RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket....

RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Owner59 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/29/2007 10:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado There is a word for people who aggressively rush toward a problem and stick their noses in, while everyone else is going the other way... I'll bet you even know what that word is, don't you? [;)] Fools. As is in " Fools rush in ,where angels fear to tread"

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 12:37:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 All Rights are INALIENABLE. PRIVILEGES may be granted and revoked. Wierd thing though, you can be put in jail (liberty), I guess y'all don't remember DUE PROCESS. I realize I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion with people who SUPPORT letting Police torture people arbitrarily. Why even bother?

luckydog1 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 1:02:45 AM)
Refusing to comply with a lawfull order is not arbitrary.

luckydog1 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 2:00:32 AM)
Actually Farg I included the caveat of Due Process in my post, you cut that part out for some reason. But you do seem to love edited quotes, and base most of your arguments on them. Yes there is little point in you pretending things that are specific are arbitrary,

mnottertail -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 5:02:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Refusing to comply with a lawfull order is not arbitrary. That is a military thing. refusing to comply with a cop is not always jail time. But if they are a horrid prick, well, it aint the first time I have been in jail, or pounded the dogshit out of a policeman. Ron

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 7:51:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Refusing to comply with a lawfull order is not arbitrary. Where is the permission to torture people who are disobedient, without order or oversight delegated? The permission to use force to effect an arrest ( In this instance, in Utah ) is codified under 77-7-7, and is dependent on the proper adherence to 77-7-6, WHICH IN THIS INSTANCE WAS NOT FOLLOWED. Therefore, to suggest that this driver was NOT arbitrarily tased is dishonest. Once again, I wonder why I bother trying to have a reasonable discussion with apologists for torturers, and Totalitarian Appeasers.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 8:19:24 AM)
Maybe it's the kind of board we're on. Some of us may be using tasers in non-standard manners already. Here's how to even the playing field: http://www.beststungun.com/ Never leave home without it... [;)]

Alumbrado -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 8:27:43 AM)
quote: Given your VERY, VERY LIBERAL interpretation of Utah 77-7-6, that wouldn't surprise me. You mis-spelled 'Literal'.[sm=biggrin.gif]

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 9:02:01 AM)
"(a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape;" I've already detailed your inability to support your claim of that exemption. That's where the video-tape is so damning to this officer. The ONLY reason he deployed his torture device, is because HE WAS FRUSTRATED AND LOST HIS COOL. In retrospect, the people hiring for UHP should have caught the mentally unstable officer candidate before he was ever permitted to join the force, but AT LEAST THIS VICTIM DIDN'T GET KILLED, so it's good he's off the street sooner rather than later...

Alumbrado -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 9:04:20 AM)
"Reason to believe'...not 'Reason that FB will accept'. As the USSC said armchair quarterbacking is worthless as an indicator of excessive force, and armchair quarterbacking is all you've shown so far..

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 10:00:14 AM)
What "reason to believe" was there that the officer's safety was in any doubt, preventing him from notifying the Victim of his authority and intent? Which still never answers, what prevented the officer from satisfying 77-7-6 PRIOR to ordering the Victim out of his car in the first place. Poor Hiring, Poor Training, Poor Supervision. We'll see how the Discipline and Termination phases work out, but I expect UHP will avoid liability for this nutjob's psycho-episode.

luckydog1 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 10:13:57 AM)
"(a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape;" Farg you have to look at the "OR". If the officer simply stood there giving a speech while the suspect walked away and got in his car, it would likely enable him to escape. And getting into a fist fight on the side of the road would endanger the officer and the perp. The officer in question most certainly did adhere to your cited clause A. And the use of force met the standard outlined in the law. You wanting to pretend that only the first part of the clause matters, is simply you attempting to edit the facts. And is incredibly dishonest of you, but that's par for the course with you. "Or" does not mean "and". The event was video taped and will certainly be examined, hence there is oversight and supervision. And authority is delgated to Police Officers, by the state. Other than you hating Police Officers, the Law and the USA what exactly is your argument?

