) and outline basic, general things like spelling and grammar, honesty, approachability

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I've also discovered another problem that I've run into and that is the whole "getting to know someone on the Internet" part of the paradigm.

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn
For me, I think most potential relationships from online seem to fail because I tend to eventually start thinking that nothing is ever going to develop, and I start to lose interest in months of talking back and forth that doesn't seem to go anywhere.

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I'll be honest, if I meet someone online, I want to meet them face to face within a week. Otherwise, nevermind.

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I hear that - I severely limit the time I will talk to someone who wants to be considered online.

I usually have a one month plan which I've no doubt mentioned before. I DO talk online via emails and IMs for about two weeks. This weeds a number of them out because of consistency issues. Amazing how hard it is for most to consistently keep in contact with me every day or two for 2 solid weeks. After two weeks, if there's still mutual interest, about an hour chat on the phone is in order. If that goes well, they have a week to meet me for coffee. I allow absolutely no more than a month after first contact to meet.

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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So true, its a shame more males didnt realise the benefits of posting and showing what they are like as they may have better luck finding someone.

To the boys... Hint! Hint! Nudge! Nudge!

Truer words were not written today.

- LA

I used to post all the time. Didn't help much. I agree with the geographical response. I don't seem to do very well where I'm located.

I've also discovered another problem that I've run into and that is the whole "getting to know someone on the Internet" part of the paradigm. Honestly, the back and forth rarely goes anywhere. Maybe it's me. I don't know. I've never really been good with small talk, and that's what the back and forth of email tends to be like for me. I really suck at small talk situations. I understand this is probably automatically unattractive to a number of women, but I have to be honest because just talking around it doesn't seem to make it any better.

For me, I think most potential relationships from online seem to fail because I tend to eventually start thinking that nothing is ever going to develop, and I start to lose interest in months of talking back and forth that doesn't seem to go anywhere.

In an atmosphere where women are extremely judgmental because they can be, it's very hard to maintain a continuous attempting position when any little thing can cause her to drop you and go for one of the many others vying for her attention. Coupled with the realization that even after having made the initial contact, it's not extremely easy for a submissive to lead the conversation to something real when the one who would eventually be the one in charge doesn't seem moving in that general direction.

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ORIGINAL: neosub11

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In an atmosphere where women are extremely judgmental because they can be, it's very hard to maintain a continuous attempting position when any little thing can cause her to drop you and go for one of the many others vying for her attention. Coupled with the realization that even after having made the initial contact, it's not extremely easy for a submissive to lead the conversation to something real when the one who would eventually be the one in charge doesn't seem moving in that general direction.

You summed it up perfectly. Getting responses hasn't been too difficult for me, especially because I've learned from many of my mistakes along the way and kept tweaking and changing both my approach towards my profile as well as my e-mails to potential Dommes. And, depending on the Domme, I've even been able to keep a line of communication open for anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. What ends up happening, for me at least, in most cases, is the Domme either disappears one day, or suddenly becomes completely non-talkative about anything (lifestyle-related or not), or says that she doesn't really know what she's looking for or that she's not the "right Domme for me" or that sort of thing.

The thing that's disappointed me while lurking through the message boards on this site is the judgmental attitude that some (not all) Dommes seem to adapt to subs like me. Granted, there are a lot of "fake" subs out there. Granted, I'm young. But I feel I'm following many of the things that the Dommes on here are suggesting for subs who are having trouble finding someone, while other Dommes immediately just seem to dismiss the sub's question. I feel it's unfair to label every sub the same way, just as it would be unfair for a sub to make generalizations about all Dommes. Plus, as young as I am, I have been in a D/s relationship (short lived as it was due to factors outside my control). I was in it, and I enjoyed it, so the typical argument about a young sub "not really knowing what they want" or suggestions about "trying a pro-Domme first" or "trying a vanilla relationship" first don't really work.

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Don't disregard the idea of dating vanilla. You *are*young, and there's nothing wrong with getting some dating experience under your belt while waiting it out. Trust me, you don't want to be 35 with little/no dating experience and meet Ms. Femdom Right but feel totally out of sorts because you haven't had much trial and error with good old fashioned dating.

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Second -- have you considered going to any local alternative dance clubs? You are in the right age group for that, and there are quite a few fetishy women that frequent those parts. Some are just trendy or into the fashion, but some are actually experimenting with real BDSM. It's a different option than going to a munch and being the youngest guy there or not taken seriously.

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ORIGINAL: neosub11

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Don't disregard the idea of dating vanilla. You *are*young, and there's nothing wrong with getting some dating experience under your belt while waiting it out. Trust me, you don't want to be 35 with little/no dating experience and meet Ms. Femdom Right but feel totally out of sorts because you haven't had much trial and error with good old fashioned dating.

