RE: That was quick (and convenient)

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philosophy -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 11:06:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Given that the country was warned of just such attacks by the Islamic Crazy People (a tiny fraction of the world's Muslims), and the standard confusion, completely wrong first reports and lack of information in the media when these things happen, does this make anyone else say "hmmmm?" ....er....so what you're saying is that it's an Islamic plot?

kdsub -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 11:24:40 AM)
Alumbrado... you are very narrowly focused at times… It is NOT common for a teenage boy to kill 8 people then commit suicide. I’m not talking suicide statistics…I’m talking mass murder. Butch

Alumbrado -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 11:54:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Alumbrado... you are very narrowly focused at times… It is NOT common for a teenage boy to kill 8 people then commit suicide. I’m not talking suicide statistics…I’m talking mass murder. Butch I'm not talking cliches, I'm talking reality. You have your head comfortably in the sand while spouting platitudes, I'm addressing the real issue head on, and I'm the one who's narrow minded? Maybe you can be so at ease with denial when other people are dying because of it, but I'm not wired like that.

kdsub -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 12:28:13 PM)
OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then commiting suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration

philosophy -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 2:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then commiting suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration ......clearly most teenage suicides don't include killing other people. However, without further details, to call what happened an aberration may obscure the truth. It was certainly an extreme act, but not necessarily an act along a different axis to that of teenage suicide. We may find that if we focus on why so many teenagers commit suicide we may also eliminate such extreme acts of homicide.

Alumbrado -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 3:31:34 PM)
quote: We may find that if we focus on why so many teenagers commit suicide we may also eliminate such extreme acts of homicide. Thank you. And I stand by my assertion that if the media continues to glamorize these events, the number of teen suicides who choose this method is going to go up.

laurell3 -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 4:09:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Hi Theheretic I think most are missing the direction of your post…maybe I am too. If I have this right you are suggesting that there may be some kind of planned conspiracy. That it seems the information is too comprehensive and accurate to be realistic. If I am correct then what do you suspect? That this is some kind of government conspiracy involving local law enforcement, news, and political entities? Are you and realone wanting to turn this somehow into a black SUV, helicopter, brainwashing secret homeland security plot to boost republican support and instill fear in voters of the Midwest? The above said tongue in cheek but what are you suggesting? Butch Actually no Butch I'm not unintelligent enough to miss the point of these posts, I just chose to ignore the constant use of other's trauma to further ridiculous conspiracy theories. There's no merit to any such suggestion in this incident.

crazychris52285 -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 4:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then commiting suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration an aberration? excuse me? the kid had to have been depressed and/or extremely mentally ill to commit an act like this. how can you call mentally ill people an "aberration" when they do something like this?

kdsub -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 4:30:23 PM)
Hi philosophy Of course it’s an aberration…aberration is a deviation from the normal or typical… that is what this is. Our discussion is not the direction of this thread so this is my last post on this subject. But to group the 30,000 or so suicides in this country each year with the actions of this murder is an insult to those families. Please count with me…murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder. I do agree with Alumbrado about publicizing but that is impossible to stop.

kdsub -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 4:43:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazychris52285 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then commiting suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration an aberration? excuse me? the kid had to have been depressed and/or extremely mentally ill to commit an act like this. how can you call mentally ill people an "aberration" when they do something like this? Crazy... The aberration is in mass murdering not mental illness. Are you mentally ill?…. If so would you kill 8 people? To me murders can be sane or mentally ill but they are still murders. People that commit suicide can be sane or mentally ill… but that does not make the murders. That is my whole point…this guy was a murderer… who may or may not of been mentally ill. Butch

philosophy -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 4:50:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: crazychris52285 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then commiting suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration an aberration? excuse me? the kid had to have been depressed and/or extremely mentally ill to commit an act like this. how can you call mentally ill people an "aberration" when they do something like this? Crazy... The aberration is in mass murdering not mental illness. Are you mentally ill?…. If so would you kill 8 people? To me murders can be sane or mentally ill but they are still murders. People that commit suicide can be sane or mentally ill… but that does not make the murders. That is my whole point…this guy was a murderer… who may or may not of been mentally ill. Butch sighs ...the killer was possibly mentally ill ....the act was murder..... ...mental illness is, by your definition, aberrant... ....murder is also by your definition aberrant..... .....if we care about preventing further such murders then ignoring the mental illness aspect will just prevent us in our aim. Accurate strategies to prevent further murders is more important than any supposed insult to the families of those already murdered. ......i take exception to it being suggested that i am insulting the families of murder victims because i want to accurately figure out why it happened.

