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AbsitInvidia -> Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 10:34:56 AM)

It seems that just about every thread related to Pro Domination is about prostitution.  And that's boring...so I wanted to start a new one.

When I was a Pro Domme (waaaay back when about two weeks ago LOL) I always used to joke that it in no way conflicted with my submissive nature because I wasn't actually dominating anyone.  I was putting on the act of dominating but I was really just there playing a part in my client's fantasy.  So really the term "Pro Dom/me" should be changed to "Service Top" - even though that doesn't sound as glamourous.

Just wanted to get some more opinions on that.  Are there any pros out there who demand tribute...and then do whatever you feel like doing?  Make a corporal punishment guy kiss your feet for an hour or have a foot fetishist stay still and be your shibari model?  I don't know if that really would bring any repeat business...but maybe there's a middle ground where the Pro is still in control of everything...just sort of focusing it around the client's fantasies?

Just wondering...are there any other Pros who have felt like they were just an actress or a Service Top?  I was reading Akasha's story "The Bitch in High Heels" and it made me think about this...being a Pro Domme is basically catering to the 'do-me' subs.  Sure you might maintain the illusion of domination, but that's mainly to fulfill the client's fantasy - so he thinks that you really really really want to do whatever it is he really really really wants you to do.

Interested in opening a dialogue...thank you all for your replies in advance.

Soshi




LadyPact -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 11:19:10 AM)

I am not a pro, so I might not be qualified to answer your question.
 
The reason I'm responding is because, at times, I fill the catagory of service Top.  Even as I'm typing that out, I question Myself because if it really was a "service only" agreement, I'm not especially sure it's completely clear.  After all, if I wasn't getting something out of it, and really 'serving' another, I don't think I'd participate.  There has to be something in it for Me as well.  I wouldn't just use My skills for the benefit of another without some bonus in it.
 
With that being said, if I find a bottom who is craving receiving the same things that I'm craving to give, what's wrong with going for it?  In a Top/bottom situation, I have no delusions of actual domination.  I have someone for that.  The T/b arrangement isn't it.
 
Does it change the excitement, the thrill, or the space of such an arrangement?  For Me, it doesn't.  There's something to be said for casual play.  It's not the same, intense experience that I have with My submissive, but it ain't all that bad, either.




LadyLegs -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 11:28:44 AM)

One of my friends uses a pro-domme & I had the opportunity to talk to her about it.  I do not know if her experience is typical, but I will relate what she told me.

First she made it clear that in our state it is defined as prostitution, even if there is no sex acts.  She does extensive telephone screening before accepting new clients and establishes the limits during the screening process.  Within those limits, she does what she pleases.  She also said that to build up a clientèle, a new pro-domme will be more of a service top.  Her main complaint was how physically challenging it is and will only schedule 2 sessions a day.

There are also several houses in our area.  A new Domme will spend a lot of time waiting around for a client while the more established be kept busy.  Clients there are referred to only by the kink they have requested. 

From what she said, I got the impression that it takes a while before it is a "do as you please" situation for women who live solely off that income. 




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 11:51:16 AM)

A gal I know used to treat her clients that way, as an "it's my call" kind of scene...the rest of us got lots of her clients!  But she did have her own devoted following. 

Pro domination is fantasy fulfillment.  How much real "submission" is involved really depends on the client.  As to "service", it's all in how you define the term.  Am I "serving" my boy when I bring him a water bottle after a scene?  Or is that just Good Domme Aftercare?




breatheasone -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 12:02:35 PM)

quote:

Am I "serving" my boy when I bring him a water bottle after a scene? Or is that just Good Domme Aftercare?

Both....[:)]




AAkasha -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 12:19:58 PM)


I think two important factors can impact who is in control in a "pay for play" type scenario.  The first is the domina's natural instinct, ability and experience with pulling control from a submissive, even when she's using his own fantasies to weaken him.

The second is her full ability to walk away and turn him down, despite the money on the table. If she needs to dominate ANYONE to pay her rent or feed her, sure, she is going to do whatever it takes, including catering to his fantasies and/or making sure he is more pleased afterward than she is.  If she could take or leave ANY guy that walks through the door, she can screen, interview, and even get rid of a guy who wasn't doing it her way and just not take his money.

