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Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/2/2007 11:36:09 PM   
PossiblyMaybe


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		I have recently stepped up an open long distance relationship by bringing up my interest and experience in bdsm.

After moving onto talking about it, we now sometimes have phone sex but just today he initiated.. phone play. He gave me some rules to follow until the next time we see each other at the end of January. I knew he liked kinky sex and was willing to spank me and maybe tie me up but I did not realize he understood the mind trip/ power exchange aspects. However, he did set some limits... I was completely thrilled when he told me that I could give oral sex to anyone I want to until the next time we see each other but not receive any pleasure (oral or penetration), and the only time I am allowed to cum is by myself or on the phone with him. This is one of the best requests I have been able to fulfill by a dominant, as he obviously understands my need for some amount of "freedom" and does not want to force me to be fully monogamous when we're apart but also wants to make sure that parts of me are for him only. He also gave me some other rules and told me to get some toys before he comes here next :)... I thought we were great together already but worried and wondered if I could be in a relationship with someone who was into kinky sex but not really into the lifestyle so to speak... I am very excited about the ideas and thoughts he has, and want to please him very much obviously...

... So, another thing he said on the phone tonight as he put it... Was that if I want him to be able to really get into it, I need to be more "bad"... the experience I've had in the past has been with Doms who want more of a good girl I suppose... I'm always kind of treated like the sweet little sub who is going to be defiled.. Maybe sometimes a little bit like a naughty brat but generally I tend to be treated as the "innocent". I work very hard to please my masters in the past to the best of my ability. I have had a little bit of power struggle play... but it's even harder with him because I want so much to please him I think it makes me a little shy.

First of all, I think by "bad" he meant sluttier and I assume less willing to obey? I know he gets really turned on when I tell him about "bad" things I do in life - from things that are completely nonsexual, like lying at work to things that are sexual like using sex as a tool for power, and manipulating people by using sex... or if I "corrupt" someone else somehow (I often exaggerate these kinds of thing for the sake of the story, as I do have some amount of morals and try to keep my power games consensual)

I am not sure exactly how to do this though, since I am so used to trying to be "good" not "bad". I don't think he really wants much power struggle play, so that's why I'm confused about the bad... I am nervous about not being able to do this correctly as it is so new.... can any masters give me any ideas to help me "train" myself to do this?

For Doms who like naughty subs anything specifically that gets you hot?

I really want to please him, but for some reason when he tells me things like this I just don't "instinctively" know what to do...  I know that in general I often feel I have problems with being a proactive/ spontaneous sub when my master asks me for something that catches me off guard or I am not expecting... However once I have been able to "study up" I am a fast and eager learner :)

Thank you ahead of time to any masters that are willing to take a little time to help me out. If any one does have extensive ideas on this and would like to hear more about my experiences or has further questions in regards to what he actually means I would be happy to start a dialogue over the collarmail.

Also, What makes you like "bad" subs? This might help me understand some.

:) Possiblymaybe

< Message edited by PossiblyMaybe -- 12/2/2007 11:37:34 PM >
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 12:09:51 AM   
fsub4use


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Might as well start out the typical answer here.   You need to ask HIM what HE likes.... it is all very individual.  That said, as a good sub - which you really seem to be - and you notice little details.... notice what turns Him on and give Him more of the same.  And trust yourself. 

good luck.

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 12:24:11 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		If it were me I would first want to have a conversation with him about how he defines bad...from your post it seems as though you really aren't sure.

aJ

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 8:22:51 AM   
Koala


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Hahaha... it's like you're reading my mind!

There's nothing that bothers me more than a sub who just takes things with a slight whimper. In play, I want her to try and fight back, from time to time, and be overpowered. I like a woman who is turned on by the knowledge that even if she wanted to escape, she can be overpowered more easily. It's most important that this is genuine, however.

I had one sub who would try to get a reaction that she wanted by pushing buttons. She would be deliberately bratty to get hit, choked, or restrained. That, to me, equates to trying to top from the bottom. I wouldn't take the bait, of course, and give her the opposite of what she wanted whenever she got like that. A few hours bound to the bed while I work on the computer are enough to send that message.

