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RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 6:54:35 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Interesting rant. Just because a sub doesn't kowtow to you, doesn't mean they aren't submissive. It just means they aren't submissive to you. In fact, for some of us, we aren't permitted to show any more than ordinary common courtesy to other doms. And we aren't allowed to give even that to the ones who pursue us when we state we aren't interested.

What you perceive as rudeness, may be standing orders in someone else's relationship.




But those doms that order this would not be weal nor twue

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:07:07 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Courtesy is a must, but I can be courteous even to someone I loathe. Respect and trust are earned. One thing I learned from working in Customer Service for so long... kill them with kindness. I can be "nice" to anyone.

I have noticed, though, that you you find it necessary to demand respect, it is usually because you are not able to earn it.

DV



Exactly....There lies a huge canyon between courtesy and respect. I open the door for the person behind me out of courtesy. I thank the waitress for bringing me coffee out of courtesy.  I don't know if these folks are pedophiles or  murders or eat babies.  If someone has garnished my respect it is because they have earned it.

The fuckheads who come out here and demand "respect," are confusing respect for instant gratification.

This is after all the net.  I'm really tired about posters who complain about they mail they receive.  Obviously there is something that you haven't yet begin to understand about the medium on which you have chose to advertise yourself.  It would be sooooo refreshing if the peeps out here would just chill on this topic.  It is all part of this thang. If it bugs you so then this isn't the place for you. 

Actually it is like a bar. The reality is that many women who receive mail on CM may not ever receive the attention of a man in a bar unless it was closing time and it works both ways.  What is the difference?  We all get approached by people "out there" (Real world) that are not suitable to become partners.  I've watched some of my "friends with twats" get approached by guys in bars and clubs that they would never ever consider going out with. No, they don't come up and say tie up my balls...But they sometimes do suggest that they should leave together, immediately get to close, some have "laid hands" on them or continue the pursuit when it has been made clear that their company is no longer wanted.  My friends are courteous to a point and sometimes when courtesy no longer works they are forced to put them on "block."....They have to get the asssistance of  bouncers, bartenders, security and friends to make sure the "block" has been soundly put into place.

Enough about your shitty mail.  Get over it.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 11/28/2007 7:12:40 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:19:54 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		Edit: as should have been sent as cmail.

< Message edited by Vanatru -- 11/28/2007 7:51:12 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:32:36 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think that the trouble you have with the way some of us respond to you is that you insult wide swaths of people by putting them into neat little boxes based upon what you deem to be real, fake, untrue, or any other negative category. I read this in your posts often... either they are insulting people on how submissive they "twuly" are, or they are just downright snarky... but that is just what I have read from you...

Clue, it does not win friends nor influence people to hit and run with snarky posts.. we all read each other here, and often when you snark on one person, many others note it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Vanatru)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:48:06 AM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		Snark? LOL Since when does expressing views become snarking? There are lots of posts from people that others  don't agree with but you dont sit there and nit pick at specific people..geez

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:54:32 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Snark? LOL Since when does expressing views become snarking? There are lots of posts from people that others  don't agree with but you dont sit there and nit pick at specific people..geez


You are right, I shouldn't have shown a light on it, it really does not matter. I am sure there are others that have noted what I have... all they have to do is read his opinions about female dominants, and the hot air that submissives around here spew, or perhaps they can find posts where he just talks about "drama" in a vague way...

I just think it is rather ironic that this is all on a thread about respect, because usually you have to give it to get it back

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to wisteriaV)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 7:59:13 AM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline 		Respect, imho, is not the same as courtesy or trust. However, i find no reason not to respect someone without them necessarily earning it. i seek to treat others with respect and courtesy but i trust only those who have consistently demonstrated that they are respectful of me and themselves.

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to Chainmaile)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 8:09:12 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
I have noticed, though, that you you find it necessary to demand respect, it is usually because you are not able to earn it

Exactly right, DV.  Well said.  Master has never once "demanded" respect or even really spoken about it much at all.  It was obvious to Him from the early stages of our relationship that He wouldn't need to do such.  If I hadn't felt respect, I wouldn't have kept speaking with Him and getting to know Him.  I respect Him more than words can say for the things He says and does (and doesn't say or do) and He doesn't have to demand it. As you said, that would just negate it.  Someone "demanding" respect has just done something to assure it's never going to happen.  Great point...........luci 

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 8:25:31 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I clicked on this topic and thought it was going to be a roll my eyes type one but have instead found it quite interesting.

