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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 4:43:58 PM   
Cyntilating


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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

Is it possible to be assertive while still being submissive. What are your thoughts?

ghita~


I am both
just not generally to the same person
 
I submit to one man & am not assertive in that relationship. I have given my will and my control to him.
Everywhere else you find me> you will probably find me asserting myself...generally in a helping or care-giving role, but still asserting.
 
I also feel I am A submissive all the time...it is part of who I am always...but submit to one.
 
Sometimes I think the words passive and submissive are considered synonomous  ..and so it is hard to be both a passive personality and an assertive personality..
but  being a submissive, to me, doesn't mean my general personality type is passive...I am the one in control and making decisions in many other areas of my life..most infact.
I know how to express myself..I know how to stick up for myself if I know I am right..
but I don't possess a competitive nature..
I would rather keep quiet than argue a point just to win it ( or be right.).
 
 
 
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 4:45:57 PM   
Cyntilating


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Assertive in life?  Definitely.

Assertive toward him?  Depends.

I was just having a conversation with someone about this, actually.  I can make suggestions to my Master, providing him with enough information for him to consider the suggestion and decide on it himself.  I can not boldly go to him and say "You should....(insert anything here)." 

Here's a silly example.  He's diabetic.  I recently heard him saying that he loves to snack on peanut butter, and Skippy is his preferred brand.  I gasped and said "Oh no, please not Skippy!!" and he laughed and kind of shrugged it off.

Seriously - Skippy has added sugar, and he doesn't need that in his diet right now.  But I can not tell him what to eat.  I can, however, provide him with information to make better choices.  So I sent him an email with all the nutritional facts and ingredients of Skippy, compared to that of my recommended brand (Adams), which had no added sugar or preservatives - just plain old peanuts and a smidgeon of salt.  I asked him if he would please consider trying my recommended brand.  He said he would.  So I brought him a jar of it.  He smiled and thanked me.  He tried it.  He liked it.  He'll be switching to it.

That was assertive, while still completely submissive. 

As his slave, it is my duty to provide him with information he can benefit from, but may not be aware of.  He will take it from there - either by asking for more info, or by accepting or rejecting my suggestion.  This is different, however, than telling him what to do, or even what I think he should do.


Edited to add:  As for things I would like to explore with him, I am always encouraged to ask, but to also explain why I want to explore it.  Then he decides if/when/how it is explored.

 
btw
both, Skippy and Jiff make a sugar-free peanut butter....can't tell the difference!   : )  just fyi

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 4:50:41 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		I posted this a few months back:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1273151/mpage_2/key_aggressive/tm.htm#1276322

Still find it to be true.

Ownedgirlie and Kyra have already said it all.  That's how it works for us as well.  There is a huge difference between being assertive and being aggressive or controlling.  Master loves the former, not the latter.............luci

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(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 4:59:21 PM   
Cyntilating


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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

hmmmm....while I definantly thank you all for your answers...I think maybe I should expand my question.

I am specifically asking about being assertive towards your Top (Dom, Sir, Domme, Mistress, Master, Daddy, whatever)..while still being submissive. This is an ongoing conversation I have been having offline with some friends and I would like some extra input. I purposefully tried to stay vauge in my first post because I didnt want to direct answers too much, but I guess I didnt direct them enough...lol. Assertiveness within your relationship...thats the topic Id like your thoughts on. Are you? How are you? If you are a top is your submissive? How? Do you find assertiveness a good quality or one you want to repress in some way? Thanks.

ghita~


sigh
Sorry Ghita
I posted and then I read your amendment..
 
so I guess I will add
   I am not assertive in my relationship with Master.
But I am encouraged to express my views and opinions when asked..or if I have something I need to talk about > I ask to talk about it : )  he listens....we talk more...he thinks.....he decides.
I don't argue.  I don't demand. 
 
so basically...my assertiveness sounds alot like : 
"Master, could we talk about that more please?"
" Master, when you have the time, I have something I need to discuss with you, please."
 
He is such a communicator tho' ..generally we both do ample amounts of talking almost everything through.

 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 4:59:50 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

Is it possible to be assertive while still being submissive. What are your thoughts?

ghita~


No (as to male subs).

I'm a male sub.  If I have a personal opinion...I'm most assuradly not sub.

(Glad I could help).

