RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (Full Version)

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liminalRapture -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 6:55:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

It's just like the chess game. I'm making the moves, you're responding. Only unlike in the real game of chess I'm not playing to win, and so I'm keeping my pawn formation and taking care not to take your rooks or knights. I just want to have you move all your pieces all over the board for me, and each time you make a move I'm watching you like a hawk. As the chess player sizes up an opponent, I'm sizing you up as a Dominant. The skilled Dominant here would also be careful to keep their pawn formation and not take any of my pieces.


Stella--this is GORGEOUS!!!!!!  The whole thing!

I spent a lot of time lurking in the mid 90s one, and if I had read this, instead of some of the crazy stuff I read (a Dom has a right to cut off a sub's if she hasn't actually specified that as a hard limit--it was a long thread on the TES list--I kid you not), I think I would have stopped lurking years earlier.  This is just beautiful!  I hope you put it somewhere that is easily accesible to newbies.




BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 7:00:00 AM)

Not long ago, one of the ladies here posted this:

"I don't want to submit......... I want to be dominated."

I have met more than a few who could probably relate to that statement. 

I have also met some who I would consider bottoms and not submissives, and even more who are "situational submissives".  They only submit when the situation suits them.

Some people will only submit from within a perfect box.  Some will eventually expand their box and others will eventually break out of it altogether.  Some may get passed by because of their boxes, and others may find a dominant with a compatible box. 

Ain't people and relationships all complicated and stuff? [8|]   [;)]




DesFIP -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 9:53:40 AM)

No smart person hands over total control to a stranger. You start small and see if the self called dominant actually deserves the name.

Personal growth and creativity are for after trust in the relationship has developed. And that doesn't happen overnight.

The limits I have now after four and a half years with him are different than those I had the first day. But if I were to be playing with someone new I would go back to that laundry list of requirements. He earned my enormous trust in him, had he expected it first thing out I would have known he wasn't trustworthy at all.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 10:54:26 AM)




]
quote:

It's just like the chess game. I'm making the moves, you're responding. Only unlike in the real game of chess I'm not playing to win, and so I'm keeping my pawn formation and taking care not to take your rooks or knights. I just want to have you move all your pieces all over the board for me, and each time you make a move I'm watching you like a hawk. As the chess player sizes up an opponent, I'm sizing you up as a Dominant. The skilled Dominant here would also be careful to keep their pawn formation and not take any of my pieces.

Be patient. Your time is coming. Only whilst you're waiting, I hope you're also listening to my 'laundry list of conditions'. These aren't actually conditions, well they are.. they're instructions for you, guidance notes, as you see, being the submissive I am I come with my own manual, instructions and these conditions are there to help you and guide you through my process of submission. At this stage I'm not interested in 'creativity' or 'personal growth'. There's no point. The relationship might fall flat on its face in a month or two, which doesn't leave much opportunity anyway for creativity or personal growth.

Are you ready? Sitting comfortably? Now comes my offer of submission within the range of submission you require. Here we're equal, it's negotiation, but not quite, because you're expected to win here. Unlike the game of chess I'm placing my Queen in a vulnerable position. Are you smart enough to take my Queen? I'm not going to place it in a diagonal position to either your Queen or bishops.



I have never seen anyone put it so right and complete. Can I make you Queen of the subbies? At least for a day if not longer???[:)]




gorgeous1 -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 11:08:15 AM)

I've said it before...I am an Alpha Female and a control freak. I submit to no man or woman but my husband. Submitting to him is the way that I find release from my obsession with order, control, and having to have my way.

When we first met, I was sexually submissive, yes, but the rest of me was ALL ME ALL MY WAY ALL THE TIME. I had a good career, had my own money, made my own choices, and NOBODY owned me or told me what to do or who to be. Why? Because I didn't trust anyone to take care of me the way I knew how to take care of myself.

Over the course of 11 years, I have slowly and sometimes grudgingly given over control of some of my life. I stay at home. Technically, I have no money of my own...but what my husband earns is ours...we're a team. I have turned over all final decisions regarding finances, parenting, etc., to my husband...but we rarely disagree, and when he has been wrong, he has been man enough to admit his fault. I am a neat freak, and I used to HAVE to have everything folded, organized, and cleaned EXACTLY my way or I would flip out. Well, my first pregnancy I had to spend most of it in bed, and I learned to accept that my husband folds towels a different way, and he doesn't spend 3 hours polishing stainless steel appliances. I accepted that he wanted to help, was eager to help, and that it wouldn't be up to my standards, and that that was OK. I have learned to let go of selfishness, arrogance...so many things, and I credit it to him.

The small things were easy...I delight in being told what to wear and when. I hate that I have such long hair, but love that my husband won't let me cut it because he loves it too much. If he tells me to, I will drop to my knees. I have placed all of my limits into his hands, because I trust that he won't hurt me or damage me psychologically.

My answer to your OP is this then: Submissives will have a laundry list of what they won't do or what they won't give you if they see themselves as a person with something valuable to give. My husband earned everything I have given to him by never letting me down or putting me in harm's way. I trust he'll go out there and work his ass off to pay the mortgage and feed and clothe our family no matter what. I trust that he KNOWS me so I have no sexual limits with him (except sharing). He earned it, and sorry all you Doms out there...