I'm thinking what he wants is feistiness. He wants to know that he is dominating a strong minded woman, not some passive girl. When a strong woman submits, it is extremely rewarding. He likely also wants you to be creative and proactive in designing play scenarios.

I would suggest being a little bratty. Tell him about this guy that you met, and how wet he made you. Go down on some guy you meet at a club in his car, then go back in to the club to pick up another. Buy a toy, and don't tell him about it until you're mid play session, then ask to use it. Suggest threesomes. Write a blog for him. Occasionally stand up to him, but always give in.

Hope this helped!

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 9:07:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Let's see; he doesn't like you as you are, he wants you to risk your job by lying to your boss or getting fired for violations of a moral clause. You have to lie to him to keep his interest. And this makes him someone who will keep your best interests in mind, how?

Shaking head.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 9:12:12 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		My hubby likes to "punish" me for being "naughty", but once he says it's time to lie across his lap or is ready to put me in restraints, he doesn't want me to struggle. If I struggle, that is considered a challenge to his dominance.

The "naughty" behavior he likes is if I do bratty things like flash him when nobody's looking or stick my tongue out at him, or just give him "THE look" that he says tells him everything he needs to know...
"that I've been a naughty girl and I'm asking for it."

Other times, he wants a submissive slave girl who hasn't done anything wrong at all, and is used because that is my purpose.

I can pick up on what it is that he wants by how he smiles or winks at me, or what he says. We've learned over the years. Since you are new in this relationship, you have to ask him straight out what kind of behavior is a little "disobedient naughtiness" and what is an unacceptable challenge to his authority, because one is part of the "play" and the other is a deal breaker. As your relationship deepens, you won't need to ask anymore.

_____________________________

Wife/property of CapnSpankins...and loving every minute of it! Visit my juicy blog http://www.kinkycrafts.info/gorgeous-blog/gblog.php for updates on my slave training!

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 9:31:28 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Koala
I would suggest being a little bratty. Tell him about this guy that you met, and how wet he made you. Go down on some guy you meet at a club in his car, then go back in to the club to pick up another. Buy a toy, and don't tell him about it until you're mid play session, then ask to use it. Suggest threesomes

And, OP, I would suggest that, if you really want this guy's approval, you better be sure what his reaction would be to doing such things as were just listed above.  If I "went down on some guy" and then told Master about it, there would be serious trouble.  I don't talk about other guys making me wet or buy my own toys and "spring" that on Him.  Those things are great if they're acceptable to your dom but I would NOT suggest running off and doing them without knowing how he'll feel.  That could be a very serious error.  Just my perspective on that..............luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 12/3/2007 9:32:44 AM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 10:01:37 AM   
Koala


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		The suggestions were specific to the OP. If you read her post, those are the types of things that she already mentioned.

(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 10:59:02 AM   
PossiblyMaybe


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Des- He does like me as I am, but at the end of the day... He thinks it's cute when I do something outside of his usual "good girl" perspective of me, and honestly I'm often frustrated often when he teases me about it so I don't mind... He never TOLD me to lie at work, I just noticed him getting very turned on when I did tell him about lying at work... However, I can see how you would be concerned about the situation and worried about me... I appreciate it very much :) However, I'm not a stupid girl willing to submit to just anyone... I appreciate it when a Dom gives me a challenge, and find it more of a turn on when they ask me to do things for them that I don't necessarily "want" to. Is it really any different to push boundaries in accepting pain, then to push personal boundaries as well? I think he knows that a part of me likes to indulge in this naughty side... Often, I complain of people thinking I'm a slut, or purposelly malicious in my interactions with other people when I'm just trying to have fun.. I think that he hears this and wants to let me indulge in something others don't while getting turned on at the same time... Sounds good to me :)... However, I can see why you would be concerned :)... For every safe, sane, self aware sub out there I'm sure there are a dozen lost people willing to let abusive people do bad things to them... However, for me personally - I need a dom who is a step ahead of me (at least) and willing to push my limits, or I won't be able to respect him... A dom who is willing to ask me to do things I wouldn't normally is a dom who is willing to test me and not stop when I cry or pout in the bedroom (unless I safeword, of course)... I think maybe you are being more defensive then necessary for me, but once again I appreciate your concern :)

Fsub4use and angelikaJ... I definitely know that you are right about talking to him about it, but I wanted to ask you guys first for ideas... Thought it might be nice to have the element of surprise :).. I think that does make it a little more fun for him if I am creative on my own and seem more proactive... Since he wants me to be "naughty" I can't really ask him for directions on HOW to be naughty... However, I definitely would if it came to that.