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 7:50:29 PM   
forg0ttenclone


Posts: 62
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		While i do have my submissive side, i am aggressive, assertive, and dominant in everyday life.  I do not take crap from anyone.  However; my Dominant is the only one that sees my submissive and subserviant side.  Even still, she likes who i am.  I'm part brat at heart.  I'm what some refer to as a Smart-Assed Masochist.  Even within my own submission, i am still assertive.  Granted, that assertiveness has its limits, naturally.  It's just a matter of learning those limits, lol.

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 8:56:11 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

Is it possible to be assertive while still being submissive. What are your thoughts?

ghita~


I believe one can. I have been very assertive with Valyraen, to the point of figuratively bashing him over the head when needed. While it isn't something I enjoy, it was something that we both know was required for the ultimate goals of our relationship.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/21/2007 10:59:05 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Interesting thread.

What is assertive? What is submissive? What is dominant? Are these not adjectives to describe how we use both energy and power in our interactions with other people?

What is dominant? Is this not an adjective to describe someone who is in control, and therefore someone who has power and is able to use it?

What is submissive? Is this not an adjective to describe someone who has relinquished or given up control to another person and who therefore has no power to use?

What is assertive? Is this not an adjective to describe someone who may or may not have power but who at any moment is able to assume control, take the initiative and use the power which they have?

I am a submissive. As a submissive I guess I'm meant to be open and receptive, and also responsive, to recognise signals, rituals and instructions from a Dominant and to be able to respond appropriately to them.

But isn't the D/s dynamic described as the 'power exchange'? I think of the times I am with a Dominant, and what happens in our interaction. Let's assume it's a service type situation. The Dominant makes a decision and informs me of this decision, to which I must somehow respond. I am the submissive, therefore I must do the thinking to choose the appropriate course of action, and then initiate that course of action, which becomes my response, which in turn brings the effect which either pleases and satisfies my Dominant or not.

Therefore surely being 'dominant' or 'submissive' is not a state where control, power or energy is static but merely describes two states and two roles where control, power and energy is fluid and constantly changes. This is why it is called the power exchange, the Dominant hands power to the submissive requiring some sort of response and the submissive hands the power back to the Dominant with the response and the cycle is complete.

Therefore I feel that in the absence of the Dominant having control or power the submissive in taking the initiative and assuming control to take power and deliver power to the Dominant, thereby being assertive, is something I feel which at times is both acceptable and necessary.

Therefore yes, as a submissive there are times when I can be assertive towards my Dominant. When? Read the signals, D/s I feel is all about reading, interpreting and understanding signals given by your partner.

Hopefully this answers the question.

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(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 2:03:40 AM   
slaveofKaos


Posts: 143
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I am very assertive in my normal day to day life, however I am not allowed to be assertive when it comes to my Master. I can ask questions or suggest things but they can never come off as im asserting them.

edited to add: I don't uderstand why people don't know the definations of words. I would think that an OP was using the general defination of a word unless they specifically say so. I'm only saying this because I have seen it in so many responces to peoples posts here and other places.

< Message edited by slaveofKaos -- 11/22/2007 2:12:19 AM >

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slave jodi

(in reply to youngsubgeoff)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 5:32:07 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH
Is it possible to be assertive while still being submissive. What are your thoughts?
ghita~


Asserting one’s viewpoint is certainly possible within submission.  Asserting one’s will is not.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 6:42:01 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		that is a broad comment  depends upon the situation and then what action is called for

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 6:53:58 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

I am very assertive in my normal day to day life, however I am not allowed to be assertive when it comes to my Master. I can ask questions or suggest things but they can never come off as im asserting them.

edited to add: I don't uderstand why people don't know the definations of words. I would think that an OP was using the general defination of a word unless they specifically say so. I'm only saying this because I have seen it in so many responces to peoples posts here and other places.


If language was so easy it would be boring!   People don't always know definitions of words because many words have many definitions - assertive itself has a handful - depending on the context, the word can have different strengths - and it is the strengths of a word that often need to be understood and not just the word itself.  Face to face conversation is more advantageous than the written word at defining a words strength(inflection/mannerism/expression), which is why you often get so many varying observations on one single word on the forum here.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveofKaos)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 7:36:05 AM   
Cyntilating


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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

I am very assertive in my normal day to day life, however I am not allowed to be assertive when it comes to my Master. I can ask questions or suggest things but they can never come off as im asserting them.

edited to add: I don't uderstand why people don't know the definations of words. I would think that an OP was using the general defination of a word unless they specifically say so. I'm only saying this because I have seen it in so many responces to peoples posts here and other places.


