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Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 4:34:43 PM   
ShaktiWithLingam


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		I love submissives they give me warm fuzzes when I'm around them. The fact that many want to be owned, controlled and/or lead fits my personality.  I have a very different view of sub/slaves than most Dom/mes and Owners I know. I wouldn't say I personally want a doormat, but I'm not looking to meet a brick wall either.

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding? What is your personal experience with anger in "the Lifestyle"? Most seem to enjoy "topping from the bottom" yet calling themselves submissive and/or slaves. Many also place a laundry list of conditions that don't give much room for creativity or personal growth. 

_____________________________

Severin Shakti

"In the absence of information, information creates itself. What is true about quantum mechanics is doubly true in the affairs of the human heart." - Robert Reed
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 4:44:26 PM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well, it's probably very scary for a lot of submissives/slaves to give too much of themselves, for whatever reason.  I think one should always be ready to try things, though.  I have very few hard limits, but I had a lot of things I was unsure about trying.  However, I kept an open mind with those when my Owner wanted to try them, and I found that I liked them.

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 4:54:39 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Well, alot of us have learned the hard way. We are submissive but if we are not owned by a good master with integrity we have to look out for ourselves. When we succumb we can easily be taken advantage of by unscupulous abusers. Through experience i have formed a set of criteria as to how I am to be treated, a master earning my trust and showing that he had integrity.I have had those trying to order me around without even knowing me. Wanting all my info but giving none of their own and getting mad when i dont small cap and large cap. You know their name large, mine small. Abusers just here to prey on subs. This is where the crteria comes from. However, I do agree. You can criteria yourself out of a good master if you are not careful. I think everyone needs to show what they bring to the table as a person and Dom or sub and not a set of criteria. Tell me what you offer and I will tell you the same. then we will see if we are compatible.

(in reply to Shawn1066)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 5:29:55 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure who "most" are or the context of when this is happening.  If you're talking about the beginning of a relationship, starting play or just getting to know one another that's very different than an established relationship for me. It's not atypical for subs/slaves to have a voice in their own negotiation in the beginning of a relationship.  Building trust takes time.  I do have a list of conditions for how I start to play with someone.  Until I know for sure that the top has an idea of me and what they are doing I still have the primary responsibility for my safety.  The mere fact that someone says they are a Dom/me doesn't alone mean instant and complete submission.

As far as an established relationship, as Shawn stated and many of the threads here have proven, it's quite common for the list of conditions to diminish when trust and communication are established.  Totally giving up control over one's life isn't all that easy.  Instead of seeing it as "topping from the bottom" consider what they are saying and why.  After that, if they are truly topping from the bottom then don't let them.  A swift reminder that it's not up to them can go a long way.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 5:55:47 PM   
goodgirl08


Posts: 145
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam
Many also place a laundry list of conditions that don't give much room for creativity or personal growth. 


>:O This is my pet peeve in other subs. I understand if they are new and scared and whatever. But come ooooon, laundry lists scare good men away. If you meet someone really worthwhile who you can trust you can talk about that stuff later and how far your limits go. Keep your profiles relaxed and open, even if there are a lot of nutcases who will send you messages. They'll still send you messages even if you say "AND NO MESSAGES FROM CREEPY GUYS!!! EWWW"

-_- Just a thought.

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:10:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam

The fact that many want to be owned, controlled and/or lead fits my personality. 

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding?  


Gee, which is it?

quote:

I have a very different view of sub/slaves than most Dom/mes and Owners I know. I wouldn't say I personally want a doormat, but I'm not looking to meet a brick wall either.


Your brick wall might be another's deeply submissive slave.


quote:

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant 


They don't seem all that dominant to many of us


quote:

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding? 


Not all of us see high standards as an obstacle

quote:

Most seem to enjoy "topping from the bottom" yet calling themselves submissive and/or slaves.


Don't forget, perhaps they are only topping you or others don't see it as  topping but instead see someone with the self awareness to state exactly what they are looking for and refusing to settle for anything less.

quote:

  Many also place a laundry list of conditions that don't give much room for creativity or personal growth. 


Or that "laundry list" requires more creatively than you have.  As for personal growth, well that's just ironic, isn't it?

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:24:14 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I'm probably one of those dominant, demanding submissives.  But I view it more as a detailed owner's manual.  The owner's manual for my bike is almost 100 pages, and I'm afraid, I'm a lot more complicated.  I work in specific ways.  I simply don't surrender in other scenarios.  I wish I were a little less complicated, a little easier to capture, but I'm not.

That said, there is a paragraph in there which I meant to sound suggestive of things I adore but not a list of demands. 

The thing is, getting to know someone takes work.  If I think info will either make it easier for someone to capture me or decide we aren't right, I'm going to share it.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:33:20 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam

The fact that many want to be owned, controlled and/or lead fits my personality. 

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding?  


Gee, which is it?

quote:

I have a very different view of sub/slaves than most Dom/mes and Owners I know. I wouldn't say I personally want a doormat, but I'm not looking to meet a brick wall either.


Your brick wall might be another's deeply submissive slave.


quote:

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant 


They don't seem all that dominant to many of us


quote:

My quandary is: Why are many submissives so dominant and demanding? 


Not all of us see high standards as an obstacle

quote:

Most seem to enjoy "topping from the bottom" yet calling themselves submissive and/or slaves.


Don't forget, perhaps they are only topping you or others don't see it as  topping but instead see someone with the self awareness to state exactly what they are looking for and refusing to settle for anything less.

quote:

  Many also place a laundry list of conditions that don't give much room for creativity or personal growth. 