I used to do telephone domination (as a side thing) 7 or 8 years ago a few nights a week.  The only reason that worked for me is I would only do it if I was in the mood, and I would turn down guys that were either too focused on their own kinks, too boring, or wimpy for me.  If they went right into groveling I would say "No thanks, call a random sex line, they will work around your fantasies, I won't." I had some men offering to pay me 3x and 4x my advertised rate for "just a chance" and I said no -- if they were boring, expected ME to do all the work, or had a very specific fantasy they wanted to read to me and have me enact, forget it.

By the time I was peaking, I had all regular clients anyway and rarely took new callers.  If I did, I would probably accept 1 out of every 3.  Some nights I would turn on my phone, and do a dozen 5 minute chit chats and none of the guys were engaging or interesting enough to make me WANT to dominate them -- and that's what it is all about for me. If I can't get off on it I don't want to do it.  Since the money was all extra anyway, I could care less if I stayed home and did calls or not.

Now that I am getting back into it, most of my regulars already know that my real career has nothing to do with kink and I don't need their money.  That gives me the ability to control who I talk to and when I do.  The ultimate position to be in is where *I* am the one calling THE SLAVES on my time schedule when I feel like it.  They don't have much say in it at all.

Keep in mind, there are some submissive men that have a structured fantasy and some submissive men that have "some ideas" of what they like, but really, they want to be TAKEN.  That means they don't get to have it their way.  They get to have it my way.  And for them, it's well worth the money, and no, they don't feel in control.

Akasha




MsSaskia -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 12:28:28 PM)

It's a luxury service, but it's still a service.  If I try to make a corporal punishment enthusiast worship my feet for an hour, I lose the client.  I turn down a lot of clients whose interests don't mesh with mine, either well enough or at all, and I turn down clients who believe they get to run the scene beyond stating limits and interests.  Scripts walk.  If I'm not getting any fulfillment out of my job, I'm in the wrong job.  I run the scene, period.  Clients who are not OK with that are welcome to look elsewhere. 

IF, on the other hand, I have a personal partner who's not a client and they're into a fetish or type of play and we negotiate a scene, then I decide to do something completely different and contrary to their stated interests, I'm not only kind of an asshole, but personal partners don't tend to stick around.  For me, play is no fun if it's all one way, even if that way is mine.  Every non-pro person I know is the same way.  That doesn't make you a service top, it makes you a conscientious player. Finding the happy medium between your own needs and the needs of a compatable partner is the goal of every kink relationship I know, regardless of any material exchange.

It takes no skill to disrespect a limit or to completely ignore the needs of a partner, whether it's for pay or not. 




cloudboy -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 1:57:57 PM)


Here is a great description of phone sex.

"it’s emotionally evasive, vaguely ridiculous —and the orgasms aren't that great, either."

"For a true depiction of phone sex, I nominate the Jennifer Jason Leigh scenes in "Short Cuts." She played a phone sex operator who worked out of her house, surrounded by kids, a sullen husband, and an untidy living room. Bored, she'd sit and file her nails or snap her fingers at her kids while she talked of placing some large instrument in the anus of her bound and gagged client. That seems to me what phone sex is really about."

Must say, that when I think of phone sex, I also think of SHORT CUTS, by Robert Altman.




AAkasha -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 2:05:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Here is a great description of phone sex.

"it’s emotionally evasive, vaguely ridiculous —and the orgasms aren't that great, either."

"For a true depiction of phone sex, I nominate the Jennifer Jason Leigh scenes in "Short Cuts." She played a phone sex operator who worked out of her house, surrounded by kids, a sullen husband, and an untidy living room. Bored, she'd sit and file her nails or snap her fingers at her kids while she talked of placing some large instrument in the anus of her bound and gagged client. That seems to me what phone sex is really about."

Must say, that when I think of phone sex, I also think of SHORT CUTS, by Robert Altman.


