RE: Its a Matter Of Trust

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celticlord2112 -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/23/2007 2:09:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: silentfire Once a Master has lost your trust do you think it is possible to trust Him again ? Do you consider the possibility ? How do you forget the past transgression? silent................. Trust is always possible. It may not be advisable, but it is always possible. You won't "forget" the transgression. You can, however, choose to look past it. Trust is a choice. Trust is your choice. Make a choice.

pinksugarsub -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/23/2007 5:28:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: silentfire Once a Master has lost your trust do you think it is possible to trust Him again ? Do you consider the possibility ? How do you forget the past transgression? silent................. Depends entirely on the context. If He broke my trust by standing me up, i'd withhold judgment until i heard from Him. If He broke it by lying to me, i'd be gone. pinksugarsub

Kana -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/23/2007 7:55:29 PM)
For me, trust is something that is earned, not just given. Once that has been broken it has to be earned again. Whether I am willing to extend the opportunity to do so is a question of the avenue in which the trust was broken. There are some things that just happen, mistakes get made, miscommunications occur, but if something is done out of malice or spite, the chances of refaining my trust are fairly negligable.

slaveluci -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/23/2007 8:58:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann You have to ask yourself if it's worth remaining with the man or not. If you don't think you can give up on your own issue of forgiving and moving on, then I'd say you're doing yourself and your dominant a favor by moving on. Having said that, everyone makes mistakes; learning to move past those mistakes is a necessary part of all healthy relationships [sm=applause.gif]Amen to that, Stephann. I couldn't agree more. The bottom line, to me, is "Is this relationship worth saving?" If it is, I can work through most anything. Everyone does indeed make mistakes though you wouldn't know it to read some of the posts we see. Some people seem to be perfect[8\|], never needing forgiveness. I guess it's just hard for some people to admit. I absolutely agree that learning from mistakes and living through them and moving on is something one sees in mature, healthy, stable relationships. Others can't survive such growing pains..............luci

slaveluci -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/23/2007 9:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Trust can absolutely be regained...but its HARD...and the person who did the "breaking" needs to be willing to do *whatever it takes....for AS LONG* as it takes to get your trust back. On the surface, Candy, that sounds good. However, to me, one of the most toxic things that can happen is one partner making a mistake, either confessing or being found out, apologizing and truly meaning it, the offended partner vowing to get through it, and then making the "offender" wear a crown of thorns every day from there on out. I have been in a relationship where I was deeply hurt by lying and infidelity. It came down to either forgiving and moving on together or leaving. When I made the choice to forgive, I told him so. I felt he was truly sorry and repentant for what he'd done and I vowed that, upon forgiving him, I would never mention it again. I asked him to never mention it again either. I didn't insist that he do "whatever it takes" for "as long as it takes" to get my "trust back" because, by discussing it and making the active choice to forgive and move on, I felt I was giving him my trust back right at that instant until such time as he were to violate it again. Then, there would have been a major problem. I see your point and it may work for some. For me, that would have been like dredging it up each day anew. I made the choice to move on together, forgiving and trying to forget, and that could not also involve him having to try each day to regain my trust.................luci

michaels4evr -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 12:46:22 AM)
some breeches of trust are greater than others and will require time in order to be "looked past." i don't believe in forgiving until the person has 1) asked for my forgiveness; 2) asked what they can do to regain my trust 3) accomplished those things I needed done. Even after I forgive..it is possible that I will not again trust that person..depending on how that trust was broken. This is a subject very close to my heart right now. I am hoping for an positive outcome. Thank you for your perspective juliet. -michael's

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 1:26:26 AM)
I think it's more a repeated breaking of trust that makes it a deal-breaker I would have to agree with the above quote....Tempting

breatheasone -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 1:38:40 AM)
Trust is important....It would be nice if it had a harder shell....lol

