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Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 3:00:49 AM

PAVANE

Posts: 118
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

i have had a similiar sepearate conversation recently with 2 potential slaves/subs. They have both said they dont want to use a safe word.
first one said she didnt want to use one as she felt a sub could control the session by using a safe word. topping from the bottom.
second said that i should be able to tell from her body language and voice when she wanted me to stop.

to both i explainded why i have a safe word 1 if see she is going to faint or be sick she can use it. or to use the toilet 2 for my peace of mind so i dont get too heavy and cause serious damage physical emoutoinal or mental to a slave. of course limits are discussed before we start, but its not possible to cover all circumstances.

should also say that to the ist one i said that if ever i encounter topping from the bottom i stop the session and discuss it. if we are both ok then we carry on. if not then end of session.
as for telling by the body language and voice well some objections to that are
1 a lot of subs like to pretend they are being forced and put on an act (of course!)
2 harder to explain this one, um a lot of subs have things they dont want to do but really they do want it done. so although they are saying no they mean yes.

i would welcome any comments on all the above.

Post #: 1

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 4:38:15 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline

i dont have a safeword becouse i dont want that way to control the session. However my Dom do listen to me and if i say Master, i have to go to the bathroom, he will usualy let me go. The same way i can tell him if i am having serious problems, we need no codes for that.

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 2

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 5:46:15 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I think alot of people are going to pass this thread by because recently there have been quite a few threads on safewords. That is a shame because while you stated 'safewords' to me from reading your post , this is about something different.

" 2 for my peace of mind so i dont get too heavy and cause serious damage physical emoutoinal or mental to a slave."

This to me was the key to your post. How much is it the Dominant's responsibility?

It just seemed like they wanted to take no responsibility in making a scene with you successful.

You are being honest by saying you want some extra safeguards in the beginning, I think that is very responsible. I admire that. The girls in question heard the hotly contested term 'safeword' and nothing else. Implying since you are the dominant , you should automagically know how far is too far and be able to tell.

If you are in such a serious or long term relationship with a girl that you know her body language and voice that is a different matter.

You are the dominant , you set the rules, if they don't want to play by your rules then they don't get the priviledge of playing with you.

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 3

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 6:50:52 AM

perfection20005

Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline

I agree that you are the Dom and you set the rules. If you want a safe word, then the sub/slave should know what it is and use it if necessary. Thats the only way you are going to feel comfortable, so thats the way it should be.
Master does know my body language now, but until you get to know someone, you can't be expected to know that. And using a safe word isn't topping from the bottom. Thats a totally different thing.

_____________________________

perfection

"I took one look at Him, and I knew He was my Master."

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 4

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 7:05:20 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Trivial situation to me. By God I am the Dom and you own these safewords whether you want to or not becuse they are for my safety not yours. When I am comfortable I will command you to give them back to me.

Thats me.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to perfection20005)

Post #: 5

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 7:14:24 AM

ChereeAmoor

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

No safeword? No playing.

Keep it just that simple, and don't be swayed from that course. We have had a safeword for 19 years, and I have used it maybe 1/2 a dozen times. But I know it is there, and so does he. I would run screaming from anyone that expected me to red their mind, and I hope you do, too!!

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 6

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 8:17:37 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

Master says that safewords are in place to protect his property. If I allow damage to happen because I didn't use the protection, then I have been remiss in caring for his property.

Keep in mind that everyone plays differently. I have a tendency to yell "No", "Stop", "Please" along with a number of other phrases that could cause a scene to stop. I know that I can yell all those things and the scene won't stop unless I use a safeword or it has come to it's conclusion.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 8/13/2005 11:00:16 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to ChereeAmoor)

Post #: 7

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 8:46:58 AM

tinkJH

Posts: 180
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline

I have a safeword, tho I have yet to use it. However it doesn't allow for me to control. It allows Master to assess the situation, and determin what course to take next after addressing the concerns I am having.

