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ORIGINAL: HottLicks

It's hard to get into a relationship with all the dynamics you are talking about.  A lot of things stand out to me and I am not sure what I would like to comment on.  But basically it sounds like you got yourself into trouble and might be trying to find an easy way out or justification.

Whatever has gone on in the past and whatever is motivating whatever, can't be undone or figured out very easily.  We surely can't do it here or for you.  Would be nice if we could though.

Call her... email her... admit humbly without excuse or justification, what you know in your heart you need to admit.  Show her your submission because it sounds to me like she is asking you to willingly submit rather than her demanding it, because of how you controlled things early on. Maybe she wants you coming from another place and it sounds like you want to be there, but still are not there because you are expecting a certain outcome.  Were you mine... you wouldn't get it.  Why?  Because you are trying to get it after being in control at some point.  I would be showing you who was boss and would expect your willing submission as a bit of a test.  Sounds like she tests you and you keep failing because... guys will be guys when needy/horny/alone in motel rooms.

She knows you want more.  She also knows you have a hard time with obediance and going without.  When you figure out why she knows and continues as she does... you'll have your answers I think.  Dig deep...

On the other hand, yes, life gets in the way big time... but life isn't a condition of the heart and the heart of the matter is your current submission.  You say you can only submit with certain conditions and it sounds like she doesn't want conditions.  She wants your submission when she wants it, not when you wish to give it or feel you can.  Had you two had it all together in where you were going from the start, I wouldn't say this.  Because both need to be pleased and considered, but at the moment, it just sounds like a power struggle gone wrong.  Right yourself, impress her and maybe in the end, when you prove yourself... she might feel like meeting your needs.

Just how I saw it in my tired state.

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ORIGINAL: MisTabsDratt
My Wife/Mistress has decided that I should be "uncollared"... at least metaphorically.  I am free to find another Mistress if I desire to fulfill my needs.  I'm having  a very hard time with it, but I do understand where She's coming from.  I think we both need to take a step back and figure out what each of us wants/needs.  There's so much baggage that things get all messed up.

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happen. She cannot sit back and expect you to submit if she has given you no means to do that.

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ORIGINAL: MisTabsDratt

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ORIGINAL: LittleWench

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Firstly, my Wife/Mistress is of the school of thought that a sub's servitude should be given, not demanded.

It usually turns out that She has been resentful because of something I've done or not done and therefore hasn't wanted to play.  Most of the "bad" behavior of mine is because I'm not in a sub space and focusing on Her.  As one could imagine, this quickly becomes a very nasty downward spiral.  It eventually explodes, we question everything... Come up with a new plan of attack, which usually works for a few weeks and then old baggage/behaviors creep back in and down the spiral we go once more. 

Right now she's very upset because I disobeyed while I was on my trip.  For me it's challenging, because I really wasn't anywhere near a sub space and when I'm bored and horny in a hotel room by myself, well... things happen.  Honestly, I didn't think it would be that big of a deal since we have hardly played for the last few months, but apparantly it was.  We are currently trying to work through things.  To what end I don't know.  I know I love being submissive to her and serving her.  I know I don't focus on her enough.

You do have a lot of history to contend with.

But a couple of minor points......Would she feel resentful if she had control? If she has things the way she wants them and the power to effect it, there's no room for resentment. The baton is in her hand in that way. If you've done, or not done something, she can *do* something about it rather than fester.

I don't focus on M the whole time, I'm not naturally submissive and he knows that. I chose to be here though, but so did he.  I can't, (as Focus once said) submit to anything if there's nothing to submit to. The D/s dynamic is always there. It's never in any doubt, it's never off, it never takes a back seat as there is no back seat.

He is leading here, and if his foot comes off the pedal then the momentum slows. I don't pick up the slack.

agirl

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ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Well I was going to recommend a step backwards, but this seems to have been rather a giant leap! As I see it:

(1) I can understand why your Mistress might be trying to get you to move into the sub or slave mindset (it's not sub space, that's a totally different thing, that's a trance-like state achieved usually through deep play) ... it was all about you to begin with and She now wants to make the transition to being about Her ... and everytime you "fail", you reinforce the notion in Her that you don't really want to be Hers in that way. She feels "forced" in a way to flex Her authoritative muscles and set the bar higher in terms of giving you less reinforcement and expecting more from you. It's a bit of a vicious circle/spiral it seems.

