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RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 4:06:04 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
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one time, my first dominant and i were driving with my two imps, and three of his friends, some 50 miles to go to a large flea market. his friend started making some very racist comments. i was driving, my car.

i gave him a direct look, and the choice of changing the topic immediately or me stopping at the side of the interstate and letting him out. he shut up. i told my dominant that he had a choice....change his thinking or change his sub. after some two weeks of not seeing me, he decided i was more important than his former attitude.

i'm southern. my family fought in the confederacy during the civil war. i'm proud of my ancestors for fighting for what they believed in. my ancestors were slaveowners. i, however, am not. people are people, with all human rights, and i will treat them as people till they prove themselves assholes.

i've seen nicely dressed men on a bus ignore an old woman who needed a seat....i've seen thuggish dressed young men help an old man change a tire. people....are people. their skin is protection from the elements. their soul is what counts.

kitten, pondering things.

(in reply to kittengirl8)

Post #: 21

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 4:11:13 PM

caringlord

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Joined: 4/30/2007
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Fair enough, and I am not excusing racist comments, nor am I prejudiced myself, but I want to make one thing VERY clear. Statistics don't lie.

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 22

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 4:15:32 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caringlord

Fair enough, and I am not excusing racist comments, nor am I prejudiced myself, but I want to make one thing VERY clear. Statistics don't lie.

facts dont lie. statistics can be skewed to fit the questions.

am i saying that some groups dont fit stereotypes? oh absolutely they do, and they take pride in doing so.

i'm saying that i personally try to hold to a certain standard, and give people the benefit of the doubt before they show their true spirits.

kitten, not disagreeing with you, just stating my opinion

(in reply to caringlord)

Post #: 23

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 4:53:58 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
How do you respond when you discover that your partner has opposing views on a subject, and they hold a view which you find to be unacceptable? Has anyone else been in such a situation? What do you do, if anything? And how do you react?

Do you up and walk away? Does it become a taboo subject area for you both? Would you try and seek to change your partner's views? Or do you simply just accept that it's part of them?

Your thoughts and views please.

Fortunately, Master and I pretty much agree totally on most all subjects. The one exception I can think of is gun control. He is pretty much for tight gun control and I am not necessarily so. I grew up in a home with gun owners and hunters and we were taught from a very young age not to play with guns and how to handle them appropriately. I also believe people should be able to own handguns for their own protection. He doesn't really think they should. We discuss our opinions and realize we disagree and why we disagree but it's not something important enough to argue about.

Fortunately on issues such as religion, abortion, the death penalty, etc., we really see eye to eye. I'm not sure how I would feel if we strongly disagreed. I'm just glad we do not. I don't think anything would be important enough to make me walk away unless He would try to force me to go against my own beliefs/ethics in any area. That hasn't ever happened and I don't think it ever will. He is accepting of opinions that clash with His own...............luci

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(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 24

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 6:22:13 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caringlord

Fair enough, and I am not excusing racist comments, nor am I prejudiced myself, but I want to make one thing VERY clear. Statistics don't lie.

ROFL having taken several graduate courses in statistics, participated in the manipulation of them and using them to my advantage where necessary, I have to tell you, this statement is silly. Statistics do lie, most studies are flawed and saying racism is supported by statistics is incredibly unintelligent.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to caringlord)

Post #: 25

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 6:24:16 PM

laurell3

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: caringlord

Fair enough, and I am not excusing racist comments, nor am I prejudiced myself, but I want to make one thing VERY clear. Statistics don't lie.

ROFL having taken several graduate courses in statistics, participated in the manipulation of them and using them to my advantage where necessary, I have to tell you, this statement is silly. Statistics do lie, most studies are flawed and saying racism is supported by statistics is incredibly unintelligent.

You should also keep in mind that many times those statistics exist BECAUSE of racism.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 26

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 6:30:23 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: caringlord

Fair enough, and I am not excusing racist comments, nor am I prejudiced myself, but I want to make one thing VERY clear. Statistics don't lie.