The safe word, to us, is a small form of communication, to use when I can't make out a full sentance. Generally.. if something is wrong, I say JUST what the problem is. My leg hurts in that position, there is a cramp in my arm, Can I pee before we begin? If for some reason I am unable to or off in headspace where I can't form more then one word or two - that is when the safe word comes in. So far, its never happen. But I is there just incase.

I would Never just expect Master to be able to read my mind... He can't read mine anymore then I can his.

_____________________________

"I know you didn't bring me out here to drown,
so why am I ten feet under and upside down..? " (Lifehouse ~ Storm)

~the everyday rantings of a still learning mommy slave~
http://brazendreams.blogspot.com/

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 8

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 8:53:32 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I don't have a safeword with the Owner because we find that straight up communication works better.

People should feel free to use a safeword for whatever reasons they want to use them for, as long as their partner is in agreement AND will use it for those same reasons.

The problem is that people think safewords do things that they don't do or misuse them or don't use them at all even when they agreed to do so.

I find just straight up communication is infinitely better than a code word that has become some overblown symbol in bdsm.

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 9

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 9:50:06 AM

atenderheart

Posts: 31
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline

everyone i play with be it my Owner or who ever has a safe word .. They have one and i have one.. do i usealy use my safe word .. no but its there to make us all safe... have They used Theirs yes.... ( i tend to go a little wild) .. so i see a safe word working both ways...

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 10

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 11:06:07 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I don't have a safeword with the Owner because we find that straight up communication works better.

That's how we opperate. Honestly, this is how we oppoerate even with play partners. We are -very- clear with them that rather than rely on code words, i will simply -tell- whomever I'm with that I am in pain/need to pee/having an allergic reaction.

It makes -me- feel safer, because I know that I can just TELL the person what I'm feeling, and that they will know I am telling them honestly, rather than allowing one word to communicate complex feelings.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 11

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 11:38:08 AM

Fawne

Posts: 462
Status: offline

I think it is only fair to warn Master if I am to barf on him or faint. He can make the decision if he knows all the facts. So not TFTB.

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 12

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 11:40:21 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline

quote:

It makes -me- feel safer, because I know that I can just TELL the person what I'm feeling, and that they will know I am telling them honestly, rather than allowing one word to communicate complex feelings.

Exactly how i feel to perverseangelic.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 13

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 12:31:56 PM

lebmelech

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

i need a safeword to be comfortable enough to give my all to a situation. just that key in the back pocket so that if ever needed (which it hasnt been) i can have it there, but ive never found a need to use it. im in a D/s situation to push my boundaries, and i know what i can take and what's too much. but i guess that comes from being a cyclist and really pushing myself.

(in reply to nella)

Post #: 14

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 12:55:21 PM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I don't have a safeword with the Owner because we find that straight up communication works better.

That's how we opperate. Honestly, this is how we oppoerate even with play partners. We are -very- clear with them that rather than rely on code words, i will simply -tell- whomever I'm with that I am in pain/need to pee/having an allergic reaction.

It makes -me- feel safer, because I know that I can just TELL the person what I'm feeling, and that they will know I am telling them honestly, rather than allowing one word to communicate complex feelings.

This is great but I wish you and emerald would address what the OP said. The he can not always tell by the language being used. You ever see in the movie Jerry Maguire where Jerry and his gf are having sex and she is shouting, stop... don't... over and over then they zoom in and you realize she is really saying don't stop.

What the op was saying is what happens when communication is not so clear. He is trying his best to act responsibly and cause no harm. I can see the quandry he is in, until he really knows a girl alot better. I once had a dom smack my butt , I loudly exclaimed 'Ouch!'. He immediately stopped and started hugging me , saying poor baby. I then started laughing.

This story is just to show that communication is alot harder than people think.

I think the op posed a really tough question. What if communication is not so clear, then what do you do?

PA and ES2 hope this makes sense and I am hoping you will adress that question.

respectfully thanks :)

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 15

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 1:33:34 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Would I use a safe word with someone I was just starting out scening with?
Yes.

Does it take control away from the dominant?
No.