Well, I haven't disregarded it...I have dated in the past few years, but I just can't really see myself in a purely vanilla relationship. And unfortunately, even at my age group, many girls (and guys) are likely to see even simple things as taboo. One girl that I was rather interested in a few months back shared with me a story about one of her previous boyfriends, who, as it turns out, had some of the interests that I have, and nothing that's really completely out there, but she was immensely turned off by it. Another girl I regularly dated at one time didn't even want a foot massage, let alone anything else. Plus, in a closed community as a college campus, people talk, and when the subject is of a taboo nature, people unfortunately often get the wrong ideas in their head.

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Second -- have you considered going to any local alternative dance clubs? You are in the right age group for that, and there are quite a few fetishy women that frequent those parts. Some are just trendy or into the fashion, but some are actually experimenting with real BDSM. It's a different option than going to a munch and being the youngest guy there or not taken seriously.

It's something I would consider, but how does someone like me, who in regular, vanilla life resembles just another vanilla guy, fit in at one of these clubs or gatherings? I don't really don a goth or "alternative" look and from some experience I've had in the past, some other people will see that and not be interested as a result, which is unfortunate because I'm open to speaking to anyone and find many different types of looks and appearances attractive.

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First -- by dating I don't mean get into a relationship. Just get to know women and go out with them, a few dates here and there. And don't date prudes. Look for women who seem vivacious, open minded, intelligent. If a woman seems super conservative, move on. And if you are going to experiment with a vanilla woman, you don't have to get crazy kinky on her -- even if it's a very conservative closed campus, is it that outrageous to engage in some light bondage? There is no rush to get totally hardcore. You have plenty of years ahead of you.

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You "fit in" at an alternative club as much as you fit in, basically. I'm not suggesting that you go to a goth or industrial club if you hate the music and entire atmosphere and are just looking for kinky women -- go there if you find the vibe to be one you like. I love it because of the music, the dancing, the entire atmosphere. By day I am as conservative as they come -- for 5 years in my 20s I wore business suits during the day and vinyl at night. You don't have to be wildly alternative by appearance to go to and enjoy alternative clubs -- I have less piercings and tatoos than my 68 year old MOTHER! (this is an ongoing joke but true -- I only have my ears pierced and she has hers pierced twice, and has some minor tatoo'ing of the "permanent makeup" genre while I have no tatoos at all -- so while I say that, she's still a typical grandma and is in no way on the fringe).

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The thing about an alternative dance club is that you can be pretty sure even the most straight laced girl in the place isn't freaked out by the mere mention of BDSM. Remove the make up and clothes from a lot of the women there and the next day you would not recognize them sitting across the way at the library studying.

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ORIGINAL: neosub11

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First -- by dating I don't mean get into a relationship. Just get to know women and go out with them, a few dates here and there. And don't date prudes. Look for women who seem vivacious, open minded, intelligent. If a woman seems super conservative, move on. And if you are going to experiment with a vanilla woman, you don't have to get crazy kinky on her -- even if it's a very conservative closed campus, is it that outrageous to engage in some light bondage? There is no rush to get totally hardcore. You have plenty of years ahead of you.

Well, that's what I meant, dating. Those women I mentioned were definitely not the most conservative in the book (one was into the whole punk rock, chuck taylor scene, another was into the gothic philosophy, if not going out wearing all black). Of course I wouldn't rush to do anything hardcore, but I don't think a foot massage is very hardcore either.

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You "fit in" at an alternative club as much as you fit in, basically. I'm not suggesting that you go to a goth or industrial club if you hate the music and entire atmosphere and are just looking for kinky women -- go there if you find the vibe to be one you like. I love it because of the music, the dancing, the entire atmosphere. By day I am as conservative as they come -- for 5 years in my 20s I wore business suits during the day and vinyl at night. You don't have to be wildly alternative by appearance to go to and enjoy alternative clubs -- I have less piercings and tatoos than my 68 year old MOTHER! (this is an ongoing joke but true -- I only have my ears pierced and she has hers pierced twice, and has some minor tatoo'ing of the "permanent makeup" genre while I have no tatoos at all -- so while I say that, she's still a typical grandma and is in no way on the fringe).

Well, I have no tattoos, no piercings, nothing flashy about me at all, nor do I have anything flashy to wear to go to such a club. I actually like the music even though in general I'm not a big club guy (more of the coffee-house type of a guy)...so what are you suggesting I should do?

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The thing about an alternative dance club is that you can be pretty sure even the most straight laced girl in the place isn't freaked out by the mere mention of BDSM. Remove the make up and clothes from a lot of the women there and the next day you would not recognize them sitting across the way at the library studying.

I know that's most likely true, but what if I don't "fit in" to the scene? Unfortunately there's many ways people can be judgmental, rightly or wrongly. Also, I'd feel silly going by myself and not knowing anyone and not fitting in at all either, and I really can't think of anyone that would come along with me.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha


A couple of things. First, don't take this the wrong way, I'm just being honest -- I've seen your posts for years, and most of them are downers.