Or that "laundry list" requires more creatively than you have.  As for personal growth, well that's just ironic, isn't it?

What he said...


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:35:41 PM   
TethersEnd


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam

I have a very different view of sub/slaves than most Dom/mes and Owners I know. I wouldn't say I personally want a doormat, but I'm not looking to meet a brick wall either.
 

May I ask ~why~ you feel your views of sub/slaves differs from most? 
Why would a blanket statement cover sub/slaves yet make allowances for you to be so different?

Hummm


(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:39:55 PM   
ShaktiWithLingam


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		From your reply I see I didn't make things very clear for you to understand. Sorry about that.  I don't mean simply having standards I mean literally behaving like Doms. As to your which is it comment there are few whom enjoy their submissive nature this brings me much joy. There are others whom may enjoy their submissive nature, but clearly Dom the Dom. Not only myself but many others have faced this issue on many levels.

_____________________________

Severin Shakti

"In the absence of information, information creates itself. What is true about quantum mechanics is doubly true in the affairs of the human heart." - Robert Reed

(in reply to breatheasone)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:40:43 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

Well, I'm probably one of those dominant, demanding submissives.  But I view it more as a detailed owner's manual.  The owner's manual for my bike is almost 100 pages, and I'm afraid, I'm a lot more complicated.  I work in specific ways.  I simply don't surrender in other scenarios.  I wish I were a little less complicated, a little easier to capture, but I'm not.


You know, reading that I remembered every time I've heard a man wish there was a manual for women...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:41:08 PM   
ShaktiWithLingam


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		The statement wasn't meant as a challenge. I wasn't making a blanket statement. If it cam across that way sorry for the misunderstanding. There are many types of personalities. The few I'm asking about is to further understand  the frustration of submissives whom may feel abused, threatened or simply feel anger or need excessive control of a D/s or O/s relationship. If  you feel I have not made myself clear let me know. I take a mothering, teacher, provost approach to my own submissives. Again if I have not made myself clear let me know.


< Message edited by ShaktiWithLingam -- 12/6/2007 6:52:39 PM >

_____________________________

Severin Shakti

"In the absence of information, information creates itself. What is true about quantum mechanics is doubly true in the affairs of the human heart." - Robert Reed

(in reply to TethersEnd)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:42:17 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam

From your reply I see I didn't make things very clear for you to understand. Sorry about that.  I don't mean simply having standards I mean literally behaving like Doms. As to your which is it comment there are few whom enjoy their submissive nature this brings me much joy. There are others whom may enjoy their submissive nature, but clearly Dom the Dom. Not only myself but many others have faced this issue on many levels.


And how, exactly, do dominants behave?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:42:56 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		More generalizations and stereotypes doesn't really explain your post.  What is "behaving like Doms"?  Are you under the impression there is a true way for a Dom or sub/slave to act or that we all act the same?  What actions are you referring to?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:56:49 PM   
ShaktiWithLingam


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not trying to generalize. I'm working on the experiences of many *not all* subs whom try and take control of a D/s relationship.

_____________________________

Severin Shakti

"In the absence of information, information creates itself. What is true about quantum mechanics is doubly true in the affairs of the human heart." - Robert Reed

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 6:57:13 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		Some of them are only submissive to one person in partcular and you're not it and I'm not it. Too bad so sad.


(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 7:02:08 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiWithLingam

I'm not trying to generalize. I'm working on the experiences of many *not all* subs whom try and take control of a D/s relationship.


Right, but what do you consider taking control of the relationship? I mean, some people would consider me taking control because if Valyraen decides he doesn't want children, I'm gone.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 7:10:20 PM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline 		im very contiditional, and most people who know me think i am dominant. I am, from time to time, I even had my own pet in the past. But not with Him, He makes me melt into a puddle every time im near Him. It all depends on our pasts, our needs, our experience and what he's got. if he dosent got it, ill never sub for him. If He does got it, ill puddle all over the place lol

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 7:14:36 PM   
ShaktiWithLingam


Posts: 39
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		Like submissives Doms are diverse. I'm asking about the submissives whom feel the need to Dom the Dom. Conversely much like Doms submitting to a submissive. Again very few at this point of my post seem to think I'm challenging all subs.Not the case.

Let me put it this way. I have had a few subs whom have approached/told me how I was to behave, how and when they would submit. The list goes on. I would say they where simply not polite about it. They would go on the attack with their approach so to speak. I see that many who have replied do not behave in this matter so you may feel insulted or simply I'm not being clear.

I'm fairly flexible with the needs of anyone that chooses me. I know what I look for in a sub and/or slave. I personally keep it simple as I can. Let me know if this helps anyone understand the post better.









_____________________________

Severin Shakti

"In the absence of information, information creates itself. What is true about quantum mechanics is doubly true in the affairs of the human heart." - Robert Reed

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Dominant and conditional sub/slaves? - 12/6/2007 7:15:21 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ok...I understand that you are trying to be respectful and it's still not clear to me what you are really referring to, but expecting submission in the meeting/negotiation phase is a bit silly in my opinion.  Sometimes "telling" you how they will submit is called smart by others.  For example, in my opinion, saying these things are a dealbreaker for me or I won't/can't do x,y,z are not topping, but simple, smart communication in the negotiation phase.   The purpose of this phase is to determine whether you are truly compatible.  If you aren't, you aren't.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/6/2007 7:19:49 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to ShaktiWithLingam)
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