To me terms like respect and courtesy are so subjective that they are often bent into agenda type things more then some foundation of behavior. I have always been more about treating people with class which in my own mind is treating other people like I would want to be treated based on my actions and therefore have little problem mirroring someone when they fail to reach a basic standard.

So strangers in real life or in cyber land I always treat them as they are sincere in their words. Those who come off as thinking they are better then me, accuse me of being fake until proven real and think dominant means they have certain benefits bestowed upon them are not treating me with class and will not get back what they are asking.

I find courtesy in cyber to be totally fraudulent for those who bring it up. It is totally rude to demand or try to guilt someone to do what you perceive is a “common courtesy” and those who do that just begging for the opposite of what they are asking on my end.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Chainmaile)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 8:33:04 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		How odd.  I had the opposite reaction. 
I get it that many of us, dom, sub, male, female, are not into random people soliciting wank fodder.  That kind of nonsense is going to happen across the board.  Some will play into it, and some will be annoyed (put me in that catagory).
I get that many female dominants get that "Do Me" crap.  As a sub female I got my share of guys thinking I will swoon to "slut".
But for me people are people, regardless of gender, or orientation.  When I meet them there is more coutesy given than I would to any other stranger.  No one is special to me until they become special to me.
It makes me really glad I am bi-phobic and not in need of a female dominant if they expect me to cater to them on first contact.  As far as those wanking types that only want you to serve their needs, that is what the X is for.  Or in real life, turning to walk away.
Rude behavior should not be rewarded.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 This is why most "submissive males" that approach me get nowhere.
How dare you approach me as a non-Professional Mistress and total stranger,
and out of the blue tell me what you like, what you have done and what you want
as far as BDSM activities?
Last I checked you can get about $1.99 per minute to listen to crap like this.
PLEASE contact one of the phone or cam ladies on here, and get the hell out of my face.
So many get perplexed when I show ZERO interests in them.
Whats wrong Mistress, why don't you want to listen to me spend hours talking about what I want and what I need?
Duh
Do you approach other women online, at clubs and bars, parties, functions in this manner?

I am sure many submissive males go up to total strangers at parties, bars, and begin
telling them how they want their cock and balls tied up!  LOL
Gimme a break.
I am a woman and a LADY and if you can not approach me as such, we don't have much to
discuss, in common and absolutely no future.


Before I even read the rest, or give My personal opinion on the topic, I just want to say I really appreciate you, MzMia.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 8:34:47 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I understand this point of view. Do you mean that, if you deal with people person-to-person that they should be treated differently than if you talk to them online?

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

...
I find courtesy in cyber to be totally fraudulent for those who bring it up. It is totally rude to demand or try to guilt someone to do what you perceive is a “common courtesy” and those who do that just begging for the opposite of what they are asking on my end.


(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 8:51:08 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vanatru

I'm not sure I understand this point of view. Do you mean that, if you deal with people person-to-person that they should be treated differently than if you talk to them online?

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

...
I find courtesy in cyber to be totally fraudulent for those who bring it up. It is totally rude to demand or try to guilt someone to do what you perceive is a “common courtesy” and those who do that just begging for the opposite of what they are asking on my end.




No I think people online bring up courtesy as an angle. In real life people do not come up to you and go I expect this because it is common courtesy. In cyber courtesy is more often then not used for a person to get something they specifically want from a stranger.

For example in real life someone walks up to you being rude and disrespectful they are usually not stunned if the person does something different then smile back and say thank you. In cyber people can be rude, very negative and put zero effort in a message and then demand common courtesy which they are not defining as being rude, negative or no effort back. That is what is fraudulent about it.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Vanatru)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 9:09:05 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I like your posts on this, toservez, they are really well thought out.

In general, I try to be respectful to others whenever possible, whether I like them or not.  I don't always achieve this, as I am a fallible human.  I also do not fit everyone's description of what respectful is.  But I must always be respectful to myself, and in doing so I am respectful to my Master as well.  Being respectful to myself means speaking up when disrespected by others.  What people do with that, however, is up to them.

What I find interesting and ironic is the recent frequency in which I have witnessed those whom I have seen as disrespectful to others speaking most vehemently about wanting respect from others (for clarity's sake, this is not aimed at the OP).

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 9:16:48 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		It seems to Me that demanding respect is both counter productive and counter intuitive. It is the same as demanding someone likes you. Who actualy thinks that respect can be demanded from anyone?

