"Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment"

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Vendaval -> "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (11/30/2007 9:09:22 PM)
"Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" By Andrea Hopkins Fri Nov 30, 6:34 PM ET " CINCINNATI (Reuters) - A plan to freeze mortgage rates for troubled homeowners may help ease the U.S. housing crisis, but for wiser borrowers and those who have already lost their homes to foreclosure, such a plan seems unfair. "It's people's own fault that they didn't pay attention to what was going on," said Cincinnati high school teacher Peter Parker, 32, who cautiously borrowed more than $400,000 in the last two years to buy two investment properties. "It's not the government's job to bail them out." The Treasury Department is finalizing a plan with mortgage industry leaders that will hold interest payments steady for many subprime borrowers facing higher interest rates and possible foreclosure. While the details are not yet known, the prospect of a plan to rescue hundreds of thousands of homeowners from a deepening mortgage crisis has quickly won both fans and critics, including those who say a bailout sets a bad example for irresponsible banks and borrowers. "The government is punishing people who were more responsible in the way they took out mortgages," said Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital in Connecticut. "Of course they're going to be pissed." Schiff also wonders how the government will pay for the bailout -- and said the looming November 2008 presidential election was likely behind its timing. "They're trying to keep the you-know-what from hitting the fan until after the election," he said. "The rhetoric is 'We've got to help homeowners,' but the reality is it's designed to help the fat cats, Wall Street. It's bailing out the lenders." " http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071130/us_nm/usa_housing_hazard_dc;_ylt=Avtus94zMkCN1OYmw7GBwGZH2ocA

UtopianRanger -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 12:58:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" By Andrea Hopkins Fri Nov 30, 6:34 PM ET " CINCINNATI (Reuters) - A plan to freeze mortgage rates for troubled homeowners may help ease the U.S. housing crisis, but for wiser borrowers and those who have already lost their homes to foreclosure, such a plan seems unfair. "It's people's own fault that they didn't pay attention to what was going on," said Cincinnati high school teacher Peter Parker, 32, who cautiously borrowed more than $400,000 in the last two years to buy two investment properties. "It's not the government's job to bail them out." The Treasury Department is finalizing a plan with mortgage industry leaders that will hold interest payments steady for many subprime borrowers facing higher interest rates and possible foreclosure. While the details are not yet known, the prospect of a plan to rescue hundreds of thousands of homeowners from a deepening mortgage crisis has quickly won both fans and critics, including those who say a bailout sets a bad example for irresponsible banks and borrowers. "The government is punishing people who were more responsible in the way they took out mortgages," said Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital in Connecticut. "Of course they're going to be pissed." Schiff also wonders how the government will pay for the bailout -- and said the looming November 2008 presidential election was likely behind its timing. "They're trying to keep the you-know-what from hitting the fan until after the election," he said. "The rhetoric is 'We've got to help homeowners,' but the reality is it's designed to help the fat cats, Wall Street. It's bailing out the lenders." " http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071130/us_nm/usa_housing_hazard_dc;_ylt=Avtus94zMkCN1OYmw7GBwGZH2ocA I'm torn on this one. Really. On one side of the isle it's pure unadulterated greed. On the other side....it's a combination of mass psychosis, greed and utter foolishness. The dark side of the status-quo has definitely come home to roost. Do you punish the greedy bastards or the clowns? Or do you let the whole thing implode and punish both? Awww......but that would punish us all. [8\|] For the good of the nation--especially for those of us who've acted in a prudent, non-greedy manner-- I think it's good policy to bail out both the greedy bastards and clowns. We punish the greedy bastards by forever prohibiting ''the fine print'' and ''floating rate scheme.'' We punish the clowns by letting them keep their homes--at a frozen rate--- but they have to give up their HD TV's , Boat/Jet Ski /ATV and SUV's. I think that's pretty fair. [:D] - R