If language was so easy it would be boring!   People don't always know definitions of words because many words have many definitions - assertive itself has a handful - depending on the context, the word can have different strengths - and it is the strengths of a word that often need to be understood and not just the word itself.  Face to face conversation is more advantageous than the written word at defining a words strength(inflection/mannerism/expression), which is why you often get so many varying observations on one single word on the forum here.
 
the.dark.

 
 sooo true!  : )
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 9:58:11 AM   
MrSpectacular


Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I would expect and thrive on subs who are assertive - it does not mean they are trying to be dominant or aggressive - for me it shows they have developed enough emotionally to speak their mind if they need to, to defend their boundaries. There is nothing more refreshing than being with a sub who can communicate what they like and enjoy. 

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Yes I am Spectacular and they are real!

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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/22/2007 10:51:42 AM   
MsPleasure


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/1/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, I've run into several assertive submissives.

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/23/2007 12:15:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
Asserting one’s viewpoint is certainly possible within submission.  Asserting one’s will is not.

Except when they are ordered/allowed to do so.

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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/23/2007 2:03:31 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH

hmmmm....while I definantly thank you all for your answers...I think maybe I should expand my question.

I am specifically asking about being assertive towards your Top (Dom, Sir, Domme, Mistress, Master, Daddy, whatever)..while still being submissive. This is an ongoing conversation I have been having offline with some friends and I would like some extra input. I purposefully tried to stay vauge in my first post because I didnt want to direct answers too much, but I guess I didnt direct them enough...lol. Assertiveness within your relationship...thats the topic Id like your thoughts on. Are you? How are you? If you are a top is your submissive? How? Do you find assertiveness a good quality or one you want to repress in some way? Thanks.

ghita~


it depends on the situation.  sometimes, yes.  to let Daddy know where my mind is, and where my needs are, i have to be assertive and let him know, or he has no idea how his actions might affect me.  and yeah, some days are a minefield.

if Daddy is ill and not taking care of himself, YES i will be downright aggressive in making sure he takes care of himself.  that's my right and responsibility as his sub/slave to take care of him. 

for me assertiveness is a hard thing.  in person i'm quite shy and i tend to not say much about my own needs or wants unless, like with Daddy, i am under standing orders to say where i am mentally/emotionally.  i grew up being told consistantly "children are to be seen and not heard"...and mama showed by example that only males get their way, or are to be listened to. 

but of course, this is all my opinion, and my experience. 

kitten

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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/23/2007 2:11:08 PM   
adoracat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I have my little ways of expression that get my point across.

As you wish.= I'm tired of arguing about it-we'll try again later.

Yeth, mithreth!!!!! = If you feel dominant today-go practice it in the mirror.


ouch....

"as you wish" is my default when i know i'm not going to win, that there is no way to make him see things from my viewpoint.  Daddy knows this is a giving-in phrase from me.

in our case...its generally when he's trying to tell me i'm beautiful, and i cant see it.

kitten, who is trying to remember this, which Daddy quoted the other night:  And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/23/2007 2:41:54 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Is it possible to be assertive while still being submissive. What are your thoughts?

I was about to go when your thread title struck a chord - so I haven't read other responses or anything you may have added since the OP.
 
But what struck me was your "incorrect" title....  lol  Where submissives are concerned (IMO), I've known assertive and *passive*, and I much prefer the former.  I like a girl who is playful and has a bit of mischief about her; who knows what she likes and wants; who can be stubborn and opinionated - and who equally responds positively (knows her place) when the reins are pulled.
 
The most boring and frustrating (D/s) relationship I was ever in was with a sub who *always* did as she was told; who, when asked for her opinion on something generally replied with "whatever you think/want" etc.  It drove me nuts - how does one discipline a bratty lapse if it never happens?  How does one have a spirited conversation when the other agrees with *everything*?
 
So yes, only ASSERTIVE subs need apply! 
 
Gotta go - will read the whole thread later....
 
Focus.

(in reply to ghitaPVH)
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RE: assertive vs submissive - 11/23/2007 3:20:49 PM   
BlueAngelEyes411


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Absolutely! I am a very assertive person.





I totally agree. I am very submissive but I am also very assertive. To me there is a big difference between being assertive and being aggressive.

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Be Safe,
BlueAngel

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Profile   Post #: 60
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