(2) However, I also resonate with the poster that said it's about DOMINANCE as well as submission ... ie the Dominant shares the responsibility for working at the relationship. And that includes, in My book, recognising what their sub needs as a minimum, to keep them focused, to inspire their submission to be expressed freely. I think partly where the wheels are falling off is that you and possibly She equates this to PLAY. It can be ... but it doesn't have to be. And the rituals don't have to be long, complicated, or too obvious in front of the mini-me's! Here's a few suggestions, but obviously better if She dreams up Her own:
* kneel beside the bed each night and ask permission to get in (guaranteed to make you feel like sub and not hub!)
* start the day by greeting Her as Mistress and asking what She would like you to accomplish that day
* write a sub/slave journal ... you are eloquent and this would work ... when you feel temptation, pick up the PEN not the sword LOL
* make it your focus to devise one special and unexpected thing to do for Her each week ... all the while you are thinking about it and planning it will help keep you in the mindset
* walk a pace or two behind Her when you are out together
Pick just one to start with, work on that till it begins to feel part of you both, then perhaps add another. Don't let the first one go though! This is a building process.

I don't think dragging another Mistress into this situation is going to help any and I wouldn't want to be Her! There's enough baggage floating around here already without adding a third person's feelings into the mix. If you are both not ready to try something different between the two of you straight away, agree to go vanilla for a month and review ... but you BOTH have to go vanilla! Not sure whether She would be prepared to do that, or whether you would either. The other key to making a change and making it stick is to setting up a reminder/review process. Accept that at first the change will be hard to sustain on either side ... institute a no blame reminder process which can be given from either side ... a little hand signal or codeword can do the trick. What's more important is to establish and maintain the behaviour for at least 3 weeks consistently until the newness wears off and it starts to become a new habit. And stop and review after that time to see how that behaviour is working out and what, if any, you might both want to institute now.

Good luck to both of you.
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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ORIGINAL: HottLicks

I have to strongly disagree.  Throughout the op post, he is focused on a dream and his kink and self.  As a woman and a mistress, I have come across men who would say or do anything to get what they wanted and mostly what they wanted was sex.  Their focus was getting off and pleasing me in some way to get it.  I don't like topping, manipulation or a focus on self.  With someone who has done a lot of this, I am turned off.  I won't deal with them. 

In a D/s relationship, that I wanted to stay in, I would be requiring that my submissive prove he was working on these issues and I wouldn't be all that patient or understanding with a continous self focus and reward his failure by giving in to his demands or needs.  I consider all the needs of my submissive or partner, but not if he is using me to get his kink on in a way that isn't honest.

Saying you want to serve and put your dominant first and always going back to what you get out of it, is manipulative and dishonest.  I think she is fed up with it and wants to call him on his inconsistancy.  I may not totally agree on how it's all done, but I can understand why it's being done.

A submissive that wants to get something out of a relationship isn't a problem for me... they should get something out of it... but not by telling me how things are going to go, when they are saying they want to submit to me.  If he just wants what he wants and has played games with me, I would offer him another, because I sure wouldn't be putting up with the game of it for very long!

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ORIGINAL: toservez

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ORIGINAL: HottLicks

I have to strongly disagree.  Throughout the op post, he is focused on a dream and his kink and self.  As a woman and a mistress, I have come across men who would say or do anything to get what they wanted and mostly what they wanted was sex.  Their focus was getting off and pleasing me in some way to get it.  I don't like topping, manipulation or a focus on self.  With someone who has done a lot of this, I am turned off.  I won't deal with them. 

In a D/s relationship, that I wanted to stay in, I would be requiring that my submissive prove he was working on these issues and I wouldn't be all that patient or understanding with a continous self focus and reward his failure by giving in to his demands or needs.  I consider all the needs of my submissive or partner, but not if he is using me to get his kink on in a way that isn't honest.

Saying you want to serve and put your dominant first and always going back to what you get out of it, is manipulative and dishonest.  I think she is fed up with it and wants to call him on his inconsistancy.  I may not totally agree on how it's all done, but I can understand why it's being done.

