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Difficult Communication - 12/1/2007 10:07:11 PM   
onschuldige


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		I've read enough of the posts here to know that the only real answer to this situation is to communicate with my Dominant, but I'm hoping to get some guidance about how to go about doing just that more successfully than I've so far been able.

Though we met online on a BDSM website, this is a real time relationship and he and I have been together for a couple of years now.  We are nearly a perfect match for each other in every way, both in and out of the lifestyle. 

The "nearly" part is what is tripping me up. 

When we first met, he was very clear in communicating what it was that he was looking for with regard to BDSM and a relationship.  What he said he wanted was exactly what I had been looking for and we spent a great deal of time discussing in detail what we would work toward together.

The difficult part was that he was in a rough place in his life at that time.  He was making some pretty big changes and I knew that it would take a little time for him to get to a point where we could have the kind of life that we both wanted.  I'm a patient person and knew it would take time for our "vanilla" relationship to grow anyway, so I wasn't concerned about pursuing a heavy D/s relationship at that point.

However, two years later we are still pretty much where we were in regard to the D/s part.  We do have a wonderful vanilla relationship and a very healthy sex life.  There's just very little kink and little to no domination going on.  He's shown no interest in asserting control in any part of my life or exercising any kind of authority over me.  Kink is almost non-existent in our sex life.  Only on rare occasions will he tie me up and though he professed a great interest in spanking, I haven't seen any of that.  We have lots of toys that have never even been used.

The hard part for me is that as his submissive, I understand that it is up to him to decide the path and timing for our relationship.  I gave him that authority when I agreed to accept his collar.  But there has to be some point when he starts to live up to what he initially told me, no?  I love him with all my heart, but I never wanted a vanilla boyfriend.

I have tried bringing this up to him.  He gets very uncomfortable and makes excuses about not being sure about what I want or not being in the right place in his life yet, but then he quickly closes the subject saying that we'll get there eventually.  I always end up feeling like a cretin for even questioning him.  He has enough stress in his life without me trying to pile more responsibility on his plate.

Any ideas about how I can encourage him without pinning him to the wall with a "meet my needs or I walk" ultimatum?  I wouldn't want him to cave in to me just to keep me around as it would then just seem like I was dominating him.  And I already worry that he's reluctant to dominate me out of fear of losing me, even though I do my best to let him know that I want him to while trying to avoid sounding like I'm complaining that he's not.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/1/2007 10:24:38 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I don't usually respond to these sorts of posts, but I'll make an exception here for no good reason.
 
I don't buy into people who ask me to accept them as they *will* be (or promise to be), rather than as they *are*.  I'm a firm believer that what you see is what you get.
 
If what you see isn't what you expected, either adjust your expectations or change your surroundings.  It's been my experience that *making* someone into what we wish them to be (or what they wish that they were) isn't very successful.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to onschuldige)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/1/2007 10:30:52 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well I'll allow for at least one more shot at trying.  Sit down with him and honestly say "I really feel the need to discuss this. I need there to be an active authority transfer and I really feel like our expectations and methods aren't working for me.  How do you feel?"

If he gives the same excuses and put off you can say "I'm sorry, but this is something that needs to be discussed and actively worked on now.  The way things have been going have not been fulfilling for me and need to change."

If he pulls the dom card (ie saying Stop this ends now) you simply honestly say that you feel he is avoiding the issue and thus unwilling to change it.  If that is so, then you will have to see whether you can accept things as they are or not.  Then do that.

If he honestly opens up this time, sit down and clearly and honestly explain what you BOTH want in the relationship- what do you like?  What don't you like?  Put things into actions- what things does he DO that you want more of?  Less of?  Both of you think of at least three things you can implement tomorrow and try for at least a month.  In a month, look at things again- you can always change them around, add, take away, whatever you want.

But after years of this behavior, it's very unlikely he'll be open to change.  You'll have to make your hard choice of accepting as is or not.

Just be sure to say "I feel" and allow him to say how he feels as well.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/1/2007 11:04:00 PM   
Solipsistic


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: onschuldige

The hard part for me is that as his submissive, I understand that it is up to him to decide the path and timing for our relationship.  I gave him that authority when I agreed to accept his collar.  But there has to be some point when he starts to live up to what he initially told me, no?  I love him with all my heart, but I never wanted a vanilla boyfriend.


Since you don't actually have much (if any) D/s in your relationship right now, I don't think you should use your submissiveness as a reason not to force this issue.  Until he becomes comfortable in his Dominant skin, it will be up to you to give direction. 

Most likely, he is just having trouble making the connection between the fantasy he has in his head and the reality of your relationship.  I can relate to that, having come to terms with myself as a Dominant while being in a vanilla relationship that developed into a D/s relationship.  The one thing that tripped me up more than anything else was believing that my sub really wanted to submit.  It took a lot of convincing to get me past the vanilla walls I'd built up my whole life.  So I would say talk to him about it, be as encouraging as you possibly can, telling him very explicitly what you want him to do.  "Topping from the bottom" as they say, but once he is convinced it's ok, I'm sure he'll let down his walls.