ROFL having taken several graduate courses in statistics, participated in the manipulation of them and using them to my advantage where necessary, I have to tell you, this statement is silly. Statistics do lie, most studies are flawed and saying racism is supported by statistics is incredibly unintelligent.

I have to vehemently disagree.......I make excellent bucks, to prove that statistics do not EVER lie, but portray a world that convieniently eludcidate exactly what my Board of Directors wanted to say but were mathematically incapable of, and I was found with the werewithal to express the very fundamental precepts that they had in their secret ganglion.

Myrddin Emrys

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 27

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 7:07:46 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
My question is this. How do you respond when you discover that your partner has opposing views on a subject, and they hold a view which you find to be unacceptable? Has anyone else been in such a situation? What do you do, if anything? And how do you react?

Do you up and walk away? Does it become a taboo subject area for you both? Would you try and seek to change your partner's views? Or do you simply just accept that it's part of them?

Your thoughts and views please.

Your reaction is based on your 'stuff'. Are you able to be tolerant and accept that they have unacceptable views in your eyes? Or, is it simply so offensive that you sense of justice can't let it go? If the former, assuming that there's nothing else seriously wrong with the relationship, I'd say stay. If the latter, you'll never be able to deal with it and I'd say go.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 28

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 8:48:29 PM

Solinear

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

L:ast night whilst chatting to Mistress on IM something came up which may become a major conflict or it may not..

She expressed views which were racist...

...My question is this. How do you respond when you discover that your partner has opposing views on a subject, and they hold a view which you find to be unacceptable? Has anyone else been in such a situation? What do you do, if anything? And how do you react?

Do you up and walk away? Does it become a taboo subject area for you both? Would you try and seek to change your partner's views? Or do you simply just accept that it's part of them?

Your thoughts and views please.

Being someone who has worked in areas where there are high populations of minorities (Detroit) and after driving by houses that were *literally* falling down piece by piece, but had a car worth double what the house could have sold for (on a good day, to suckers), I have a relatively jaded view of many black people in the US. It wasn't just the cars either... I worked with some (black, again) people who I literally had to lecture into submission when they got a new credit card because they wanted to go buy a fur coat because they "just got $3000". It took me hours and hours over the course of a week, with two other black people backing me up to finally convince him that he didn't have $3000, he had a way to lose $5000-$10,000 from his future paychecks. He had a way to live broke because he didn't want to just save up for a fur coat. $120 jeans? Nothing to many black people. $80 sweater that they'll wear for three months? Yep, they'll do it.

Now don't get me wrong. Many of my best friends have been (and still are) black. They don't exhibit these behavioral traits. They make their kids study hard in school, they save money as they can and they are working towards a better future for themselves and their children in 10 years, not just looking good in a car that they can barely afford while living in a house that is a deathtrap.

Am I prejudiced? I prefer to say that I'm jaded by my experiences. I am cordial and polite to everyone I meet, but until I see contrary evidence with some types of minorities, I will assume that they are just like the others that I have met, just like I would assume that a telemarketer is going to do everything he can to keep me on the phone and get my to agree to buy something. The only difference is that I'm going to be rude to the telemarketer and hang up on them.

I am in no way justifying your mistress' potentially bigoted remarks, but I didn't hear what she said and can't say whether it was a jaded remark or a bigoted one. Some people might call me bigoted, regardless of the fact that I spent almost my entire Thanksgiving over a black family's house because they're our best friends. Everyone's perspective is a bit different, sometimes it takes leaning a little out of your own to see what you think is a brown yard is actually pretty darn green when you're not looking through your red sunglasses.

< Message edited by Solinear -- 11/23/2007 8:58:03 PM >

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 29

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/23/2007 9:55:17 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

My question is this. How do you respond when you discover that your partner has opposing views on a subject, and they hold a view which you find to be unacceptable? Has anyone else been in such a situation? What do you do, if anything? And how do you react?