A submissive that wants to get something out of a relationship isn't a problem for me... they should get something out of it... but not by telling me how things are going to go, when they are saying they want to submit to me.  If he just wants what he wants and has played games with me, I would offer him another, because I sure wouldn't be putting up with the game of it for very long!

I have to disagree from what I read in the OP messages. I think he has clearly communicated that he cannot turn on and off at the will of his wife, which is actually quite natural. That him disobeying was not out of focus on himself or acting up to get attention because quite simply he would not be posting this. These “play” things cannot just be turned on and off at will and I really felt this to be a classic example of two people who have issues on compatibility struggling or not making an effort to see if there is a middle ground in this area.

Not all submissives are built the same just like dominants. Play is not just play or play just for fun to many. There are also very strong mental actions. Weeks between any real dominant actions is just not going to work on a submissive that is not wired for play time or normal human being. Most of us simply do not have on/off switches.

Me for example I could never do casual play. Just could never handle it mentally. To me the wife describe by the OP is clearly just about occasional casual play.

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ORIGINAL: toservez

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ORIGINAL: HottLicks

I have to strongly disagree.  Throughout the op post, he is focused on a dream and his kink and self.  As a woman and a mistress, I have come across men who would say or do anything to get what they wanted and mostly what they wanted was sex.  Their focus was getting off and pleasing me in some way to get it.  I don't like topping, manipulation or a focus on self.  With someone who has done a lot of this, I am turned off.  I won't deal with them. 

In a D/s relationship, that I wanted to stay in, I would be requiring that my submissive prove he was working on these issues and I wouldn't be all that patient or understanding with a continous self focus and reward his failure by giving in to his demands or needs.  I consider all the needs of my submissive or partner, but not if he is using me to get his kink on in a way that isn't honest.

Saying you want to serve and put your dominant first and always going back to what you get out of it, is manipulative and dishonest.  I think she is fed up with it and wants to call him on his inconsistancy.  I may not totally agree on how it's all done, but I can understand why it's being done.

A submissive that wants to get something out of a relationship isn't a problem for me... they should get something out of it... but not by telling me how things are going to go, when they are saying they want to submit to me.  If he just wants what he wants and has played games with me, I would offer him another, because I sure wouldn't be putting up with the game of it for very long!

I have to disagree from what I read in the OP messages. I think he has clearly communicated that he cannot turn on and off at the will of his wife, which is actually quite natural. That him disobeying was not out of focus on himself or acting up to get attention because quite simply he would not be posting this. These “play” things cannot just be turned on and off at will and I really felt this to be a classic example of two people who have issues on compatibility struggling or not making an effort to see if there is a middle ground in this area.

Not all submissives are built the same just like dominants. Play is not just play or play just for fun to many. There are also very strong mental actions. Weeks between any real dominant actions is just not going to work on a submissive that is not wired for play time or normal human being. Most of us simply do not have on/off switches.

Me for example I could never do casual play. Just could never handle it mentally. To me the wife describe by the OP is clearly just about occasional casual play.

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ORIGINAL: petdave

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ORIGINAL: MisTabsDratt

I do love Her very much and wish to be submissive to Her on a much more consistent basis.  It's just been a very bumpy road.

Does any of this sound familiar?  Or am I on my own here and just being a dumb guy... :)

Man, i'm with you... doesn't mean you're not being a dumb guy, but at least you're not on your own [:D] i have a similar problem, because i'm naturally very submissive- to everyone, all the time, not one of the good subs like you- but i have to "act" as alpha male most of the time because it's what she needs (we have what i'd describe as kind of a Daddy sub/Domme girl relationship, which is weird). But, every so often she'll decide to pull rank, as i think of it, usually when we're visiting her family, and i'm supposed to immediately switch tracks from being the decision-maker, being the talker, being the do-er- which is all requiring a lot of conscious effort- to being acquiescent. Fucks me right up, and then she gets irritable and pouty, because i just *can't* switch over that way. As with your situation, we've discussed it a number of times, and she's made several promises to "do more", which usually last anywhere from a day to a month before becoming too much work, or some outside stress provides an excuse for her to go back to normal. 

All of which is to say... damned if i know. If  you figure anything out, hook a brotha up, 'kay? [&:]