juliaoceania
Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
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quote:
Quite frankly, I don't think there are any rules for dating whether it is a mainstream date or a date between a dominant or a submissive. I think people would have less conflict if they realized that these unspoken expectations that they are carrying around are unrealistic and unreasonable. How can a person be expected to behave in a particular way if they do not know they are expected to behave that way?
There are social expectations when we extend an invitation to someone to go out with us. These are the rules of etiquette that people are raised with in this culture. I am not talking about opening doors, I am talking about the rules of etiquette of politeness, and yes I was brought up with these rules. There are expectations when I go out with a friend, family member, lover, or even coworker that if they extend an invitation to me that they will be paying. Especially if I have been the one to feed them or pay the last time we went out.
Same etiquette applies when I worked at bars (once upon a time I was a bartender), people would go out in groups, one person would buy a round, and the next time another person would... usually the men buying for the women in the group. This is social etiquette.... the rules of behavior that go unspoken for the most part. And like Celeste said, if people are going to ignore them without any prior discussion about that, this is rude and causes the other person to be uncomfortable.
quote:
As you know, we have a different take on the OP in that thread. The first post said "I did not have a choice about going to a pub, i give full control over to the Dom." That to me does not suggest getting to know you dates to decide if I want to submit to you. That says, I have already made the choice to submit to you and I have transferred all authority to you. When authority has been transferred then the rules of dating are whatever have been negotiated between the two people and if all authority has been transferred then the rules of dating are decided by the dominant.
I saw her posts as a very young sub who wanted to justify herself as a submissive on this board when she posed the question to the masters that were to read it.... she did not want to seem like she wasn't "submissive"... perhaps somewhat silly on her part, but people new to what we do can be silly at times... and youth can add to that impression.I could be wrong about that.. but her later posts on the same thread added to that impression, hence her doublespeak and what some perceived as "lying"... which she was rather confused.
quote:
Considering that she initially said she gave all control to the dominant, then yes, it is reasonable to expect that she stay because at that point it was his right (as given to him by her in relinquishing all control to him) to not pay for her drink. Once authority is transferred to the dominant, if the submissive defies that authority then they are not submitting. In this case, she was not good submissive material for that dominant, since she defied his authority. This isn't to say that she would not make a good submissive to the right kind of person, but she choose poorly who to give full control to.
I am so way over that line in her post, which was why I started this thread and left that part of the scenario out... it is still a valid question.. Do we hold our lifestyle dates to a different expectation than we do our vanilla ones? I actually decided to hold my lifestyle dates to a higher standard believe it or not. I do not date doms dutch... but I will a friendly vanilla guy... weird but true.
quote:
Is it rude to say something and then leave? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what is said and how. "You are an asshole; I am leaving" is rude to me. People may feel justified to say that because the person was being a jerk, but I don't think rudeness on one person's part justifies someone to be rude back. Since the person in the other OP walked out without a word or discussion, not only do I think it was rude, I think it was passive aggressive and immature.
If your are polite in telling them, "This isn't going to work out between us; we are not compatible, so rather than waste either of our time, I am going to leave early." To me, that is not rude.
The one occasion I left someone on a get-a-way weekend I was probably rude about it, I did not offer an explanation... although I did not need to because he knew he fucked up as soon as what he said came out of his mouth. If someone is crossing my boundaries of what I believe is polite behavior, I may or may not be rude back. It depends on if it is necessary to be "rude". I have my boundaries and if people step over them I will very much speak up for it. I would not have left the guy without saying goodbye, but I would have told him why I was leaving, like "I can't afford to date you, good luck with that"
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Do I think it is unsubmissive? If you are not submitting to the will of someone else, then you are not submissive to them. If you are exercising your own will in deciding to leave, then you are not submitting to them. That does NOT invalidate someone's desire to be in a relationship with a compatible partner and submit to them. It just means that they are not submissive to that person.
This scenario aside (the dutch one) and assuming the "getting to know you" period is over, are you saying if a person retains a measure of control over some aspect of their life isn't submitting to someone? Or are you saying that in that one area they are not submiitting to someone?
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To me, reasonable expectations are built through communication and observing past behavior. I do not expect someone to pay for me on a date if we did not talk about them paying or if their past behavior with me does not support them paying. On a first or second date (which is what that story ended up being about) I would not expect someone to pay for me. I also do not keep a balance sheet in my intimate relationships in that I have done XYZ for you and now you have to do something for me to keep this relationship going. I attribute the success of our relationship to the fact that all three of us give to the relationship. We do not seek to take from it. In giving and serving the relationship we all receive what we need.
At first I keep a running tab on the men I date, and if they do not offer to pick up a cup of coffee for me (I do not do bars) that is the last time I will probably see them... mind you I will often tell them I can buy it myself because I haven't decided if I like them enough to let them buy me anything... to me... and this is only to me, I am giving my power up to allow someone to buy me something. It is not something I let just anyone do because I am very independent that way.
I tend to have generous friends, and I am generous with my friends. Even in platonic friendships I have in the back of my mind that I want to show people recipocity for their generousity to me, and if they are takers they tend to not get far with me. And I am not talking just about money, I am talking about the type of people that need help moving, but are never around when you need them. The type that call you when they have an issue, but cannot be bothered when you have one... etc. To me someone that behaves the way that this dom did is what I term a taker, and I just do not have time for one of those.
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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard
Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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Different Set of Dating Rules For Lifestyle Relationships? - 
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