RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning?

RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 5:18:18 PM)
No intel to confirm one way or the other, does not equate to good intel. Do another search, there was nothing prior to 2003 that proved that Iraq had gotten rid of all WMD's. The inspectors did not find any, and just rememer OJ was never convicted. The point is, no evidence of their destruction or of their storage, does not confirm they are there or have been destroyed. Saddam kept a bluff up because he wanted some to believe he still had them, mainly Iran, but his bluff strategy was his undoing. Bush and Co. did show unsubstantiated intelligence as reliable intelligence, I do not deny that, but what Stephan said still holds true, even if you use the word bullshit does not make it so. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: The real problem with Iraq, is there wasn't any good intelligence one way or the other regarding WMDs. Bullshit. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et. al. INTENTIONALLY DISREGARDED the Intel the didn't like and didn't fit their plans for criminal fraud. They INTENTIONALLY did not disclose the caveats required for the Intel they did present. There was plenty of Good Intel. It was just ignored by the criminals and their marks.

subrob1967 -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 5:27:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: The real problem with Iraq, is there wasn't any good intelligence one way or the other regarding WMDs. Bullshit. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et. al. INTENTIONALLY DISREGARDED the Intel the didn't like and didn't fit their plans for criminal fraud. They INTENTIONALLY did not disclose the caveats required for the Intel they did present. There was plenty of Good Intel. It was just ignored by the criminals and their marks. Give it a fucking rest already, you'll never get a conviction. quote: "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 But wait...There's more!!!! http://http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm Let me guess, now you're going to claim that all these smart people were hoodwinked by Dubya & friends. I call bullshit.

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 5:30:14 PM)
Weren't YOU hoodwinked by Dubya and friends? Didn't YOU support the Violent Overthrow of Saddam Hussein's Government based on what you heard? Why should you expect your legislators to be any more adept in uncovering the intentional web of lies, half-truths, and misstatements? That's what we pay the Department of Justice for.

Level -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 5:42:11 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc1h1wg7LeQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQVyznw2zE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG8ShMJAocM&feature=related

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 6:36:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc1h1wg7LeQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQVyznw2zE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG8ShMJAocM&feature=related What does that have to do with the intentional fraud committed by Bush, resulting in a million dead, or my comment about how pretty much everyone who is saying "Well Hilary should have known better before going along with the Iraqi-AUMF" WAS ALSO a gullible fool who fell for the con. It's ludicrous to for any of the Suckers who fell for the Fraud to suggest that anyone else who also got suckered in by the con-men are somehow less responsible than they are. People who fell for the Fraud, don't get to criticize anyone ELSE who fell for the Fraud. Hold the Fraudsters Accountable.

Sinergy -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:06:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning," saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion. Wow. We should definitely buy in to the Dipshit In Chief's administration's spin as to what President Clinton (on his way out of office) might have briefed him on? And you immediately jump on the "Clinton Bad" bandwagon? I have my own issues with Clinton, but I dont necessarily salivate when AnencephalyBoy spins something. Sinergy

Level -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:17:37 PM)
quote: What does that have to do with the intentional fraud committed by Bush, resulting in a million dead, or my comment about how pretty much everyone who is saying "Well Hilary should have known better before going along with the Iraqi-AUMF" WAS ALSO a gullible fool who fell for the con. It's ludicrous to for any of the Suckers who fell for the Fraud to suggest that anyone else who also got suckered in by the con-men are somehow less responsible than they are. People who fell for the Fraud, don't get to criticize anyone ELSE who fell for the Fraud. Hold the Fraudsters Accountable. fb, what it has a lot to do with is the OP; Clinton did NOT oppose the war from the beginning. He, and many other ranking Dems believed in the Iraq/WMD idea, as did many Republicans, and many citizens, and many people all around the world. Bush "pulled the trigger", but the Dems were right there, helping to load the gun. And no, Sinergy, this doesn't mean I equate Clinton with "bad"; it means that he's full of shit when he says he opposed this from the start.

juliaoceania -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:20:39 PM)
I have very little faith in anything Rice says... I have heard her lie under oath more than Clinton has, and about things more significant than getting a hummer. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0408-04.htm

juliaoceania -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:26:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I wondered about that too, fb, but no one on either side seems to be denying it much; George Stephanapolous (sp???) said Clinton was definitely "revising" things, and he certainly isn't on the Right side of things. George Stephanapolous was not in the loop in that time frame.

juliaoceania -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Bill Clinton sounding like a liar ? Say it ain't so, Joe... Of course it is easy to tell when a politican lies, their lips move... just saying, can't believe anyone on anything... I would never vote for Hilary or Bill

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:29:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level fb, what it has a lot to do with is the OP; Clinton did NOT oppose the war from the beginning. He, and many other ranking Dems believed in the Iraq/WMD idea, as did many Republicans, and many citizens, and many people all around the world. Did YOU believe the fraud? If you did, you can't fault either Clinton for falling for it... Now, show me a quote where Clinton says, in 2003, that he supports the INVASION OF IRAQ, rather than these vague assertions that he "supported the war", based on some statements about "regime change" back in 1998 OR the statements from 2003 where he DOESN'T say he supports an INVASION, as have been cited earlier, but rather the general policy....

