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Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:32:36 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Here is something maybe some of you could share some valuable insight on...and since it was mentioned today in a post by Simply Micheal and LA ....Basically, how little actual training goes on, atleast on a overt level anyway.

i have trained ,myself to do anal better so that i can accept it better from my Master/Daddy...i have practiced walking in shoes that are very painful that he likes to see me wear....i use self discipline to accomplish certain tasks etc. Part of his training of me is that i learn some lessons on my own, and that i face fears and such.....Alot of the training he leaves up to me to discipline or learn on my own (in whatever forum i need to do it)

So how can someone train themselves to accept pain better?

my personal way that i always dealt with receiving pain (and my experience was limited before my Daddy) had to do with the things being said to me while i receieved the pain. The nastier or more possessive the words from my "top" the more i could endure and use in a positive way.
my Daddy doesn't say much of anything (i hear this is common ????) while we play and i don't know how to ask him to talk to me in the way that i need (much less that it is topping from the bottom)....For me it is not about the sensation of being beaten at all, rather the reasons behind it....one of my favorites is "Because you belong to Me, you are Mine and I can." i am very audibly focused and verbally activated (like a toy LOL)

So if i can't get him to do as i need, then how can i learn to accept the pain and enjoy the beatings when we play?

Thanks for your responses in advance.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:39:15 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it is to approach him when you aren't playing and express your need / desire, and then accept that his decision is his decision.

(in reply to daddyncherry)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:44:57 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it is to approach him when you aren't playing and express your need / desire, and then accept that his decision is his decision.


But that won't help me deal with the pain. i'm looking to learn how to process the pain better...how to train myself for that....Getting him to do as i wish is not going to happen in all probability.

So how to process?


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:46:43 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I explain exactly why I want a certain outcome.

It's up to the girl to figure out how to get herself there-my ideas probably won't let her use her mind enough to get a workable methodology down right.

Which is why I refuse to micromanage-If I serve as the brain for us both- hers won't get any stronger. It's the same with pain. She has to feel what it does to her first, and let it flow through.................If you can do something monor-like a nipple clamp-see how your body and mind react. Learn to be still........that the pain is not destroying you-feel the instinct to evade it.

Realize-it's only an unthinking instinct-then feel it in your gut.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 11/25/2007 5:49:05 PM >

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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:54:27 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I explain exactly why I want a certain outcome.

It's up to the girl to figure out how to get herself there-my ideas probably won't let her use her mind enough to get a workable methodology down right.

Which is why I refuse to micromanage-If I serve as the brain for us both- hers won't get any stronger. It's the same with pain. She has to feel what it does to her first, and let it flow through.................If you can do something monor-like a nipple clamp-see how your body and mind react. Learn to be still........that the pain is not destroying you-feel the instinct to evade it.

Realize-it's only an unthinking instinct-then feel it in your gut.


Hmmm thank you....now to go get the clothespins and see what happens. :) Because i really want to learn this.....it is difficult for me when there is no verbal involved....i can react positively without thinking to having my pussy paddled (i found this out a couple of weeks ago)...so i guess it is a start.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:56:10 PM   
sexyone4you


Posts: 613
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline 		Are you looking for physical ways to process the pain better or psychological ways to process the pain better?

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 5:56:33 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well I think the question you really want to ask is "How can I enjoy the pain?"

Learning to take pain better is one thing- I've got a fairly decent pain tolerance.  Lots of experiences can do that, including learning how to smile even when you stick forks in your hand and things like that.  Breathing exercises can help.  Energy transferrals can help. Learning to take your mind away can help.  Depending on the depth you need to take it, these skills can be attained in a few minutes, or can take decades of discipline to attain. 

But I have zero pain to pleasure tolerance.  It just doesn't happen for me. 

The thing is, even one person who is a masochist can (and usually does) have hugely variable pain to pleasure tolerances based on time of the day/month/mental headspace/object/how it's hit/warm up and a gazillion other factors. 