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 11:05:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 "(a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape;" Farg you have to look at the "OR". It is inapplicable in this case. Sure, it might apply in other circumstances. That's why the legislature explicitly carved out that exemption. However, it's CLEAR from the video tape, and the officer's own actions and words both prior and subsequent to the torture, that FLIGHT was never a concern. If it was a concern, then the suspect would have been IMMEDIATELY confined to the cage in the back of the patrol car. quote: If the officer simply stood there giving a speech" Why do you mis-characterize the DUTY of informing the arrestee, "You are Under arrest for _Fill in Charge_"? as anything more than the few seconds it is? That neglects, "Why wasn't 77-7-6 followed PRIOR to ordering the victim out of the vehicle?" or at any other time EVEN AFTER DRAWING THE TORTURE DEVICE? quote: while the suspect walked away and got in his car, it would likely enable him to escape. It is MORE LIKELY that if the Victim was PROPERLY ARRESTED, he wouldn't have attempted to walk away from the crazy person. I have no problem with people submitting to LAWFUL authority. In this case, the officer screwed up all along the line. Maybe it's the "New York" thing, and we have higher standards than some hick in Utah?

Alumbrado -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 1:53:19 PM)
Notifying the vicitim of his authority? You've never even read Mendenhall have you FB?

farglebargle -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 2:13:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Notifying the vicitim of his authority? You've never even read Mendenhall have you FB? Is your reading comprehension so poor, that you do not see the word AUTHORITY in Utah 77-7-6(1) ? quote: 77-7-6. Manner of making arrest. (1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him.

Invictus754 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 2:39:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne first off tasers are leathal. maybe not to every person on the planet but they do kill people hence they are lethal. If you drink too much water it is lethal. Hence you should stop drinking water? Your argument is so flawed.

Invictus754 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 3:03:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy We have become a country of pussies. Don't question shit and if you ever have contact with a cop it is because you were doing something wrong. They are always right...The kid wasn't swearing or being disrespectful...I think he was really confused by the situation and how quickly the cop unnecessarily allowed it to escalate. As the cop told him "the side of the road is not the place to argue". The policeman did not pull this guy over because he liked him - the little kid was speeding. The kid should have STFU and signed the ticket. You're right - the kid was a pussy. A young, inexperenced pussy that will be able to tell his kids they should not fuck with the police. You know, if motorists had never tried to shoot, run over, stab or beat up police officers who were trying to give them a simple fucking ticket, then the police would probably be a whole lot nicer and a little more empathetic. My question is: why didn't the little peckerhead want to sign the ticket? All of you armchair lawyers (that know "their is no law that says you have to sign it") should know that signing a ticket doesn't mean you are guilty, either - so giving a police office a hard time about it makes no sense. Especially since it can escalate into something like going to jail.

Alumbrado -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 3:05:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Notifying the vicitim of his authority? You've never even read Mendenhall have you FB? Is your reading comprehension so poor, that you do not see the word AUTHORITY in Utah 77-7-6(1) ? quote: 77-7-6. Manner of making arrest. (1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him. The poor reading comprehension comes in to play with your insistence that the above cite contains the words 'prior to '. The USSC in the controlling case on this issue clearly stated that any reasonable person confronted by a badge, uniform, drawn weapon, raised voice, et al. would understand that they were not free to leave, i.e. under arrest. That means that the official announcement of said arrest need not be made at any particular time. That also makes this individual's actions part of the 'reason to believe' that they were attempting to avoid an arrest, thus opening the door for use of force to obtain compliance. Feel free to explain how the Court doesn't understand the law, compared to your 'expertise'...should be amusing.

Owner59 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 3:10:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Maybe it's the kind of board we're on. Some of us may be using tasers in non-standard manners already. Here's how to even the playing field: http://www.beststungun.com/ Never leave home without it... [;)] I like the baton.

Invictus754 -> RE: Police taser man for alleged speeding ticket.... (11/30/2007 3:11:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Is your reading comprehension so poor, that you do not see the word AUTHORITY in Utah 77-7-6(1) ? quote: 77-7-6. Manner of making arrest. (1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him. I think it could be argued that his authority was apparent - he was a officer of the law. You forgot to include the remainder of 77-7-6: quote: Such notice shall not be required when: (a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape; (b) the person being arrested is actually engaged in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, an offense; or (c) the person being arrested is pursued immediately after the commission of an offense or an escape. Since the lad was "engaged in the commission of" the officer probably didn't have to actually TELL him " I am a police offier of the state and I have the authority to arrest you under statute 77-7-6" 77-7-7 also goes on to add: quote: 77-7-7. Force in making arrest. If a person is being arrested and flees or forcibly resists after being informed of the intention to make the arrest, the person arresting may use reasonable force to effect the arrest. Deadly force may be used only as provided in Section 76-2-404.

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125