Real0ne -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 1:13:37 AM)
If we are going to bail out the banks, S&L, then if we are gonna bail out corporations then we should also bail out the clowns. we can have a bail fest every cycle.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 2:18:14 AM)
The problem with this bailout is that in the long run it serves to keep home prices at their inflated levels. That just makes it harder for financially responsible people (who will be the ones to pay for it in any case) to purchase homes. The fact is that the housing market needs to fully implode to bring housing prices back to an affordable level. Median home prices of $300,000 are absurd and only got so high because of speculation and flipping. Any bailout will just prolong the agony as this market can't sustain current levels with the median income in the country headed down. Yes I feel for those who will lose their homes, but the fact is that they never could afford one in the first place. They simply got into one on a market bubble that was a flaw in the system. Bailing them out now means they will face even higher payments when the bailout period ends and if they are making minimal payments they won't even build equity in the mean time. No matter what happens, sooner or later they are going to be broke and evicted. Better to fund affordable rental units and help with their moves. Oh yeah, that only helps the little people, not the banking fat cats. What was I thinking?

TNstepsout -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 6:13:42 AM)
Make not mistake, this is not being done to aid homeowners this is being done to help the banks and financial companies that invested TRILLIONS of dollars in loans and are facing write-downs of up to half a trillion dollars in bad loans. The homeowner is last on the list of the government agenda. The problem is that right now so many loans are bad that no one wants to invest in them. That means there is no money to fund new loans which means that the housing industry has ground virtually to a stand still until something is done. So the choice is to continue to let the industry correct itself, which could take another 2 years (there's about a trillion dollars in debt due to have an interest rate reset in March of next year-which means another large group of people who won't be able to afford their mortgage). In the meantime there would be many more foreclosures, many more homebuilders going out of business and laying off people, many more mortgage companies doing the same, more financial institutions writing down billions of dollars (which means more investors losing billions which means they now have less money to inject into the economy) etc.... So, as much as I hate to think that the greedy bastards are going to win, yes it will happen. There is big money and the economy as a whole at stake.

pahunkboy -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 7:38:16 AM)
- i can see how paperwork can be confusing. i must have signed 25 or more times when i bought my place. one cant possibly read all the print in a timely manner- so skimming the page..the problem is many were told the int rate was fixed- was a lie- fixed for 2 yrs. the problem is now the tax base shrinks. i double checked my note when i heard of this. luckily i went thru a state agency- so the entire state agency would be implicated if they pulled a fast one. this is what capitalism is. a market economy. if 10 people want 9 hamburgers the hamburger goes up. if 10 people want no hamburgers they rot. in its truest form- enriched uranium, and drugs would be allowed to bare what the market will bring. the part that pisses me off- is all the k street lobbiest that want deregulation galore- then industry messes up and the public till is robbed- legally robbed. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. this-as so many current debtes is fool me twice. this is why there is so much discontent with government today.

LadyEllen -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 8:32:36 AM)
No repossessions If the over extended homeowner gets into trouble, the house is bought out by the state and the people continue to live there, paying a rent to the state. Whilst they will never own the house, they will have a home. When they move on or die, the state will still own the house and can sell it or re-rent it to new people. Where the house is too large for the occupants (according to legally defined space requirements per person) then the state may move people into more appropriate accomodation which it also acquires through this process, or even divide larger houses into smaller homes to provide more accomodation for those in need. The mortgage lenders will receive payment for the home at 75% of the original mortgage (or whatever they might have received had they repossessed and disposed of it on the market - whichever is the lesser). E

Mercnbeth -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 8:35:18 AM)
Personal or corporate, you want your tax dollars used to fund a bailout? Are you all homeowners? Homeowners, are you all past due in your payments? Were you all "forced" under duress to commit to houses and corresponding mortgages that you couldn't afford? Are you delusional about your financial capabilities or just stupid? People fail because that was the most likely consequence of their own actions. They made commitment and plans that had a 1% chance of success and never considered the consequences of the other 99%, or most likely result. Now they want your dollars to bail them out. They want dollars from the people who are renting, or bought a house within their means. They want tax dollars from people who made a decision on the 99% side of probability. I say - let them fail! Failure is a good tool for learning. The expectation of having a someone come to their rescue generated the growing desire to create a 'nanny state'. Making a mistake should result in consequences. The childish pointing to others being bailed out by the government has created an environment of entitlement. Hard work has been replaced by the expectation of getting something for nothing. Trained at a young age when every participant gets a trophy, where no child left behind means that the whole class works at the slowest pace. The social engineers would say everyone finished first. To me it looks like everyone finished last. The lesson was learned though. Why try, why work, why worry; they'll always be someone, some entity, some bureaucracy there providing the safety net. Now this generation of homeowners wants and expects others to foot the bill for their failure. In an election year, I'm sure they'll get their programs; insuring the re-election of the political status quo. If you support these programs and the politicians running over each other to pass legislation; try not to be hypocritical and condemn them the next time some corporation gets a similar bailout. It is what you, the electorate, obviously want. A mommy/daddy that when the child 'strikes out', wipes their tears, pats them on the head, and says "here's your trophy for a nice swing!"