Like many things, those that cannot envision making something like phonesex erotic have very limited imaginations and are not very stimulating to be with, either.  That's ok - there are many men who do get it and know how to make it work.  It's no way a replacement for real life bdsm - of course, nothing is - but it can be a tasty little bit on the side.

Once again, I'll chalk it up to, "You probably aren't doing it right, or don't know how to do it."

edited to add:
The other night I had a little bit of phone sex with a man who contacted me via my site.  I had him dress in a red thong and red bra underneath normal street clothes and told him to call me from the mall on his cell phone.  I was already pleausring myself to the sound of his trembling breathing as I made him go into the bathroom and insert a large plug in his ass.  We had some bad reception challenges, but as soon as he got back outside, I realized the phone connection was not bad -- it was that he was reduced to barely a whisper because he was so nervous and turned on.  He had a plug harness on to keep the plug on place, and the bra straps were distracting him like mad, but he still made it into the Victoria's Secret.  When a woman approached to help him, I told him to give her the cell phone. She and I had a conversation while she listened mostly, then kind of laughed, looking at him, slowly, up and down, as if she knew exactly what he was wearing.  Then she used her finger to instruct him to follow her, where she pulled a cami off a hanger and handed it to him, then went for the next item, talking to me, looking at him.  He was mortified and so turned on during the whole thing; but what was better was having him go home, put the lingerie on, and send me a digital picture of him in it in order to earn the right to cum.   He said this was better than any real life session he had EVER had because it was so intense.  For me, I get off on things like change in tone of voice, shaking that I can hear over the phone line, whispering, pleading, and the sound of a man gasping when he is in pain. 

Oh, in this case, it also helped that I know the girl at the VS I sent him to. Having connections is a good thing!

Akasha

Akasha




cloudboy -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 4:05:39 PM)


I can't speak of it from experience, but when I saw the subject, I googled "short cuts" and "phone sex operator" to find the link which resonated with me.




AAkasha -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 6:44:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I can't speak of it from experience, but when I saw the subject, I googled "short cuts" and "phone sex operator" to find the link which resonated with me.


Thanks for clarifying that you were putting down a type of interaction you have zero personal experience with. Very credible. There are many people that enjoy it -- including those that are trapped in long distance relationships while lovers are away.


Akasha




DarkDaddyZ -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 6:56:49 PM)

I'm not a pro-domme so I can't directly speak for them. But I know several pro-Dommes including the person who taught me about power exchange relationship and physical elements of play.  I know damn well she as well as the many pro-dommes I have met, spent time with and become friends with aren't acting or Service tops, they are Dommes who happen to also chose to do it professionally.

In addition, many pro-dommes started several BDSM munches, groups, and leather runs.  PEP was started by pro-dommes and for a while was one of the best groups in the country.




simplyserves -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 8:56:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AbsitInvidia
When I was a Pro Domme (waaaay back when about two weeks ago LOL) I always used to joke that it in no way conflicted with my submissive nature because I wasn't actually dominating anyone.  I was putting on the act of dominating but I was really just there playing a part in my client's fantasy.  So really the term "Pro Dom/me" should be changed to "Service Top" - even though that doesn't sound as glamourous.

Just wanted to get some more opinions on that.  Are there any pros out there who demand tribute...and then do whatever you feel like doing?  Make a corporal punishment guy kiss your feet for an hour or have a foot fetishist stay still and be your shibari model?  I don't know if that really would bring any repeat business...but maybe there's a middle ground where the Pro is still in control of everything...just sort of focusing it around the client's fantasies?


There exists as wide a spectrum of professional styles as there are of the fantasies they fulfill.  I'm by no means an expert on professional domination although I've seen a few pro dommes, with varying styles.

It seems there are two major categories that mostly overlap in to the one all encompassing idea of professional domination, and service tops or fantasy providers are one while the other could be more accurately called a professional mistresses.

I would say that "service tops" tend to attract and retain clients who range from wanting a script to be followed precisely to exploring a specific fantasy and either role playing it or just enacting it with someone who has more experience then they do.  The service top wouldn't need to be dominant by nature to do this, as you've said.  I would say they also better suit  non-service oriented submissives or non-submissive masochists, specific fetishists and so fourth. While these types of role playing and scening may constitute the bulk of paying clients they don't really fit with service oriented submission as well.