julietsierra -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 3:10:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaels4evr i don't believe in forgiving until the person has 1) asked for my forgiveness; 2) asked what they can do to regain my trust 3) accomplished those things I needed done. See, after 18 years of hurt, apologies, honeymoon periods, only to be hurt again, over and over and over and over again, always trying to believe and stay together " for the sake of the family," I'm more than through with apologies. I don't want to hear them. Just. Don't. How many times as a kiddo were we all told "Apologize to your sister/brother/cousin/friend" ? And we'd hem and haw and stammer our way through an apology we never meant or cared about one way or the other. Sometimes, even as we were apologizing, we were vowing we'd get back at the person we were being forced to apologize to for having to apologize to them in the first place. Apologies mean nothing to me. And how many times have people apologized to us and we've said "oh, that's all right" when it truly wasn't? Apologies mean nothing. My Master doesn't apologize though, and I really like that about him. It's not like he's shrugging his shoulders with the attitude of "tough toenails, get over it" or anything like that. Like me, he doesn't believe in them. He'd rather see change than hear it'll happen. Instead of apologizing though, what we do put effort into is significant conversation between the two of us on WHY things were done in a specific manner. We do discuss misconceptions and misunderstandings and outright lies. When we had our big fallout, we discussed his perception of the situation and mine. We took our time and we dealt with the defenses that naturally come up during these kinds of conversations. Eventually, we reached a point where he understood that I meant what I said when I told him what I couldn't do and that what he was dealing with was me being hurt when he did exactly that. After that, we moved forward. There were no apologies. There was no promise to never do it again. There was nothing but an understanding between the two of us as to what had happened and what needed to happen in the future and that was that. From that point we were done talking about it. I didn't wait for some moment in time where I would think "ok, he's proven himself to me" before we continued our relationship. I took him at face value and made the decision to recognize that he's an intelligent man who understands all that's happened. I left it up to him as to whether he would choose to do what caused the big fallout all over again or not and then, relied on time to heal what words could not. In my world, actions speak louder than words any time. And frankly, if I'd waited for him to "prove" he meant what he said to me, I'd have waited a long time because it took a long time for me to stop knee-jerking to myself every time I felt insecure about things. The point is though that eventually I did stop for the most part. Sometimes, even now, I start to knee-jerk. Only now, when I feel that coming on, I'm able to pause and take a look at what's happening in my life. I'm generally able to find that my knee-jerk reactions have nothing to do with him. And that's when I have the opportunity to decide all over again that I'm here for long haul. I'm not going anywhere. I'm submitting. And so far, I can say he's never insulted me with a reluctant apology that he didn't mean in the first place. I can say I've never demanded he jump through hoops to regain is place as my Master as if he could lose that position and somehow be "demoted.". He simply "is" and always will be. And I can say that it's been absolutely the right decision for me. juliet

michaels4evr -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 6:38:39 AM)
I understand what you mean juliet, and as I said some infractions carry more weight than others. When there are little people involved, there are some things that just CAN NOT be allowed to happen again. When issues of safety come into play, its simply not good enough for me to understand he is an intelligent person who makes mistakes. Some mistakes lead to loss of life or freedom. It is not my desire to experience either one of those. (and actually mistake isn't the correct term here..he made a decision. The decision he made had severe consequences. It wasn't some oopsie that had an inadvertant negative impact.) To me, earning the trust back is not about him saying he's sorry, or speaking any other words. Rather, its proof over time that what happened won't happen again. Its putting things in place to ensure that it won't. Two minutes before it happened you couldn't have paid me a million bucks to say that it would ever happen. Therefore, there is no way for me to get back to that point unless he is willing to do what I need him to do to reassure me that it won't. And even then, it is possible that that won't be enough. However, if his apology was reluctant, then of course we would be totally through. His admission that he is at fault would not diminish his status in my eyes, quite the opposite actually. I could not respect someone who was not willing to admit to his frailties and be will to make amends. And btw, he released me, so we aren't even talking about my choice to stay in a D/s relationship with him. We are married with little people. For now we are still co-habitating, but as he released me, it seems we are now at square one. Thanks for your continued insight. -michael's

julietsierra -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 7:07:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaels4evr I understand what you mean juliet, and as I said some infractions carry more weight than others. When there are little people involved, there are some things that just CAN NOT be allowed to happen again. When issues of safety come into play, its simply not good enough for me to understand he is an intelligent person who makes mistakes. Some mistakes lead to loss of life or freedom. It is not my desire to experience either one of those. (and actually mistake isn't the correct term here..he made a decision. The decision he made had severe consequences. It wasn't some oopsie that had an inadvertant negative impact.) To me, earning the trust back is not about him saying he's sorry, or speaking any other words. Rather, its proof over time that what happened won't happen again. Its putting things in place to ensure that it won't. Two minutes before it happened you couldn't have paid me a million bucks to say that it would ever happen. Therefore, there is no way for me to get back to that point unless he is willing to do what I need him to do to reassure me that it won't. And even then, it is possible that that won't be enough. However, if his apology was reluctant, then of course we would be totally through. His admission that he is at fault would not diminish his status in my eyes, quite the opposite actually. I could not respect someone who was not willing to admit to his frailties and be will to make amends. And btw, he released me, so we aren't even talking about my choice to stay in a D/s relationship with him. We are married with little people. For now we are still co-habitating, but as he released me, it seems we are now at square one. Thanks for your continued insight. -michael's I understand. I don't agree with that process, but everyone's different. Relationships are relationships and little ones or not, relationships are relationships. Other than the issues at stake if moms and dads break up, I'm not sure how little ones have a bearing on "safety" within a D/s relationship or why they are even part of the equation. No disrespect meant, but aside from the obvious issues such as drugs and killing someone, I can't think of a situation where I would demand he jump through hoops. I wanted a relationship where he was directly in charge - not just in charge as long as I liked what was happening. Consequently, my goal is to have myself heard without disrupting that dynamic.He absolutely gets to make up his own mind about what he wants to do and when and how and with whom. I only asked for what I needed within the context of that. I believe that looking for constant reassurance that something won't happen is keeping a carrot in front of the horse in order to get him to do the work. The fact is, you can't EVER know it won't happen again. So this keeps the person always striving for approval and that's something I just won't be a part of. Again, no disrespect intended because everyone's situation is different, but to me, every time I read about demanding reassurances, earning trust back as if it's the golden ring, etc, I'm reminded of the poodles at the circus jumping through the hoops and turning circles at the hands of the ringmaster and that's a concept that's pretty much an anethma to me. The bottom line is that someone could strive for their entire lives and never regain trust. They could do every single thing right forever and be the perfect individual, and never reach a point where they can know that the events that caused the whole loss of trust in the first place had been put in the category of a difficult but past memory. In the end, regardless of the hoops that people are made to jump through, it STILL comes down to the decision on the part of the "wronged" party to move on. So... I just skip all that other stuff in the middle and make my decision from where I stand - all things being equal... no one being perfect. But like I said, everyone's different. juliet