(in reply to onschuldige)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:30:03 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe try inserting some ritualistic behavior in the dynamic yourself, see if he warms up to it. Kneel, call him Sir, little things - baby steps. Maybe he'll see that he likes it.

(in reply to Solipsistic)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:41:56 AM   
TwiztdErotic


Posts: 155
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		I'd suggest a different approach than those already offered. Rather than confronting him about his not being dominant enough, try crawling to him with a toy that you wish to be used on you, show him that you're ready to take things further and he just might rise to meet the occasion. Little things like kneeling and calling him Sir would help as well. If he still doesn't take any initiative, then you might try discussing the matter with him.

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:47:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Do the last four posts above.  Start being the thing you want to be, as you desire it, and talk about it, no passive agressive shit--- just demonstrate, communicate, and elucidate..........

He will or he won't.

Then you will be at the next step.

Ron  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to TwiztdErotic)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:50:37 AM   
fsub4use


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		you might also want to consider maintaining a vanilla - ish relationship with Him and see how He would feel if you submitted to others... and then all kinds of other questions could come up - with Him there, without Him... submitting to a man... a woman... both... it doesn't have to be all or nothing.... imho

good luck... i for one would like to hear how this turns out.

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:57:04 AM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		There's some advice (and unfortunately, I can't remember the poster's name at all, unfortunately) that I thought was pretty good about the play aspect. He stated that it was important to schedule a day each week for a play session and even if he didn't really feel like doing some play that day, to go ahead away. He found he could "warm up" to the session and that way, keep the play going. Basically be disciplined in his approach.

As for the domination thing, even if you talked about it before, it sounds like you need to do so again. You both need to define what that means to each of you. You need to tell him very clearly what you need from him and the relationship, and let him tell you as well. If he's feeling there are other aspects of the relationship that are getting in the way of the D/s part, he needs to come clean about it. Being too busy to be dominant? I'm inclined to replace 'busy' with 'lazy', as it's working for him to keep the status quo otherwise. What is he so busy doing that he doesn't have time for you and your relationship?

Being dominant is not something you "get to", it's something you are.

(in reply to batshalom)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 8:51:48 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic
I'd suggest a different approach than those already offered. Rather than confronting him about his not being dominant enough, try crawling to him with a toy that you wish to be used on you, show him that you're ready to take things further and he just might rise to meet the occasion. Little things like kneeling and calling him Sir would help as well. If he still doesn't take any initiative, then you might try discussing the matter with him.

That's advice I give to people just transitioning from vanilla, or when one person is really uncomfortable with opening up about their kink.

But since this has been a few years and obviously been on the table and communication has already reached a frazzled place- I thought passive aggressive behavior like that has a much higher risk of going bad and being misinterpreted and only adding to the fire.  Better to just go to the direct and honest route at this point to make everyone acknowledge and participate in the rebuilding of the relationship.

However, you used the word confront- my suggestion was NOT to confront him.  Having an open and honest discussion about feelings and expectations and hashing out solutions is not and should not be a confrontation. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 9:06:01 AM   
TethersEnd


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		I may be totally out in left field here, but it could be possible that what you have become something tender to him and his reaction to you doesnt go hand in hand with his darker desires.  ........... just a thought

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 9:23:37 AM   
TwiztdErotic


Posts: 155
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But since this has been a few years and obviously been on the table and communication has already reached a frazzled place- I thought passive aggressive behavior like that has a much higher risk of going bad and being misinterpreted and only adding to the fire. Better to just go to the direct and honest route at this point to make everyone acknowledge and participate in the rebuilding of the relationship.

However, you used the word confront- my suggestion was NOT to confront him. Having an open and honest discussion about feelings and expectations and hashing out solutions is not and should not be a confrontation.


So long as we both agree that confrontation is not necessary, I'll never advise against open and honest communication. Address the issues with him and let him know that you are ready to move forward. As long as it's clear to him that what you mean is "I'm ready for you to take control of me" rather than "I want to play right now" or "you're not dominant enough", there's no reason for anything to go bad or be misinterpreted.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 11:25:34 AM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		It's hard for me to tell from your post but i will share just a little thing about my experience just in case....

When my Daddy and i were first involved (well for quite awile after) i thought that he had no interest in being my Master....i thought he just wanted a vanilla girlfriend or something...someone that would occasionally do kinky things, but that was it.

i was SOOOOO wrong....i was looking at things from the wrong direction....i expected him to TAKE my submission from me...i expected lists of tasks and punishments for not doing them....this was not to be.

When i told him of my concerns he kind of disected a bunch of things....and then i realized that he did have ALOT of control, and just because he allowed me to make choices and because he didn't micro manage...that didn't mean that he wasn't being my Dominant.


so maybe he has more control than you think...maybe he wants you to actively submit to him...maybe not...but it's a thought.