Have you asked your master if he would be open to more talking in a scene?  A lot of tops just don't do it because they are focused on the physical and it doesn't occur to them to talk much.  Some of them worry it will take you OUT of the headspace you want.  If that's what you are missing, then by all means go beg for it.

People react to different things- some visual, some touch, some sound, some just being left alone.  Most people are a mix of those, but more prevalent in one than another.  Suggesting all bottoms will react to all stimuli exactly the same is just wrong.

How about next time you're doing pillow talk, say "I eally love our scenes, but what really gets me going is when you talk to me.  Hearing something from you hits me deep inside and really gets me to that place we want to go.  Do you think you'd be open to talking more next time we play and see how that works?"

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 6:06:20 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well I think the question you really want to ask is "How can I enjoy the pain?"

Learning to take pain better is one thing- I've got a fairly decent pain tolerance.  Lots of experiences can do that, including learning how to smile even when you stick forks in your hand and things like that.  Breathing exercises can help.  Energy transferrals can help. Learning to take your mind away can help.  Depending on the depth you need to take it, these skills can be attained in a few minutes, or can take decades of discipline to attain. 

But I have zero pain to pleasure tolerance.  It just doesn't happen for me. 

The thing is, even one person who is a masochist can (and usually does) have hugely variable pain to pleasure tolerances based on time of the day/month/mental headspace/object/how it's hit/warm up and a gazillion other factors. 

Have you asked your master if he would be open to more talking in a scene?  A lot of tops just don't do it because they are focused on the physical and it doesn't occur to them to talk much.  Some of them worry it will take you OUT of the headspace you want.  If that's what you are missing, then by all means go beg for it.

People react to different things- some visual, some touch, some sound, some just being left alone.  Most people are a mix of those, but more prevalent in one than another.  Suggesting all bottoms will react to all stimuli exactly the same is just wrong.

How about next time you're doing pillow talk, say "I eally love our scenes, but what really gets me going is when you talk to me.  Hearing something from you hits me deep inside and really gets me to that place we want to go.  Do you think you'd be open to talking more next time we play and see how that works?"


i can accept the pain...alot of it....but it is what you are saying....the pain to pleasure combination and learning to process it in a sexual way.

Trying to take it in and through me and have it go out through my clit basically (how my Daddy described it)

He does know that i have a thing for verbal, but im not sure how much i've explained and i have such a hard time asking for stuff...any stuff....He just has this voice...OMG.....maybe i can ask....maybe that will help. It has helped in the past with processing but never the amount of pain he dishes out.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 6:38:07 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Midear Cherry-
 
I'd bet, in the heat of the moment, if you managed to gasp out 'tell me why'- he would. I am a pretty stone sadist in the moment, but that sort of request rarely gives me pause.
 
As for actually dealing with the pain , on your own, as LA sugessted, Breathe through it- Nipples are, as RRafe suggests, a good practice- they are rediculously durable, and wonderfully sensitive. instead of clamps, I'd sugesst something little and whippy- like a stirrer...
 
Take a deep breath, drawing it in for a count of six. Hold it for six, then WHACK!
 
blow it out for six, while letting the pain go through you, let it travel- accept it into yourself, let it pass through, instead of fighting  it, and feel it blow away with your breath.
 
hold the exhale, too, for six seconds, before another inhale for six (do each nipple twice, then switch).
 
You'll do well. you always do.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 6:57:16 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Midear Cherry-
 
I'd bet, in the heat of the moment, if you managed to gasp out 'tell me why'- he would. I am a pretty stone sadist in the moment, but that sort of request rarely gives me pause.
 
As for actually dealing with the pain , on your own, as LA sugessted, Breathe through it- Nipples are, as RRafe suggests, a good practice- they are rediculously durable, and wonderfully sensitive. instead of clamps, I'd sugesst something little and whippy- like a stirrer...
 