Koala... I got all hot and excited just reading your response :) It sounds like you hit the nail on the head... I am really excuted to explore this "side" of me and I appreciate it so much. I really love having a strong Dominant who is not afraid to keep flogging me if I struggle, tie me tighter, give me boundaries he knows I want to cross... I think you're right... it's not exactly that he wants me to be over the top bratty when we're together, he just wants to know I'm a bad girl when we're not and be creative when we are... I think the suggestions you gave are really good. I know that in my experience the strongest Doms want creative proactive sub even if they want one who IS the best and most submissive service oriented sub you can find... That's part of the reason I'm so excited about how creative he is even though he has not had much specific experience in the lifestyle... I like your ideas though there always is that bit of apprehension that if I tell him TOO many bad things I do, he will change his mind about what he wants... That is my own self conciousness though, (which is probably one of the things he wants to help me "break myself" of...) and a result of too many guys changing their mind about what they want later in a relationship. I guess I just have to go with it and see what happens. Thank you, thank you :)

gorgeous1 - Thank you :) I think the flashing him idea when no one is looking is a good one... esp if there are other people about. Definitely naughty, but in a playful way that would certainly not displease any master that I can think of!

Luci- Some Doms WOULD hate that kind of thing, which is why I think it makes me nervous.. but I think Koala is right, however I will ask him some "general" questions that don't touch anything specifically so I can make sure I'm not completely out of bounds and still leave the element of surprise open.

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 10:59:50 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		possibly,

Do not attempt anymore guessing games, if your not comfortable with direct communications such as asking, then make your best assumption and wait to be corrected if off the mark.

CP

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 11:18:26 AM   
Koala


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Slow and steady wins the race.

I wouldn't reccommend jumping from a story on how you stole a cookie from your co-worker's secret stash at lunch into practicing your oral skills with wanton abandon... lol...

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 11:27:36 AM   
PossiblyMaybe


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Prince - Thank you.

Koala- Lol.. I am not going to just completely change my "personality" over night, just explore! I know Doms don't normally use safewords, but I am sure that they have the same kind of "trigger" that subs do that if you change things too fast can overwhelm them quickly.

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 11:42:09 AM   
Koala


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Being "overwhelmed" entails a loss of control.

Hopefully he knows to lay down ground rules, and enforce them.

I guess that's the tricky part about having a novice Dom with a more experienced sub... the training has to go both ways.

I'd never really thought of it like that before.

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/3/2007 7:20:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well I applaud him being so honest and obvious with what he likes and wants.

This often happens when doms either aren't very secure in their dominance, or don't innately feel dominant and need a push to "excuse" their behavior and make it acceptable for them to act that way.

Subs also often need "permission" or to feel like they don't have a choice in the matter in order to really relax into it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 1:08:21 AM   
PossiblyMaybe


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
This often happens when doms either aren't very secure in their dominance, or don't innately feel dominant and need a push to "excuse" their behavior and make it acceptable for them to act that way.


He is much less experienced in the area, and like I said though I consider him a "kink" I don't think that he really has much experience with actual d/s... I have decided that I will get advice from experienced Doms on how to help him gain more confidence in it so that we both can enjoy it.. I think what you say about him not being completely secure and possibly feeling he needs an "excuse" makes some amount of sense, but if we both want to participate isn't giving him an experience he thinks is pleasant (as long as it is safe, sane, consensual) part of helping him become more confident in himself as well as me and my willingness to submit to him?

quote:

Subs also often need "permission" or to feel like they don't have a choice in the matter in order to really relax into it.

hmm as far as needing permission.. can you explain this a little more? Is this in relation to my question specifically or are you just saying it is kind of the sub parallel to Doms wanting the sub to be bad...?