michaels4evr -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 7:19:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra . In the end, regardless of the hoops that people are made to jump through, it STILL comes down to the decision on the part of the "wronged" party to move on. this is exactly my point...its up to me to make the decision to move on and in my own time..But sorry without the middle stuff..there is no way for me to do that. And if he isn't willing to stick around and see if I can eventually move on, then that is up to him. And you could be right, i may never get there. i guess i just would have a problem with someone who wasn't willing to put in the work required, if he were indeed the one who committed the offense. and in terms of the little people, they come into play because there are some things that i just might be willing to endure, but as I am responsible for their wellbeing, I have to keep that foremost in my mind, as should he. thanks again, -m

KnightofMists -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 7:39:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: silentfire Once a Master has lost your trust do you think it is possible to trust Him again ? Do you consider the possibility ? How do you forget the past transgression? silent................. Yes it is possible... but not for everyone and not for every incident. How one works past it will be different for everyone and will particularly affected by the incident itself.

Sabella -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 7:55:57 AM)
I love this thread [:)] Thank you Julietsierra!!!! quote: quote: ORIGINAL: silentfire Once a Master has lost your trust do you think it is possible to trust Him again ? Do you consider the possibility ? How do you forget the past transgression? silent................. I too think it depends on the transgression. If it was maliciously done to hurt you, then that's another problem in and of itself besides the loss of trust. What's the motive for deliberately hurting someone else? And if this is the case then that's something they need to work on - you trusting or not trusting a rabid dog won't stop them from biting you again. I don't think things that happen in relationships should be forgotten. Time will ease the sting somewhat but at every defining point a decison has to be made to let that boulder of a problem either tear down what you are building together - or become part of the foundation. People aren't perfect. Mistakes happen, people get hurt. Just don't make the mistake of trying to bury it thinking "I'll just forget about it" you need to talk about it. We all have our trust point with issues dealing with everyone. I've got a former friend I've accepted I can't trust not to deliberately hurt me. Over time the boulder kept coming up because of his repeat passive aggressive actions and words. He can't be trusted in this department so I had to let the friendship go. I can't trust my husband to take the trash out on Tuesdays [:D] though we've had trash every week for many many years he never can seem to remember it! I can't trust my cat not to drink out of my water glass if it's on the floor. In all these instances (silly as they are I know) I had to decide not only how I was going to react in the future to these things but if it is worth continuing the relationship based on all the other good things. I'll keep the husband and the cat. [:)]

Vanatru -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 8:12:43 AM)
laughs This all smacks of WAY too much drama.

julietsierra -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 9:18:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vanatru laughs This all smacks of WAY too much drama. what drama? juliet

breatheasone -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/24/2007 9:21:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub I think it's more a repeated breaking of trust that makes it a deal-breaker I would have to agree with the above quote....Tempting Yes I agree with this as well...its not always "The big one"....... That slow wearing away of trust can slowly kill a relationship right under your nose if you aren't careful.

kinkypuppy2 -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/27/2007 3:22:16 PM)
No it is not possable. The level of trust needs to be as close to absolute as possable

BrokenSaint -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/27/2007 6:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Trust can absolutely be regained...but its HARD...and the person who did the "breaking" needs to be willing to do *whatever it takes....for AS LONG* as it takes to get your trust back. Could not have possibly said this better. Taking into account the nature of the infraction of course is assumed in doing whatever it takes to get the trust back. Sometimes it is impossible. Depends on severity, and the nature and temperment of both people, and their own views on trust for how long, and if it takes to get back.

juliaoceania -> RE: Its a Matter Of Trust (11/27/2007 6:56:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: silentfire Had never had reson to doubt Him in the past.............never once do I feel I was ever lied too................nonetheless something is off................Just a gut instinct something I never experienced before.............. To the original question in the OP, yes it is possible to rebuild trust... but there are so many variables to whether or not it is possible in a particular case it would be very hard to answer that question for a specific person that one knows well... much less answer it on a message board. I quoted the above to address it... it is really hard to know what is setting off your alarm bells, but unless you are willing to share that, there is really no way to even begin to address your original question... There is something that he is doing or not doing that has set off this distrust in you. I would trust my instincts more than any other person alive, and then I would confront the situation from there.

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