Take a deep breath, drawing it in for a count of six. Hold it for six, then WHACK!
 
blow it out for six, while letting the pain go through you, let it travel- accept it into yourself, let it pass through, instead of fighting  it, and feel it blow away with your breath.
 
hold the exhale, too, for six seconds, before another inhale for six (do each nipple twice, then switch).
 
You'll do well. you always do.
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence


Lawrence,

Of course from you advice means alot since we are old friends so first let me thank you very much. Seems if i put together what you said and then what RRafe and LA said, as well as something from a sweet Mistress in Denver who posted the other day...maybe i'll be onto something.

As for me getting something like that out in the heat of things...LOL...i scream... i cry and manage to get out a pleading "Daddy????..." but so far that's about it.

Thanks for all the advice.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 7:03:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

my Daddy doesn't say much of anything (i hear this is common ????) while we play and i don't know how to ask him to talk to me in the way that i need (much less that it is topping from the bottom)....


Communicating needs and desires to your Daddy isn't topping from the bottom, pouting and whining that he doesn't do what you want is topping from the bottom.  In fact, I consider keeping information like that from me AS topping from the bottom because "you" are deciding what to tell me and what not to tell me.

Lots of things going on here, first off, how does he want you to feel the pain?  Some fucked up perverted sadistic assholes (and damn talented too) like KnightofMists purposely keeps his women from going into subspace.  Does your daddy want you to take the pain as pleasure or does he only want it to hurt, there are reasons for both.  Myself I like a bit of both depending on my mood.

There are ways of breathing that allow you to process more pain, sort of meditations.  Breathing deeply and mentally envisioning the pain leaving as you exhale is just one of them.  If he wants to you to be able to take more, then working together to me would be the way to go.  Pick up a copy of "The Bottoming Book" and The Topping Book" and you will find a lot in there about taking more pain.

What I was refering to as training was taking an inexperced woman who while having the desire to submit lacks the ability to do so.  Too many reasons for that inability to exist to go into but the way I work with it is roughly the same.  Show her over time that she can come to me with issues and I won't get angry, that I will love her all the more for doing it and that secrets hurt the relationship and being truthful strengthens it.  It is far harder than it sounds for both sides, hearing your woman tell you something that fires up your insecurities, real or imagined, or disapoints you is hard enough, staying positive and supportive comes much harder.  However, over time actions breed trust, you are training her first and foremost to be deeply open and honest, something everyone claims they are but few truly accomplish.

Without that sort of foundation, any sort of change/training is almost impossible, at least for the sort of end result I want.  I could train a man to kneel at my feet by beating him every time he doesn't but that isn't submission as we use the term.  I want her to crave kneeling at my feet because for her that represents a place of safety and security and most importanly a sense of being nurtured and cared for.

Once that foundation is built almost anything is possible, but nothing is possible instantly. Changing habbits formed over a lifetime takes time and patience.  Success isn't perfection, success is progress, better today than yesterday, better the second time than the first.  Even a step backward (like when children regress to bedwetting to see if they will still be loved) must be handled carefully, the disapointment must show it is wrong but the aknowledgement of how hard the work is must balance it out.

I always make sure to let them know how proud I am of how much they are taking and hot it makes me to see them take it well.  I mean, what else are you going to do?  Beat them for not taking a beating? 

(in reply to daddyncherry)
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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 7:15:50 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

my Daddy doesn't say much of anything (i hear this is common ????) while we play and i don't know how to ask him to talk to me in the way that i need (much less that it is topping from the bottom)....


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Communicating needs and desires to your Daddy isn't topping from the bottom, pouting and whining that he doesn't do what you want is topping from the bottom.  In fact, I consider keeping information like that from me AS topping from the bottom because "you" are deciding what to tell me and what not to tell me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
This is something i have read on here over time and am not sure how he looks at it...it is a very good point so maybe i will ask.
Lots of things going on here, first off, how does he want you to feel the pain?  Some fucked up perverted sadistic assholes (and damn talented too) like KnightofMists purposely keeps his women from going into subspace.  Does your daddy want you to take the pain as pleasure or does he only want it to hurt, there are reasons for both.  Myself I like a bit of both depending on my mood.