I think I want to say more in regards to this but I'm a little sleepy now so I'm going to come back to this topic tomorrow.

Thank you very much for the insight though, I know I've read your responses on many strings on the message boards and often find myself nodding and agreeing with you.. So I definitely will keep this in mind.. as obviously I'm a little biased about him being smitten, and such.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 4:07:47 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

Subs also often need "permission" or to feel like they don't have a choice in the matter in order to really relax into it.


hmm as far as needing permission.. can you explain this a little more?


We are often restrained by the moral code of our upbringing.  Good girls get taken home to meet mommy, sluts just get passed around, I am sure you had similar condition, most of us women did.  Could also be that sex is dirty, or when caught masturbating as a child, we are dirty, any possible number of negative messages we are force fed at a young age that leave us with a negative imprint of our sexuality/gender.

Being told by our Top to go ahead and do it anyway, gives us the excuse we need to be able to work through that negative messaging, put it aside no matter how loudly it speaks to us and perform the task, and often as LA says it allows us to relax into the experience.  The desire to obey overrides the restrictions of negative programming, so we are given permission to experience.

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 8:18:50 AM   
Koala


Posts: 63
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		^^^ well said.

(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 8:47:04 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		To the OP, being "bad" is so "good"!

One way that you could be a "bad" sub, since you have been so sweet and innocent, is to send him things you think are hot. I used to do this with my Doms. I would find out what turned them on (and me too) and then send them links, either to websites, or porn, movies, toys, etc. and say things like, Oh I saw this and thought of you or This looks scary, but hot or I want to try this sometime, that kind of thing.

It always worked. But then again, I have always embraced my inner slut and I doubt I ever looked innocent.

(in reply to Koala)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 10:17:19 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

To the OP, being "bad" is so "good"!

One way that you could be a "bad" sub, since you have been so sweet and innocent, is to send him things you think are hot. I used to do this with my Doms. I would find out what turned them on (and me too) and then send them links, either to websites, or porn, movies, toys, etc. and say things like, Oh I saw this and thought of you or This looks scary, but hot or I want to try this sometime, that kind of thing.

It always worked. But then again, I have always embraced my inner slut and I doubt I ever looked innocent.



Oh yeah! I used to leave the computer browser open to a very naughty picture or story and then let hubby see what I'd been looking at...he'd "punish" me for being such a dirty nasty girl...

Can't do that anymore because of the UMs.

_____________________________

Wife/property of CapnSpankins...and loving every minute of it! Visit my juicy blog http://www.kinkycrafts.info/gorgeous-blog/gblog.php for updates on my slave training!

(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: Doms that like "bad" subs - 12/4/2007 10:06:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PossiblyMaybe
I think what you say about him not being completely secure and possibly feeling he needs an "excuse" makes some amount of sense, but if we both want to participate isn't giving him an experience he thinks is pleasant (as long as it is safe, sane, consensual) part of helping him become more confident in himself as well as me and my willingness to submit to him?

I think making friends together to show how those ideas that X behavior = bad guy are really false is a fabulous idea.  But that requires really being around secure doms- those are hard to find, no matter how much posturing they do to the contrary.

What will make him most secure with you two is simply being "you two" over time, working through the hurdles together and letting him settle down in himself.

As they say- the only way out is through.

quote:


hmm as far as needing permission.. can you explain this a little more?

As in, people are taught that X behavior is bad, so they need a reason to justify why X behavior isn't bad in their minds.  Either it's "just a game" or "they can say stop" or "no one's really getting hurt" or something.  Even worse, subs tend to be people pleaser types so simply getting them to take ownership of their own feelings is a difficult journey in and of itself, let alone standing up and being proud for their desires.

quote:

Is this in relation to my question specifically or are you just saying it is kind of the sub parallel to Doms wanting the sub to be bad...?

I was just giving a parallel- quite an insightful question there!


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PossiblyMaybe)
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