If you are so inclined you can read an essay i wrote about it (it seems to have rung true with quite a few ppl, so maybe it'll help you too.) Laid Back Master  (Am I Domming Myself?)

cherry


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 3:14:17 PM   
Darkhaven80


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline 		Are you sure you're not dating my ex? I was in almost the same situation. I of course communicated heavily and that didn't solve anything. If you have voiced yourself as I'm sure you've had - over two years - then don't except change, despite what he says and how he tries to explain it.

(in reply to onschuldige)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 4:00:22 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fsub4use

you might also want to consider maintaining a vanilla - ish relationship with Him and see how He would feel if you submitted to others... and then all kinds of other questions could come up - with Him there, without Him... submitting to a man... a woman... both... it doesn't have to be all or nothing.... imho

good luck... i for one would like to hear how this turns out.


One cannot repair a relationship with one person by injecting another.  I would not follow this course of action.


_____________________________



(in reply to fsub4use)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 5:28:45 PM   
onschuldige


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all so much for your replies.  I definitely have a lot to think about now.  It seems that cherry has pointed out something that I hadn't really thought about.  He does have a lot more control over me than I believed.  Not by pushing me, but by leading me.  My submission is there even if he isn't demanding it. 

I think everyone here has given me a little bit to consider, too.  I can try to be more proactive in offering my submission, but I also need to respect that he is who he is.  I can only let him know how I feel.  It's up to him to decide what he wants to do with that information, and it's up to me to decide if I can live with his decision. 

Again, thank you.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/2/2007 7:50:12 PM   
daddyncherry


Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onschuldige

Thank you all so much for your replies.  I definitely have a lot to think about now.  It seems that cherry has pointed out something that I hadn't really thought about.  He does have a lot more control over me than I believed.  Not by pushing me, but by leading me.  My submission is there even if he isn't demanding it. 




Glad i could give a different perspective on this for you :) i hope that it is helpful.


_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to onschuldige)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/3/2007 12:15:16 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Solipsistic

quote:

ORIGINAL: onschuldige

The hard part for me is that as his submissive, I understand that it is up to him to decide the path and timing for our relationship.  I gave him that authority when I agreed to accept his collar.  But there has to be some point when he starts to live up to what he initially told me, no?  I love him with all my heart, but I never wanted a vanilla boyfriend.


Since you don't actually have much (if any) D/s in your relationship right now, I don't think you should use your submissiveness as a reason not to force this issue.  Until he becomes comfortable in his Dominant skin, it will be up to you to give direction. 

Most likely, he is just having trouble making the connection between the fantasy he has in his head and the reality of your relationship.  I can relate to that, having come to terms with myself as a Dominant while being in a vanilla relationship that developed into a D/s relationship.  The one thing that tripped me up more than anything else was believing that my sub really wanted to submit.  It took a lot of convincing to get me past the vanilla walls I'd built up my whole life.  So I would say talk to him about it, be as encouraging as you possibly can, telling him very explicitly what you want him to do.  "Topping from the bottom" as they say, but once he is convinced it's ok, I'm sure he'll let down his walls.



I second the above advice!  Interesting that some very serious posters have advised some very different paths to dealing with this.

My money is on the possibility that his fantasies are easier to enact while whacking off or playing with a casual partner.  He sounds like a nice guy, nice guys don't "hurt" their girlfriends, don't leave marks, and don't treat them as meat to be fucked and used.  I too struggled with this and until I met BSB I had never progressed much past "fluffy dom 102".

As LA said, he isn't being actively controlling/dominant so suddenly claiming that title to shut down conversation isn't fair and you shouldn't accept it.  A supportive conversation as LA mentions is a good idea, express your needs and desires and do so in way that you ask him to meet them and make it clear you not only know he can but loved it when he did it when your first met.  Make his inner dom feel safe to come out and play.

That said, you are trying to coax out his inner dominant and being angry or blaming isn't the way to do it.  Risk it, don't tell him "I need you to be more dominant" which in reality means nothing because it isn't specific.  Instead take small doses and reward him for it.  Ask him to spank you during some heated/romantic moment and then show gratitude.

That isn't topping from the bottom, there isn't a submissive out there that isn't in a better mood when she is well taken care of/used well than when she isn't. 

(in reply to Solipsistic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/3/2007 4:39:53 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		For all the crap posted here.yes some of it by me, it doesn't get any better than that. Nicely put Micheal


Jeff

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Difficult Communication - 12/3/2007 11:13:45 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Expecting your partner to change is unfair. Change is hard and therefore, unlikely. Your choices are to 1) keep quiet and go on like it is, 2) end the relationship because you are unfulfilled or 3) talk to him and see what he says. I recommend #3. At that point, you can choose your actions. Perhaps he's been waiting on YOU all this time to give him some sign that is obvious TO HIM that you are ready for said dynamic.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to onschuldige)
Profile   Post #: 20
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