Even though he is sadistic (something i have newly realized) he also wants me to use the pain and process it sexually...to enjoy it. i also think there is part of him that is glad to hurt me though. So like you a combo plate :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
There are ways of breathing that allow you to process more pain, sort of meditations.  Breathing deeply and mentally envisioning the pain leaving as you exhale is just one of them.  If he wants to you to be able to take more, then working together to me would be the way to go.  Pick up a copy of "The Bottoming Book" and The Topping Book" and you will find a lot in there about taking more pain.


He has mentioned this to me...the breathing thing, but now that i have some ways of practicing this that make sense to me, that i understand, ...before that it seemd way too broad stroked and i didn't really get it.

Thanks to you :)



_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 8:13:21 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5173
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Contrary to what some submissives believe, Dominants are not mind readers.  Wishing and hoping that he'll eventually figure out what you need him to do is more a fantasy than a reality. 

If i asked you if you trust your Dominant i'll bet i'd get a resounding "YES."  Yet you do not trust him enough to tell him what you need.  Think about that awhile....seems rather silly, doesn't it?  You are afraid to trust the one who you trust the most. 

Explaining to him what you feel you need is not topping from the bottom.  It is sharing your thoughts with your trusted partner.  What he does with that information is then up to him. 

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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 8:31:27 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

Contrary to what some submissives believe, Dominants are not mind readers.  Wishing and hoping that he'll eventually figure out what you need him to do is more a fantasy than a reality. 

If i asked you if you trust your Dominant i'll bet i'd get a resounding "YES."  Yet you do not trust him enough to tell him what you need.  Think about that awhile....seems rather silly, doesn't it?  You are afraid to trust the one who you trust the most. 

Explaining to him what you feel you need is not topping from the bottom.  It is sharing your thoughts with your trusted partner.  What he does with that information is then up to him. 


Although i agree with your last statement....since it was brought to my attention....there is alot of assuming going on here.

Do i trust him? Yes...i trust him not to hurt me physically....i trust him to be who he is...and with that i trust that alot of what i say is "politely ignored"...meaning that i think i know something and he knows better due to his experience and so what i think i now is tossed aside. He may have some reason or know something that i don't know...and i also trust that he is human and can be wrong (but then i am stuck between that rock and my own hard place)

So it isn't as easy as me going and asking him to talk to me...he KNOWS that verbal is important to me...does he know or care if it is what i need (or think i need) during a scene for it to me pleasurable to me in a better way? Not sure....If i told him that would he agree? Again, i am not sure.

This is why, when knowing that it may be something i cannot change to get my perceived needs met, i sought another way around the barn....Not getting what i want....but making it more pleasurable for me in a way that is more than obeying, accepting and getting some attention.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to peppermint)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 8:33:16 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Here is something maybe some of you could share some valuable insight on...and since it was mentioned today in a post by Simply Micheal and LA ....Basically, how little actual training goes on, atleast on a overt level anyway.

i have trained ,myself to do anal better so that i can accept it better from my Master/Daddy...i have practiced walking in shoes that are very painful that he likes to see me wear....i use self discipline to accomplish certain tasks etc. Part of his training of me is that i learn some lessons on my own, and that i face fears and such.....Alot of the training he leaves up to me to discipline or learn on my own (in whatever forum i need to do it)

So how can someone train themselves to accept pain better?

my personal way that i always dealt with receiving pain (and my experience was limited before my Daddy) had to do with the things being said to me while i receieved the pain. The nastier or more possessive the words from my "top" the more i could endure and use in a positive way.
my Daddy doesn't say much of anything (i hear this is common ????) while we play and i don't know how to ask him to talk to me in the way that i need (much less that it is topping from the bottom)....For me it is not about the sensation of being beaten at all, rather the reasons behind it....one of my favorites is "Because you belong to Me, you are Mine and I can." i am very audibly focused and verbally activated (like a toy LOL)

So if i can't get him to do as i need, then how can i learn to accept the pain and enjoy the beatings when we play?