I'll say it straight up...ANY SLAVE WORTH HAVING IS WORTH EARNING. NO THING OF VALUE IS FREE.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 11:10:49 AM)

quote:

Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding?


same reason many Dominants are submissive and undemanding.  it's just how they roll.  actions, however, speak louder than labels.

quote:

What is your personal experience with anger in "the Lifestyle"?


this slave sees plenty of anger expressed here on the message boards, but it is not at all representative of "the Lifestyle" this slave is a part of in the flesh-world.

quote:

Most seem to enjoy "topping from the bottom" yet calling themselves submissive and/or slaves. Many also place a laundry list of conditions that don't give much room for creativity or personal growth.


one reaps what one sows.




sexyred1 -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 11:14:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Not long ago, one of the ladies here posted this:

"I don't want to submit......... I want to be dominated."

I have met more than a few who could probably relate to that statement. 

I have also met some who I would consider bottoms and not submissives, and even more who are "situational submissives".  They only submit when the situation suits them.

Some people will only submit from within a perfect box.  Some will eventually expand their box and others will eventually break out of it altogether.  Some may get passed by because of their boxes, and others may find a dominant with a compatible box. 

Ain't people and relationships all complicated and stuff? [8|]   [;)]


Exactly. And forgetting the above statement is what creates posts like this and all the problems that many of us encounter when trying to connect with someone.

If you do not try to get to know an individual instead of a label, you are doomed.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 11:18:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1

...ANY SLAVE WORTH HAVING IS WORTH EARNING. .NO THING OF VALUE IS FREE.


false, as far as this slave is concerned.  she freely gave her self to Master...he didn't have to "earn" or "buy" her.  she trusted him with her life the first day we met in the flesh.  HE insisted on a safe call.  HE insisted that this slave match the information He was giving with the information on His business website, before we would meet in person, 10 days after our first contact via internet.
 
this slave also finds oxygen and sunsets and love and sharing to be of great value...and has never paid anything for any of them. [:)]




mhawk -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 11:38:13 AM)





i personally do not know how many subs/slave like that are out there i can only speak for myself.

i know better that to make demands of my Lord and my Mistress.i am allowed to make sugestions but that is all they are is suggestions.to make any demands of any kind i know i would most certainly be punished for that.and personally i don't ever want my floggings to go that way.






gorgeous1 -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 12:26:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1

...ANY SLAVE WORTH HAVING IS WORTH EARNING. .NO THING OF VALUE IS FREE.


false, as far as this slave is concerned. she freely gave her self to Master...he didn't have to "earn" or "buy" her. she trusted him with her life the first day we met in the flesh. HE insisted on a safe call. HE insisted that this slave match the information He was giving with the information on His business website, before we would meet in person, 10 days after our first contact via internet.

this slave also finds oxygen and sunsets and love and sharing to be of great value...and has never paid anything for any of them. [:)]



Excellent point beth...I met my husband by chance, and it was a very different situation. Our bdsm relationship has grown at the same time. We were both newbies. If I had been in a different situation, I am not saying that it wouldn't be different.

The point I was trying to make, it that to possess a HUMAN BEING...a living and breathing soul of worth, the Master must be worthy of such responsibility.




Heartisan -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/7/2007 1:57:18 PM)

quote:

Let me put it this way. I have had a few subs whom have approached/told me how I was to behave, how and when they would submit. The list goes on. I would say they where simply not polite about it. They would go on the attack with their approach so to speak. I see that many who have replied do not behave in this matter so you may feel insulted or simply I'm not being clear.
quote:



I thought your question was pretty well stated and interesting.  Some specific examples may have been helpful though.  Even from the sub perspective, I have seen those types of subs and I generally consider them more bottoms than submissives in my mind.  There are ways to ask for what you want in a submissive way that comes across as less demanding.  For a long time I've wanted to a demo at one of our clubs on "How to get what you want from your Dom" because I do see a lot being demanding, or whiny.  There can be a subtle art to manipulating your Dom (ok, dont' everyone jump on me now) in a good way.  Even for a Dom you just met, if you are interested, there is a way to appoach them with things you require that aren't as liable to put them off.  I've been complimented many times by Doms about how naturally submissive and well behaved I am.  Sometimes my switchiness makes me a bit sassy, but I also know there are times and places where that is more acceptable than others.

I do prefer subs err on the safe side though when it comes to limtatons during initial negoatiations though, better to be clear and safe than iffy and take chances.  Many Doms respect a sub who knows what they want... if approached in a respectful way in return.






simplyserves -> RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? (12/8/2007 2:07:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam
My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding?


My opinion is that submissives are not so different then dominants.  Everyone has there particular style or needs.  People have roles they play and roles they want the other person to play but when you get right down to it the only consistent difference is that dominants drive and submissives ride.

Why do some submissives back-seat drive, or top from the bottom, more then others?  They want to be in control, they just don't want to do the actual driving.  Driving is a lot of responsibility and requires more attention to one's actions.  Riding lets a person take in the scenery much more.  The degree of submission in some may imply a deep and intrinsic difference between the D and the s but I've always seen the fundamental line between dominant and submissive as narrow and fuzzy, at best, despite that many people are able to successfully broaden it for themselves.

Another way to put it is it's D/s not D|s, a little ASCII Yin Yang.




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