DominantEngineer -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 8:48:44 AM)
The only reason we are talking about a bail out is becasue it is and election year. The reason we are in the mess is because interest rates were so low for so long investors got greedy, wanting higher returns on investments, and turned to sub prime mortages. If there is any type of bail out the mortage holder should be given NOTHING for the house and the state should confiscate it. I bought a house just under two years ago and could have gotten a house twice the size with a ARM. But I didn't. Why should I have to foot the bill for those who bit off more than they could chew or the companies who dangled the meat?

Vendaval -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 11:49:32 AM)
That is my city's ongoing problem, funding to build homes for half a million and up, but almost no funding for rental units, modulars and condominiums. And this in a city where the population doubles when the univerisity is in session. Vendaval quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Better to fund affordable rental units and help with their moves. Oh yeah, that only helps the little people, not the banking fat cats. What was I thinking?

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 12:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Personal or corporate, you want your tax dollars used to fund a bailout? Are you all homeowners? Homeowners, are you all past due in your payments? Were you all "forced" under duress to commit to houses and corresponding mortgages that you couldn't afford? Are you delusional about your financial capabilities or just stupid? People fail because that was the most likely consequence of their own actions. They made commitment and plans that had a 1% chance of success and never considered the consequences of the other 99%, or most likely result. Now they want your dollars to bail them out. They want dollars from the people who are renting, or bought a house within their means. They want tax dollars from people who made a decision on the 99% side of probability. I say - let them fail! Failure is a good tool for learning. The expectation of having a someone come to their rescue generated the growing desire to create a 'nanny state'. Making a mistake should result in consequences. The childish pointing to others being bailed out by the government has created an environment of entitlement. Hard work has been replaced by the expectation of getting something for nothing. Trained at a young age when every participant gets a trophy, where no child left behind means that the whole class works at the slowest pace. The social engineers would say everyone finished first. To me it looks like everyone finished last. The lesson was learned though. Why try, why work, why worry; they'll always be someone, some entity, some bureaucracy there providing the safety net. Now this generation of homeowners wants and expects others to foot the bill for their failure. In an election year, I'm sure they'll get their programs; insuring the re-election of the political status quo. If you support these programs and the politicians running over each other to pass legislation; try not to be hypocritical and condemn them the next time some corporation gets a similar bailout. It is what you, the electorate, obviously want. A mommy/daddy that when the child 'strikes out', wipes their tears, pats them on the head, and says "here's your trophy for a nice swing!" [sm=applause.gif] Standing Ovation! [sm=applause.gif] Bravo!

popeye1250 -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 12:24:03 PM)
For once I'd like to see a President who protects the U.S. Taxpayers! This is the same type of crap as that "Forgiving the debt of third world countries!" What they're REALLY doing is bailing out big banks that made bad loans to third world countries. Instead of letting those bank's stockholders take the hit they're screwing the Taxpayers again! And incredulously these very same banks have again started lending money to third world countries who they know can't pay their loans! Duh, do they think that they're going to screw the Taxpayers again? You don't loan money to third world countries! And that's on top of all the foreign aid! This shit needs to stop! Corporate Banking is ripping all of us off! And we're in debt to the tune of $9 Trillion and people wonder why?