Thanks for your responses in advance.



I am a masochist but by no means a huge pain slut.  While I find some types of pain erotic in and of themselves, much of that is because of who I have been with and their desires. Most Doms I have been with are sadists and don't actually want one to feel good.  When they push me past that point where the pain is erotic, one thing that helps alot is remembering to breathe.  Slow deep breaths help calm you and process your body's reaction.  I sometimes get to a point where I start to feel panic and remind myself I'm with someone I trust who won't truly hurt me.  If I'm able to see his face and his reaction when he's doing it that also can make a big difference.  Even when it hurts in a bad way it turns me on that it turns him on.  When I start to get overwhelmed, I just let go.  I don't know how to describe how to do it, but I mentally just let go of my fear and trust in him and at that point I start to get into it regardless of the pain.


< Message edited by laurell3 -- 11/25/2007 8:34:48 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 8:38:22 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you laurell3...and i have tried breathing during things....and if there is any kind of a lull then i try to regroup mentally and phsyically. The breathing becomes difficult when it is hit after hit with a single tail....i try to surrender to it...in my mind...in my body language...to just let go an accept it.....this works for a moment or so.

Seems the best thing i have done is just letting go and bawling from my soul...realizing that i had no control over any of it.

Maybe if i practice some of the stuff mentioned when not in a scene then i will be more prepared when we do one.

That is the hope anyway




_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 11:23:23 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it is to approach him when you aren't playing and express your need / desire, and then accept that his decision is his decision.


But that won't help me deal with the pain. i'm looking to learn how to process the pain better...how to train myself for that....Getting him to do as i wish is not going to happen in all probability.

So how to process?



Give up. His decision is his decision, right? It always works so much better for me when I stop fighting and just accept there is no other choice.

(in reply to daddyncherry)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/25/2007 11:55:38 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it is to approach him when you aren't playing and express your need / desire, and then accept that his decision is his decision.


But that won't help me deal with the pain. i'm looking to learn how to process the pain better...how to train myself for that....Getting him to do as i wish is not going to happen in all probability.

So how to process?



Give up. His decision is his decision, right? It always works so much better for me when I stop fighting and just accept there is no other choice.



What are you missing here? There is no "his decision" or not....i have gotten alot of really good answers about HOW TO PROCESS the pain...THAT was the question....Since I HAVE ACCEPTED that he MAY NOT EVER speak during...then i was wanting to know how to process it

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/26/2007 2:36:06 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		LOL daddyncherry she's telling you to mentally give in, the same thing I told you.  She's not criticising you.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to daddyncherry)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Self training? Training In General - 11/26/2007 5:01:46 AM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Thank you laurell3...and i have tried breathing during things....and if there is any kind of a lull then i try to regroup mentally and phsyically. The breathing becomes difficult when it is hit after hit with a single tail....i try to surrender to it...in my mind...in my body language...to just let go an accept it.....this works for a moment or so.

Seems the best thing i have done is just letting go and bawling from my soul...realizing that i had no control over any of it.

Maybe if i practice some of the stuff mentioned when not in a scene then i will be more prepared when we do one.

That is the hope anyway



This is working backwards against your goal, IMHO. For me the deep steady breathing helps tremendously - but even once I get a grip on the ebb and flow of what's going on or if their is a lull to NOT regroup and mentally process what is going on is the key to keeping myself there, in sync with the pain. If I attempt to analyze it it's counter-productive and then I flounder, going under the pain rather than riding with it. Not sure if this makes any sense but next time try it. Just concentrate on your breathing, let the pain/pleasure flow thru you like water or the wind. Don't try to attach thoughts to it.

Just think if you were surfing & finally on top of a monster wave would you be analyzing the marvelous job your legs and feet were doing to keep you balanced? the natural way your arms extend and curl? the instinctive sway of your body? no - because if you did you'd lose control and fall.

<---not a surfer :D but it seemed to fit


_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to daddyncherry)
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