MasDom -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 5:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then committing suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration Aberation?.... Yeah damn straight, any one realize how old every one is who eventually does this sort of thing? 16-30 if you don't include serial killers. [:D]Funny thats about the time you try and figure yourself out, so it really makes sense based on the input of our society. Beyond the violent video games were given a world of dick teachers, and ass hole abusers who don't really give a shit about you. People put in control of your lives, who see you as a tool to use, or just a name on a paper they would rather not even glance at, let alone pay attention to. You know i,d say the Waco kids at least had a reason, if they weren't dumb enough to go shooting every other innocent kid that may have been just as much a victim like they were. But lately every one take a good look at whats happening to our social graces. Its not just the jocks treating people like nerds any more, Its every facet of control left their to keep this sort of thing from going this far failing, because people forget to care any more. Every ones a victim in these things, even the killer no matter how foolish they act. Accept for that Asian kid, he was just crazy. But still if only some one knew what to say to these kids, or do for them.. If only we went back to the days preachers, or teachers actually talked sense into you caring for your life instead of trying to fuck you. Maybe this shit wouldn't be happening. "So yeah an aborition, I agree!"

MasDom -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 5:08:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK real issue...give me some of your statistics that prove killing 8 people then committing suicide is normal for that age group. By the way...I did not call you narrow minded...I said narrow focused… two different things…To me it meant you were zeroing in on the suicide not the murder of innocent people. There is nothing common about that…suicide somewhat… mass murder hell no. He is an aberration 8 people? Thought t was one, and a whole lot of wounding? I get what your saying though, Most people wouldn't kill a mass group of people unless they were at least some what responsible. I mean was the person killed his ex's new boyfriend or Ex herself, or just some poor slub who became the closest corpse that day?

TheHeretic -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 9:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I think most are missing the direction of your post…maybe I am too. If I have this right you are suggesting that there may be some kind of planned conspiracy. That it seems the information is too comprehensive and accurate to be realistic. If I am correct then what do you suspect? That this is some kind of government conspiracy involving local law enforcement, news, and political entities? I'm not entirely sure what I might be suggesting, Kdsub. More just noticing the hair stood up on the back of my neck a little bit. Let's just say I'm throwing a (probably) crazy idea out for the hell of it. I'll try to tread carefully here. I've tossed this out once before and it went in another direction, badly (don't bother searching the thread. It went VERY badly). It's about Prior Restraint, or something along those lines. Let me put on my tin-foil hat, and bring up a few commonly recognized facts, and a few that don't make the paper so much. The mass media in this country move like a flock of seagulls. They can be counted on to be stupid and greedy. "If it bleeds, it leads." They sensationalize for a living. Getting the whole fucking country glued to the TV is their wettest dream. An organization of Islamic Crazy People is at war with the United States.They don't think we have the stomach and will to fight. They don't represent the Muslims of the world, but want to. In the aftermath of 9/11, there was a considerable backlash against both Muslims in this country, as well as those percieved to be of that persuasion. (The Sikh community in particular were targeted because of the religious requirment of a beard and turban. What adds to the tragedy is that their religious culture is heavily based in kicking Islamic ass). The ICP are terrorists. They can't actually do shit militarily, so they make a nightmare mess to scare us and rely on the media to do the broadcasting. Malls are pretty damn good targets for that kind of thing, especially at this time of year. The media had a chance to cash in last spring. The shooter in the Salt Lake City spree-killing WAS in fact a Muslim. It could have been a 48 hour Fear Fest. But not one of those stupid, greedy, birds went after the morsel. I have to wonder if somebody had already explained about the 7-11 clerks getting beaten up if they went there. Now we have another mall attack, also in a city where "this kind of thing doesn't happen." and damn if the whole thing isn't wrapped up in a neat bow by the 11:00 news. I even knew that the shooter had been fired from McDonalds for stealing $17. It all seemed very quick. And convenient. It stands to reason that we would deprive our enemy of their most important tool. That we would try to prevent the random hate-crimes that would be their best recruiting poster. But how could that be? The Bush administration is nothing but monkeys, right??? I'm just going to hope there isn't a 'gas explosion' in a food court.

laurell3 -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 9:17:10 PM)
My friend who's father died there and friend who was shot there and about 200 witnesses would beg to differ. Take your meds, you need them.

TheHeretic -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 9:28:51 PM)
I'm sorry for your friend's loss.

MissMagnolia -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/6/2007 9:38:37 PM)
Hugs laurell.

Alumbrado -> RE: That was quick (and convenient) (12/7/2007 1:00:48 AM)
quote: A teenager who opened fire on a bustling Nebraska shopping mall with an assault rifle, killing eight and wounding five, left a suicide note predicting: “now I’ll be famous”. And sadly, this will continue to be an attractive way to escape whatever problems drive people to the worst solution.

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