I was in a situation once where I went to San Francisco with a recentlly retired Marine that I was dating that was working on his teaching credential. We spent a couple of days there. He was a handsome guy, but he was very conservative. He was so good looking I tried to overlook his conservativism... what a bad idea! We argued the whole entire time. He kept bringing up stuff that bugged me, and left early, I actually hopped a train to get the fuck away from this man because he said, and I quote "Hitler has his good points". I did not wait to hear him explain this statement, I just got my suitcase out and started packing it. He has never had a woman do something like that before

. He was the last conservative (and I think the only conservative actually) that I have ever went out with

I do not date racists, conservatives, Bible thumpers, and other assorted people that I know will end up pushing my buttons... conservative is a hard limit for me.

I will only be involved with people that share my values, and my Daddy very much does. This does not mean that we never disagree, but the things that we disagree about do not go to the core of our belief systems... and I think that having differences is a good thing to some extent mind you

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/23/2007 9:56:26 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 30

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 4:50:40 AM

Decimus

Posts: 174
Joined: 9/17/2007
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I just want to let you know Solinear that your comment is racist, and you are a type of racist, a stereotypical racist. You see some of a group doing one thing so you stereotype the entire population segment and assume based on that. Yes I see how you could have been jaded by experiences but your path does not follow a logical straight line. It has nothing to do with the African American race group it has to do with human stupidity. You will encounter people of ALL ages and races that have the same stupid views of money. My philosophy is that 99% of the world is completely retarded, until "you" prove otherwise I'll not believe "you" (you in this case is relating to any person I meet) are in the 1%. If you would like me to prove that with statistics well just read up the % of people who are over genius IQ in the world. That view may help you avoid being considered a racist, but you can still have near the same views however it is now not directed at a specific group of people which is why your comments are considered racist comments.

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(in reply to Solinear)

Post #: 31

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 5:03:38 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

If i found out someone i was interested in was racist, i would have to dump them. i just don't need that kind of bs in my life and i can't see putting up with it in a mate.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 32

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 5:08:39 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eroticangel

i am by no means saying i am racist, because i am not, but, don't we all have a right to our preferences? i mean maybe you like red hair or blue eyes....so i don't think it makes you a racist to prefer one color skin over another

Having a preference is normal. Most people have preference in women, food, music, etc...

Now, when you prefer blue eyes, because everyone know that people with green eyes are ignorant scum and not really worthy to walk on the same streets as us wonderful blue eyed people, then you have a problem. Racists don't prefer one over the other, they feel they are superior to the other.

(in reply to eroticangel)

Post #: 33

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 5:22:32 AM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

With the exception of my family, i don't have to let A/anyone into my life i don't want...........and i don't want bigots. To me it would be like living with ugly wallpaper and bad music and no food; why would A/anyone put up with it if T/they didn't have to?

pinksugarsub

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(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 34

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 5:24:54 AM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
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Wow, you worked in Detroit and drove by those houses, and your still alive to tell the tale. You must be so brave. And because of this you have become jaded.....hmmmm....so we should just ignore your "jadedness" because after all, anyone forced to endure that, would naturally be a little jaded.

It's odd, because i have lived in the Detroit area most of my life. Have actually lived in the city, in the same neighborhoods as those houses and i don't feel jaded. i don't wait until someone proves they are a decent person, before i stop assuming they are not. i just assume they are decent from the start and if they prove me wrong, then i ignore them. Not everyone that looks like them, but just that individual idiot.

(in reply to Solinear)

Post #: 35

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 5:33:47 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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Stella, I think it depends on how much you can compromise. Someone that holds deep racist views are unlikely to change them. They may not say the words near you but they will still think the words and use them around others. Others.. are often like-minded people which is why they feel free to be racists. It feels to me that this is something very important to you, it formed your childhood and it goes deep inside of you. So I really think you need to decide, is this something you can bear to hear? Can you bear the casual racist remarks and derogatory statements without cringing inside? I honestly do not think you can alter anothers thinking when it comes to this topic unless they are willing to change. Most people that hold views like that are not willing to change, they believe. You can become like that so there is less stress. You can ignore it and try and deal with it silently. You can speak up when it happens and hope things change. From personal experience I can tell you that it hurt me. It hurt and shamed me inside to be with someone who held such views. I felt contaminated to a degree because I was linked to it by association. He would not change because he literally saw no reason to. So I kept quiet for a very long time which to me means that I condoned his behaviour. Which in turn made me feel like crap inside because that is not who I am. Prioritize I guess, just try and think what really matters to you.