Sinergy -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:33:53 PM)
Good luck getting people unable to think beyond the Dipshit In Chief's latest spin, farglebargle. Sinergy

Level -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:39:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Level fb, what it has a lot to do with is the OP; Clinton did NOT oppose the war from the beginning. He, and many other ranking Dems believed in the Iraq/WMD idea, as did many Republicans, and many citizens, and many people all around the world. Did YOU believe the fraud? If you did, you can't fault either Clinton for falling for it... Now, show me a quote where Clinton says, in 2003, that he supports the INVASION OF IRAQ, rather than these vague assertions that he "supported the war", based on some statements about "regime change" back in 1998 OR the statements from 2003 where he DOESN'T say he supports an INVASION, as have been cited earlier, but rather the general policy.... This is clear enough for me. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3222

juliaoceania -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 7:57:15 PM)
I read the fair article, and fair is very reputable, there is a big difference between the statements attributed to him in the fair piece, and saying that he was in on briefings to invade Iraq. I am no Clinton fan, just do not believe a freaking thing that spews forth from Rice's lips

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/19/2007 8:43:08 PM)
And the IMPORTANT THING is "Why buy the Bush Administration's MISDIRECTION from their own culpability towards whatever Clinton said"? It's not about what Clinton Said. It's about the Criminal Fraud Bush Committed.

subrob1967 -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/20/2007 5:11:26 AM)
Why don't you go over to the White House & make a citizens arrest? I'm sure you could prove your case in front of a judge, and since they're such fraudulent criminals, DC Metro & the SS will be happy to allow you access. Quit whining, and start doing.

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/20/2007 7:17:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why don't you go over to the White House & make a citizens arrest? I'm sure you could prove your case in front of a judge, and since they're such fraudulent criminals, DC Metro & the SS will be happy to allow you access. Quit whining, and start doing. So, did YOU fall for the Fraud, too? I keep ASKING THAT QUESTION, but no one has the balls to admit they were foolish enough the believe the fraudsters. While I am familiar with the New York State Laws regarding Arrest Without A Warrant, I am unfamiliar with the Federal Jurisdiction, I hadn't thought of it, but of course you have the issue of getting by the Secret Service Agents. Federal Marshals serving a Warrant for arrest subsequent to Indictment by a Grand Jury is so much more straightforward, isn't it?

samboct -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/20/2007 8:10:55 AM)
Fargie The problem is that with Clinton, the guy has enough brains to know when he's lying. You're assuming that Bush has that much brains as well. You're claiming that Bush was smart enough to dupe the world into invading Iraq. An alternative explanation is that he was really that stupid to believe his own claptrap- which means his actions weren't fraudulent. Either way- there's certainly reasonable doubt. Again, you can't arrest somebody for being a moron- although they can be impeached for failing to carry out the duties of the office. This is also where we disagree about other's responsibility. Your point is reasonable- Assume Bush masterminded the whole plan of invading Iraq, knowing all the while that it was complete BS. Well, then he's the best criminal genius since Dr. Evil, and you're correct, blaming somebody for falling for his BS is unreasonable. But I'm not sure that Bush is an evil genius mastermind- I think he's closer to Clouseau than anybody else. (A warmhearted look at Bush the moron can be seen in the movie American Dreamz- which in an eerie prescience, has the President judging a televised talent contest.) In that case- if somebody falls for a moron's BS- you're damn right I hold them accountable. And as one of the apparently few people who never fell for Bush's BS -and wrote letters to the NYTimes which were never published pointing out that the idea that Saddam had wargas capability wasn't being confirmed by my industry sources- not to mention the idea that you could develop bioweapons in a trailer was completely ludicrous, it seems like our system of an independent free press and a responsible legislature is broken. Relying on the judiciary- many of whom are executive appointments, seems to be naive. Stephan- agree with your points on sovereignity- although every so often, great states do apologize and write checks. Didn't the US agree to compensate families of that Iranian passenger jet that got shot down? Sam

farglebargle -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/20/2007 8:22:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Fargie The problem is that with Clinton, the guy has enough brains to know when he's lying. You're assuming that Bush has that much brains as well. You're claiming that Bush was smart enough to dupe the world into invading Iraq. An alternative explanation is that he was really that stupid to believe his own claptrap- which means his actions weren't fraudulent. Either way- there's certainly reasonable doubt. Again, you can't arrest somebody for being a moron- although they can be impeached for failing to carry out the duties of the office. This is also where we disagree about other's responsibility. Your point is reasonable- Assume Bush masterminded the whole plan of invading Iraq, knowing all the while that it was complete BS. Well, then he's the best criminal genius since Dr. Evil, and you're correct, blaming somebody for falling for his BS is unreasonable. But I'm not sure that Bush is an evil genius mastermind- I think he's closer to Clouseau than anybody else. (A warmhearted look at Bush the moron can be seen in the movie American Dreamz- which in an eerie prescience, has the President judging a televised talent contest.) In that case- if somebody falls for a moron's BS- you're damn right I hold them accountable. And as one of the apparently few people who never fell for Bush's BS -and wrote letters to the NYTimes which were never published pointing out that the idea that Saddam had wargas capability wasn't being confirmed by my industry sources- not to mention the idea that you could develop bioweapons in a trailer was completely ludicrous, it seems like our system of an independent free press and a responsible legislature is broken. Relying on the judiciary- many of whom are executive appointments, seems to be naive. Stephan- agree with your points on sovereignity- although every so often, great states do apologize and write checks. Didn't the US agree to compensate families of that Iranian passenger jet that got shot down? Sam Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et. al. are to be named in the indictment for Conspiracy to Defraud the United States. Bush doesn't have to be a Criminal Mastermind, he just needs to be a co-conspirator.

popeye1250 -> RE: Bill Clinton opposed war in Iraq from the beginning? (12/20/2007 9:34:32 AM)
I remember that time when Clinton was at Ron Brown's funeral, laughing and joking with a few other guys when he turned and noticed the cameras on him. He bit down on his lower lip and wiped his eye. What a complete bullshitter! The guy is a pathological liar, you can't believe anything that he says.

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