Do I use a safeword with someone who knows me extremely well?
No.

Whilst I can understand the subs thoughts, my thought would be - how can the potential say you would be able to 'read her' unless you had already scened with her a few times?

And who is the submissive to say that they will not use a safeword, when it is the dominats wish? That makes no sense.

Be true to yourself and if you have the desire for subs/slaves to use the safeword, then the the potential should either submit to your desire or move on.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to PAVANE)

Post #: 16

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 1:35:43 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

That's about as reasonable a point of view as you'll ever find.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Would I use a safe word with someone I was just starting out scening with?
Yes.

Does it take control away from the dominant?
No.

Do I use a safeword with someone who knows me extremely well?
No.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 17

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 2:28:38 PM

mossy

Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline

i apologise ahead of time for not reading the other replies first as it would only throw my point off Sir. First i would like to to say i do not pretend, and i never do when i have been involved in bdsm, D/s. Second i feel the submissives both to me anyway from what You explained,,,both of them "rejected Your scening rules" to me that is rather upsetting. You were telling them this is what I "require".....they said in effect..."no". That doesn't make them bad, or not worth playing with, but i think perhaps they may not realize what they were doing in essence. But if they did realize what they were saying? what happens when it comes to Your other orders? Will it be a constant push and pull? Just a thought Sir, for i remember when i was that way....and i really didn't get it Sir.

For me i saw Your rule as safety and very pleasing and welcome and would accept it as an order, period whether i found it pleasing or not.

_____________________________

~~inner peace & mental clarity~~

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 18

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 8:49:25 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
This is great but I wish you and emerald would address what the OP said. The he can not always tell by the language being used. You ever see in the movie Jerry Maguire where Jerry and his gf are having sex and she is shouting, stop... don't... over and over then they zoom in and you realize she is really saying don't stop.

I thought I had, frankly, though round-about.

The impression that I got was the the OP was with someone new, looking to start a long relationship.

At first, I can understand how a safeword would be a good fallback.

However, I think that rather than continue to rely on a safeword, it is better to cultivate communication. Rather than continue to have "red' ready, to instruct ones property to tell him -exactly- what she is feeling, and to conduct excercises designed to further that end.

I'm trying to say that I think it is a good idea to start with a safeword, but a bad idea to rely on it in -any- situation. I think that while a safeword should probably be in place at the beginign of a relationship, the dominant party should, rather than encourage safeword use, encourage communication of sensation "Jesus that hurts!" etc.

It takes practice to be able to do this. I think that it should be worked on, though.

quote:

What the op was saying is what happens when communication is not so clear. He is trying his best to act responsibly and cause no harm. I can see the quandry he is in, until he really knows a girl alot better. I once had a dom smack my butt , I loudly exclaimed 'Ouch!'. He immediately stopped and started hugging me , saying poor baby. I then started laughing.

I don't know, I think that's a perfect example of communication working well. You told your partner what you were feelling, he decided based on your communication how ot react. He knew what he wanted you to feel, and hadn't produced that sensation, so he stopped. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

As I see it, the dominant party has something s/he's trying to make the submissive party feel. If the submissive party expresses feelings that -aren't- those, the dominant party wants him/her to feel, the activity changes.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 19

RE: Safe Word Use - 8/13/2005 11:53:04 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
I think the op posed a really tough question. What if communication is not so clear, then what do you do?

PA and ES2 hope this makes sense and I am hoping you will adress that question.

respectfully thanks :)

I actually did say this in my post- we use direct communication.

If your communication isn't so clear or direct, then make it so.

A first scene isn't the time to play "dont stop/but I want it" games. That's the advanced relationship skills section that comes AFTER the "Yes that's great" "Ouch the really hurts" part.

Personally I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a "No god I dont want that" and "No somethings wrong" scream. The difficulty is telling the difference between a "No I dont want that but want you to do it anyway" and a "No I dont want that but really do want it at the same time" scream.

Which is why you start slow, be direct, and don't play cutesy "push me" games until you've established a baseline.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 20

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