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~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 36

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/24/2007 2:26:52 PM

TexasMaam

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Joined: 6/22/2005
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As with anything else in WIITWD, you have to determine your hard limits and stick to them.

Dealbreakers, those issues that come down to a fundamental difference in beliefs and lifestlye always end in grief, if ignored.

Walk on.

TexasMaam

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 37

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/25/2007 4:57:23 AM

DaisyDestruction

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/13/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline

I tend to think very little of certain types of people, and bigots and racists fall into that category very firmly. If I knew someone and found out later that they were a racist, I don't think I could ever look at them the same way again, and it would be a total deal breaker for a relationship.

(in reply to kittengirl8)

Post #: 38

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/25/2007 6:36:54 AM

pleasureforck

Posts: 95
Joined: 7/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittengirl8

I was thinking through the question, and realized: You know, some people consider me racist, simply because of some things I said, but I definitely DON'T think a single race is better than another. Nor do I discriminate against a person based solely upon the race/ethnicity. So I'm going to have to say, seriously, some comments seem racist to some people, but aren't really.

"There were so many Mexicans at the mall! When did the demographic change so strikingly?" Is not a racist comment, and yet, some people seem to think it is. Uh, why? *shrug* So, talk about it before you completely end a relationship. If it's a blatantly obvious racist comment "Uh, did you see that stupid <insert demeaning comment about someone of another race>?" (That was racist because it was specifically insulting someone because of their race, without knowing the person.)
Now, if I were to jokingly say "Hey my <insert random odd race-related word>! How're you going stupid?" That's not racist, that just silliness. (Though... I don't talk like that. I usually use names, or "Hey you!" but that's not the point.) The moral of this story: Talk, communicate, analyze!

I had to comment on this. My UM's are biracial and my Sir has just moved in. He is not racist at all but does say things like those mexican guys or those black guys. He grew up in Brooklyn and thats how they speak. Personally I feel that there is no reason to point out race or nationality when talking about someone. Why not just say those guys? I asked him to stop saying this because it bothered me. I didn't want him talking like that in front of my UM's either. I was afraid they would think he was racist and not like him. He didn't see this as racist but since I did he respected my feelings by agreeing to stop.

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Post #: 39

RE: Agree to disagree? - 11/25/2007 7:30:53 AM

BBBTBW

Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Stella, I think it depends on how much you can compromise. Someone that holds deep racist views are unlikely to change them. They may not say the words near you but they will still think the words and use them around others. Others.. are often like-minded people which is why they feel free to be racists. It feels to me that this is something very important to you, it formed your childhood and it goes deep inside of you. So I really think you need to decide, is this something you can bear to hear? Can you bear the casual racist remarks and derogatory statements without cringing inside? I honestly do not think you can alter anothers thinking when it comes to this topic unless they are willing to change. Most people that hold views like that are not willing to change, they believe. You can become like that so there is less stress. You can ignore it and try and deal with it silently. You can speak up when it happens and hope things change. From personal experience I can tell you that it hurt me. It hurt and shamed me inside to be with someone who held such views. I felt contaminated to a degree because I was linked to it by association. He would not change because he literally saw no reason to. So I kept quiet for a very long time which to me means that I condoned his behaviour. Which in turn made me feel like crap inside because that is not who I am. Prioritize I guess, just try and think what really matters to you.

Agreed with that whole quote.

Eventually, especially as a submissive. You become known by the company you keep. Is this really someone you want to represent and to represent you? the decision is yours

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 40

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