DesFIP -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 3:14:03 PM)
Affordable housing is essential. Without a home, you can't get a job because you need an address. Plus when areas lose people committed to their homes, the area goes downhill. Tenants and landlords do not keep houses in prime condition. Plus people are not always irresponsible. I live in the Hudson Valley. 20 years ago IBM built mainframes in several large plants around here. I knew responsible people who both worked in the clean rooms earning up to $80,000 a year each. Overnight IBM shut down all the plants and the entire Valley was pushed into depression. It's taken over ten years for us to recover. And much of the recovery only came because of 9/11 after which New Yorkers moved out of the city in droves. Since Westchester county was too high priced they moved into Putnam, Dutchess and Orange and the people who worked there moved further north into Ulster, Columbia, Sullivan and Greene. So who is at fault here? People who had a combined income of $160,000? IBM for having to close down a no longer profitable business division. And should we be grateful to terrorists for achieving recovery as a result of their actions? It's real easy to blame people, and do nothing to help keep families housed and together. Much easier to sit back and sneer at those forced to live in their cars, with higher rates of spousal and um abuse, higher rates of alcoholism and drug usage, higher rates of suicide.

petdave -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 5:20:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Affordable housing is essential. Without a home, you can't get a job because you need an address. The market will correct itself. If housing is truly unaffordable, then people won't buy it. If people don't buy it, sellers either have to lower their prices or hold on to it indefinitely. Sitting on a structure is no good- generally speaking, it loses value, and it costs money. So, the price is lowered to where it is affordable. Free Markets 101. i'm undecided on this one. On the one hand, the plan was designed to help banks that foolishly overextended themselves; i believe that the "threat" is overstated due to the election year, and as a conservative homebuyer with a great appreciation for schadenfreude, i say "fuck y'all". On the other hand, i do believe in the "ripple effect" of a major market destabilization, and that public opinion (and the media [:'(]) can cause that even when the actual threat is not as great as perceived. i guess, on the balance, i say fuck 'em, at least until Uncle Sam pays me back for my losing lottery tickets. BTW, good to see you active on the boards again, V [:)]

pahunkboy -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 5:28:56 PM)
keep in mind tha many homes are overmortgaged. a foreclosure once was a good deal- but now- most are not worth anywhere close what is owed. houses need upkeep- repairs and maintenence... i know someone who took a 3rd mortgage to fricken buy furniture! [San Bernidino CA] liquidity in the 80s meant cash- CDs, bonds... today it means what cash you can getsuch as home equity loans

popeye1250 -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 7:20:40 PM)
PaHunk, I don't know if you remember the late 80's/ early 90's when people purposely let their homes go into default and had "straw buyers" buy them back for less money from the bank. That started the buying again.

TNstepsout -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 7:26:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Affordable housing is essential. Without a home, you can't get a job because you need an address. The era of sub-prime mortgages did NOT create affordable housing. What it did was creat the ILLUSION of affordable housing while actually driving up the price of homes, land, and property taxes. Houses are now more expensive than ever, although they have come down a bit in the last six months.

farglebargle -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 7:32:05 PM)
The roof the roof the roof is on fire The roof the roof the roof is on fire The roof the roof the roof is on fire We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn Burn motherfucker burn

TheHeretic -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 7:43:51 PM)
Funny how things work out sometimes. We were planning to wait until the market really dropped to buy, but the ghettofication (I have no idea if that's actually a word) of our neighborhood pushed the timetable forward. If this goes through, maybe we won't be upside down on the mortgage next spring after all. Pretty well sucks for the guy I bought from though.

adoracat -> RE: "Mortgage aid plan sparks hope and resentment" (12/1/2007 8:00:19 PM)
~fast reply~ we're in a foreclosure. when the house was bought, wolf was making nearly 5 grand more a year. he had to quit that job because he has a funny addition to being able to BREATHE which he couldnt do at the former job. so he went from a manager to an assistant manager. he can breathe....less income. we also lost my former master/our roommate to cancer. that was nearly $800 a month that he contributed (rent plus groceries) gone. then we had to repair some things and found out that no, we had to tear down part of the garage because it was illegal, that we coudlnt do any of our own work, we had to hire a contractor. ok, now the electric company puts a lien on the house that if the electric gets cut off for any reason, we have to prove all the repairs/teardown has been finished to the city's liking before it can be turned on again. oh and the ceiling falls in in two places. no, none of this stuff showed up on the inspection. gee, go figure. so yes, it happens. kitten "who, me bitter? nooo...its just nearly caused a divorce is all...."

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