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha


A couple of things. First, don't take this the wrong way, I'm just being honest -- I've seen your posts for years, and most of them are downers.

That's the problem of having been a part of the scene for years. I'm definitely not the same person I was those years ago, and obviously first impressions tend to linger with some people more than others. I'm actually quite upbeat about quite a few things these days. Unfortunately, some people tend to hold you to ancient perceptions. That's okay. It's not like I'm losing some popularity contest or something. It's all good.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha


A couple of things. First, don't take this the wrong way, I'm just being honest -- I've seen your posts for years, and most of them are downers.

That's the problem of having been a part of the scene for years. I'm definitely not the same person I was those years ago, and obviously first impressions tend to linger with some people more than others. I'm actually quite upbeat about quite a few things these days. Unfortunately, some people tend to hold you to ancient perceptions. That's okay. It's not like I'm losing some popularity contest or something. It's all good.

I am talking more specifically even about the posts here on collarme -- I can't recall many that were upbeat, optimistic, cheerful. Most have been complaining about how you have given up (how many times have you typed the words "given up"). I don't recall ever reading a message from you that had an overall "positive" slant to it. I am not talking about anything from years ago.

Go take a quick read of your past posts here. Or just do a search for "given up" or "gave up" and you might be surprised.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: sarbonn

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha


A couple of things. First, don't take this the wrong way, I'm just being honest -- I've seen your posts for years, and most of them are downers.

That's the problem of having been a part of the scene for years. I'm definitely not the same person I was those years ago, and obviously first impressions tend to linger with some people more than others. I'm actually quite upbeat about quite a few things these days. Unfortunately, some people tend to hold you to ancient perceptions. That's okay. It's not like I'm losing some popularity contest or something. It's all good.

I am talking more specifically even about the posts here on collarme -- I can't recall many that were upbeat, optimistic, cheerful. Most have been complaining about how you have given up (how many times have you typed the words "given up"). I don't recall ever reading a message from you that had an overall "positive" slant to it. I am not talking about anything from years ago.

Go take a quick read of your past posts here. Or just do a search for "given up" or "gave up" and you might be surprised.

Akasha

Sounds like it's taken out of context, even if it may have been me taking me out of context. I've never "given up." I left the scene. I left the scene because I moved to a much more conservative area of the country and started to realize that I was probably not going to find what I was looking for in this neck of the woods. I kept believing I was going to be moving back to San Francisco after I finished my Ph.D., but after my school work was over, I ended up getting a lucrative offer in this same neck of the woods, so I realized that I'd probably be stuck in this area for a very long time.

But it's not really giving up. It's frustration. I mean, honestly, what do you expect someone to do? Be upbeat about not having been in a bdsm relationship for the last seven or eight years? Sure, it's my fault. I know that. But I also tend to put forth a lot of humor that has a tendency to use me as the victim rather than other people. As such, I've grown used to making myself the target of much of this humorous ridicule, even to the point that it sometimes comes out in regular speech. Sure, I know that's not attractive, but when you've been used to either dating vanilla only or spending your evening with your legos and stuffed animals, well it can sometimes come off that way.

I also write things as I see them. Unlike a lot of people who try to pretend to be something they're not, I'm brutally honest. When guys with one purpose in mind have completely worn down the femdoms on boards to the point where NO MAN is trusted as being sincere, it's pretty hard to be upbeat about that. We have a lot of things in our midst that serves to derail the process for a lot of people attempting to find the appropriate partners. It's unfortunate, but it happens a lot. Ignoring it or glossing over it doesn't make it any better.

I used to maintain a web site to help other submissives find their way. That web site was accessed by a woman claiming to be in the scene who then used it to try to get me fired from my teaching job. Sorry, but it was hard to keep a happy face during that drama.

I also think you have a VERY selective memory of anything I've written, and that's filtered through a lens I've ascertained is not very rosy.

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I've mentioned this before but the HNGs have made it so difficult for the sincere ones of us in the community that a lot of us have pretty much just given up trying to connect with anyone. I've had people push me away because of pre-screening that is designed to get rid of lots of people where quite often I don't even get a chance to be taken seriously or even in a serious context. When it happens enough times, you start to realize that the insincere ones have made it practically impossible for the rest of us to manage successfully, so that doing nothing is often more beneficial than wasting time.

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I'd probably be very comfortable with a woman who was of the take-charge nature if that taking charge brought her pleasure as part of the relationship. I don't need the fetishy things to make it work for me. Those were all great when I was exploring this lifestyle for the first time, but while I think such things are great, they wouldn't be necessary for me at all.

I've pretty much given up for now. While I wouldn't turn away the right woman if she came along, I've stopped looking. I run into too many toxic people, and I've started to believe that something I'm doing is attracting them.