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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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The real problem with Iraq, is there wasn't any good intelligence one way or the other regarding WMDs.

Bullshit. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et. al. INTENTIONALLY DISREGARDED the Intel the didn't like and didn't fit their plans for criminal fraud.

They INTENTIONALLY did not disclose the caveats required for the Intel they *did* present.

There was plenty of Good Intel. It was just ignored by the criminals and their marks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The real problem with Iraq, is there wasn't any good intelligence one way or the other regarding WMDs.

Bullshit. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et. al. INTENTIONALLY DISREGARDED the Intel the didn't like and didn't fit their plans for criminal fraud.

They INTENTIONALLY did not disclose the caveats required for the Intel they *did* present.

There was plenty of Good Intel. It was just ignored by the criminals and their marks.

quote:


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

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ORIGINAL: Level

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc1h1wg7LeQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQVyznw2zE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG8ShMJAocM&feature=related

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ORIGINAL: Level

A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning," saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion.

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What does that have to do with the intentional fraud committed by Bush, resulting in a million dead, or my comment about how pretty much everyone who is saying "Well Hilary should have known better before going along with the Iraqi-AUMF" WAS ALSO a gullible fool who fell for the con.

It's ludicrous to for any of the Suckers who fell for the Fraud to suggest that anyone else who also got suckered in by the con-men are somehow less responsible than they are.

People who fell for the Fraud, don't get to criticize anyone ELSE who fell for the Fraud. Hold the Fraudsters Accountable.

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ORIGINAL: Level

I wondered about that too, fb, but no one on either side seems to be denying it much; George Stephanapolous (sp???) said Clinton was definitely "revising" things, and he certainly isn't on the Right side of things.

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Bill Clinton sounding like a liar ? Say it ain't so, Joe...

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ORIGINAL: Level

fb, what it has a lot to do with is the OP; Clinton did NOT oppose the war from the beginning.  He, and many other ranking Dems believed in the Iraq/WMD idea, as did many Republicans, and many citizens, and many people all around the world.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: Level

fb, what it has a lot to do with is the OP; Clinton did NOT oppose the war from the beginning.  He, and many other ranking Dems believed in the Iraq/WMD idea, as did many Republicans, and many citizens, and many people all around the world.

Did *YOU* believe the fraud? If you did, you can't fault either Clinton for falling for it...

Now, show me a quote where Clinton says, in 2003, that he supports the INVASION OF IRAQ, rather than these vague assertions that he "supported the war", based on some statements about "regime change" back in 1998 OR the statements from 2003 where he *DOESN'T* say he supports an INVASION, as have been cited earlier, but rather the general policy....

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Why don't you go over to the White House & make a citizens arrest?

I'm sure you could prove your case in front of a judge, and since they're such fraudulent criminals, DC Metro & the SS will be happy to allow you access.

Quit whining, and start doing.

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ORIGINAL: samboct

Fargie

The problem is that with Clinton, the guy has enough brains to know when he's lying.  You're assuming that Bush has that much brains as well.   You're claiming that Bush was smart enough to dupe the world into invading Iraq.  An alternative explanation is that he was really that stupid to believe his own claptrap- which means his actions weren't fraudulent.  Either way- there's certainly reasonable doubt.  Again, you can't arrest somebody for being a moron- although they can be impeached for failing to carry out the duties of the office.

This is also where we disagree about other's responsibility.  Your point is reasonable- Assume Bush masterminded the whole plan of invading Iraq, knowing all the while that it was complete BS.  Well, then he's the best criminal genius since Dr. Evil, and you're correct, blaming somebody for falling for his BS is unreasonable.

But I'm not sure that Bush is an evil genius mastermind- I think he's closer to Clouseau than anybody else.  (A warmhearted look at Bush the moron can be seen in the movie American Dreamz- which in an eerie prescience, has the President judging a televised talent contest.)  In that case- if somebody falls for a moron's BS- you're damn right I hold them accountable.  And as one of the apparently few people who never fell for Bush's BS -and wrote letters to the NYTimes which were never published pointing out that the idea that Saddam had wargas capability wasn't being confirmed by my industry sources- not to mention the idea that you could develop bioweapons in a trailer was completely ludicrous, it seems like our system of an independent free press and a responsible legislature is broken.  Relying on the judiciary- many of whom are executive appointments, seems to be naive.

Stephan- agree with your points on sovereignity- although every so often, great states do apologize and write checks.  Didn't the US agree to compensate families of that Iranian passenger jet that got shot down?

Sam