Professional mistresses, if we differentiate them from service tops, don't necessarily provide specific fantasy fulfillment as much as fill a need for submissives who are service oriented but who haven't been able to find that in a relationship or on-going situation.  When I've seen pro dommes of this sort, and this is were I have the most experience, I was basically paying them to do what they wanted or to have me do.  I don't actually have any fetishes per se, except perhaps humiliation which is hard to scene effectively with out the person knowing me a bit.  So for me, what made it really work was when the pro domme I was seeing would have me clean, or beat on me or whatever else she felt like doing for her benefit or amusement and there was a dynamic at play beyond the scene.  It was always casual though, and it sometimes felt like that was what I was really paying for, a causal easy come experience that was otherwise what I'd like in a relationship.

Professional domination really incorporates both of these by and large but I found that pro dommes are often better or more comfortable with one then the other. I think your very right though, in describing the middle ground which would accurately portray most of my experiences as a paying client.

I think clearly a foot fetishist wouldn't pay a second time for corporal and vice versa for the masochist so for them a service top would certainly be the route to go.  For those of us that aren't looking for a particular fantasy or specific physical experience, paying to serve someone how ever they wish or need is more fulfilling.  To illustrate this I saw one woman in particular many times who had me doing things I never really considered on my own and would have little interest in as fantasies, although doing them for her was very fulfilling and what I really wanted.

Being a pro domme requires a person to be more open to the public, and the public is by and large a "do-me" crowd but in that respect it's more a matter of numbers then it is a matter of what professional domination is or isn't, I would say.




LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 9:46:23 PM)

like I said this topic confuzzles me anymore if you pay for it and you get a rise out of it. Morally it could be seen as rent a ho
the only case where for sure i could see it not that way if A domme was being payed to teach or train someone in the art of ds or bdsm then i can see that for sure 100 percent that it would not be that way




RRafe -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 9:56:16 PM)

One reason that bottom men choose lifestyle pro-is that it's really the difference between a hooker with a whip, and a Top who has a sense of the spirit.[;)]




simplyserves -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 10:10:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64
like I said this topic confuzzles me anymore if you pay for it and you get a rise out of it. Morally it could be seen as rent a ho
the only case where for sure i could see it not that way if A domme was being payed to teach or train someone in the art of ds or bdsm then i can see that for sure 100 percent that it would not be that way


Morals are, at their best, a commonly accepted system of ethical standards that allow people to operate in an honor system and at their worst a vague description of people's fears and intolerance.

Morally, however, seems the worse sense to approach behavior that doesn't effect anyone other then the people participating in it.  Applying it in these cases is without merit or foundation and it always falls in the vague and reactionary realm of fear and intolerance.

Specifically, is there a problem you see with a person "get[ting] a rise", regardless of how they may do it?  Is there a problem or danger with paying for things that stimulate a person sexually?  Does feeling sexual or expressing sexuality, itself, lessen an experience?




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 10:13:48 PM)

Most Pros that I know...and certainly all of the ones who have a good business...are smart business women. They know the value of customer service and satisfaction. This is one of the niches that Pros fulfill in our society...they provide BDSM fantasy fulfillment. I don't know of any who accept money and do a session without discussing the nature of the session with the person. Some clients don't want any structure, they just kinda want a "theme". Some clients want one specific thing. Some clients have a list. Those that get these things fulfilled often come back.

Another thing that I've notices with Pros...a great deal of them ARE submissive in their own relationships. Not all, mind you. One lady that I know has been in business for 15 years. She rarely does sessions of her own now; she has girls that work under her. I say 'girls' specifically since she almost always finds women who are submissive who want to earn extra money. She teaches them to take on the role and be able to use the equipment safely. On occassion, she does have another Dominant work for her, so it's not the rule.

Master Fire




cloudboy -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 10:30:22 PM)


Well, as the article rather cleverly said: "Is phone sex a turn on or a hang up?" I went with the author's POV on it.