Jeff

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 9:29:47 AM   
xAdamx


Posts: 92
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Re.....respect should be earned not demanded........I'm not being picky but you quote " I'll treat anyone with respect, until they give me reason not to. But to earn my respect you have to prove to me you are worthy of it " end quote. Ummmm that sound like a demand to me

< Message edited by xAdamx -- 11/28/2007 9:30:54 AM >

(in reply to Chainmaile)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 10:02:32 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		It's sad that anyone even feels the need for the topic of the OP. It should be pretty damn obvious, IMO.

After viewing the replies, I'd like to comment regarding courtesy, respect, and trust.

Courtesy is nothing more than polite behavior toward someone. Everyone should be given courtesy until they show that they don't deserve it.

Respect is somewhat more complex. The word "respect", as in "showing respect" and "being respectful", is often used to describe outward display in the same sense as the word "courtesy", but sometimes respect implies more deference than mere politeness. Real respect, however, is something internal. I believe that respect is a privilege more than an unalienable right. Everyone deserves a little at first, but to keep it, it has to be earned.

Trust is another issue entirely. It has an infinite number of levels, and it has to be earned, continually.

(in reply to Chainmaile)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 10:03:43 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		thanks for explaining that further toservez, that helped a lot.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 11:42:53 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

It's sad that anyone even feels the need for the topic of the OP. It should be pretty damn obvious, IMO.

After viewing the replies, I'd like to comment regarding courtesy, respect, and trust.

Courtesy is nothing more than polite behavior toward someone. Everyone should be given courtesy until they show that they don't deserve it.

Respect is somewhat more complex. The word "respect", as in "showing respect" and "being respectful", is often used to describe outward display in the same sense as the word "courtesy", but sometimes respect implies more deference than mere politeness. Real respect, however, is something internal. I believe that respect is a privilege more than an unalienable right. Everyone deserves a little at first, but to keep it, it has to be earned.

Trust is another issue entirely. It has an infinite number of levels, and it has to be earned, continually.

I must admit...I like how you explained it...

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 11:47:24 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

How odd.  I had the opposite reaction. 
I get it that many of us, dom, sub, male, female, are not into random people soliciting wank fodder.  That kind of nonsense is going to happen across the board.  Some will play into it, and some will be annoyed (put me in that catagory).
I get that many female dominants get that "Do Me" crap.  As a sub female I got my share of guys thinking I will swoon to "slut".
But for me people are people, regardless of gender, or orientation.  When I meet them there is more coutesy given than I would to any other stranger.  No one is special to me until they become special to me.
It makes me really glad I am bi-phobic and not in need of a female dominant if they expect me to cater to them on first contact.  As far as those wanking types that only want you to serve their needs, that is what the X is for.  Or in real life, turning to walk away.
Rude behavior should not be rewarded.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 This is why most "submissive males" that approach me get nowhere.
How dare you approach me as a non-Professional Mistress and total stranger,
and out of the blue tell me what you like, what you have done and what you want
as far as BDSM activities?
Last I checked you can get about $1.99 per minute to listen to crap like this.
PLEASE contact one of the phone or cam ladies on here, and get the hell out of my face.
So many get perplexed when I show ZERO interests in them.
Whats wrong Mistress, why don't you want to listen to me spend hours talking about what I want and what I need?
Duh
Do you approach other women online, at clubs and bars, parties, functions in this manner?

I am sure many submissive males go up to total strangers at parties, bars, and begin
telling them how they want their cock and balls tied up!  LOL
Gimme a break.
I am a woman and a LADY and if you can not approach me as such, we don't have much to
discuss, in common and absolutely no future.


Before I even read the rest, or give My personal opinion on the topic, I just want to say I really appreciate you, MzMia.



I think, without realizing it, W/we mean the same thing.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Respect - 11/28/2007 12:12:09 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: wisteriaV

Snark? LOL Since when does expressing views become snarking? There are lots of posts from people that others  don't agree with but you dont sit there and nit pick at specific people..geez


You are right, I shouldn't have shown a light on it, it really does not matter. I am sure there are others that have noted what I have... all they have to do is read his opinions about female dominants, and the hot air that submissives around here spew, or perhaps they can find posts where he just talks about "drama" in a vague way...

I just think it is rather ironic that this is all on a thread about respect, because usually you have to give it to get it back


Yep, being referred to as "hot air" pretty much killed my interest in anything further that he had to say.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 40
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