If you see short cuts (and I think her husband either commits or attempts suicide too), the phone sex there is portrayed in a very, very unfavorable, unvarnished light. It made quite an impression.




MsSaskia -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 11:11:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Most Pros that I know...and certainly all of the ones who have a good business...are smart business women. They know the value of customer service and satisfaction. This is one of the niches that Pros fulfill in our society...they provide BDSM fantasy fulfillment. I don't know of any who accept money and do a session without discussing the nature of the session with the person. Some clients don't want any structure, they just kinda want a "theme". Some clients want one specific thing. Some clients have a list. Those that get these things fulfilled often come back.

Another thing that I've notices with Pros...a great deal of them ARE submissive in their own relationships. Not all, mind you. One lady that I know has been in business for 15 years. She rarely does sessions of her own now; she has girls that work under her. I say 'girls' specifically since she almost always finds women who are submissive who want to earn extra money. She teaches them to take on the role and be able to use the equipment safely. On occassion, she does have another Dominant work for her, so it's not the rule.

Master Fire



It's definitely not the rule.  I'm dominant regardless of whether it's a personal or professional relationship.  I've expanded my business in the past year and a half and most of the people who've trained under and worked with me have been switches or dominants.  Nobody has been a submissive I've trained to perform as a dominant.




Gwynvyd -> RE: Pro Dommes and Service Tops (11/24/2007 11:21:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Here is a great description of phone sex.

"it’s emotionally evasive, vaguely ridiculous —and the orgasms aren't that great, either."

"For a true depiction of phone sex, I nominate the Jennifer Jason Leigh scenes in "Short Cuts." She played a phone sex operator who worked out of her house, surrounded by kids, a sullen husband, and an untidy living room. Bored, she'd sit and file her nails or snap her fingers at her kids while she talked of placing some large instrument in the anus of her bound and gagged client. That seems to me what phone sex is really about."

Must say, that when I think of phone sex, I also think of SHORT CUTS, by Robert Altman.


Like many things, those that cannot envision making something like phonesex erotic have very limited imaginations and are not very stimulating to be with, either.  That's ok - there are many men who do get it and know how to make it work.  It's no way a replacement for real life bdsm - of course, nothing is - but it can be a tasty little bit on the side.

Once again, I'll chalk it up to, "You probably aren't doing it right, or don't know how to do it."

edited to add:
The other night I had a little bit of phone sex with a man who contacted me via my site.  I had him dress in a red thong and red bra underneath normal street clothes and told him to call me from the mall on his cell phone.  I was already pleausring myself to the sound of his trembling breathing as I made him go into the bathroom and insert a large plug in his ass.  We had some bad reception challenges, but as soon as he got back outside, I realized the phone connection was not bad -- it was that he was reduced to barely a whisper because he was so nervous and turned on.  He had a plug harness on to keep the plug on place, and the bra straps were distracting him like mad, but he still made it into the Victoria's Secret.  When a woman approached to help him, I told him to give her the cell phone. She and I had a conversation while she listened mostly, then kind of laughed, looking at him, slowly, up and down, as if she knew exactly what he was wearing.  Then she used her finger to instruct him to follow her, where she pulled a cami off a hanger and handed it to him, then went for the next item, talking to me, looking at him.  He was mortified and so turned on during the whole thing; but what was better was having him go home, put the lingerie on, and send me a digital picture of him in it in order to earn the right to cum.   He said this was better than any real life session he had EVER had because it was so intense.  For me, I get off on things like change in tone of voice, shaking that I can hear over the phone line, whispering, pleading, and the sound of a man gasping when he is in pain. 

Oh, in this case, it also helped that I know the girl at the VS I sent him to. Having connections is a good thing!

Akasha

Akasha


Evil.. pure evil... I did something almost exactly the same to one of my boys years ago in person durring the holidays at our VS in the mall. It was lovely. Actualy putting the panties and bra up to him.. pondering out loud "Hmm not sure if this will fit you luv" Was priceless. Thank you for bringing back the memories.

Gwyn




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