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RE: hypnosis - 11/3/2006 4:36:28 PM   
tyku


Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hypnosis is a tool.  Like any tool it can be used, and abused.  Also, like any other tool, people who communicate with the operator of a tool before it's application are more likely to know whether or not they would benefit from the operators' efforts.. or whether they need to seek a different party who might be more likely to apply this tool more efficaciously in their point of view.

In my imagination, anyone who uses hypnosis should minimally make an audio recording of the proceedings just in case they say something that causes some unintended result.

People can be manipulated to do anything anyone wishes.  Whether they are conscious or in an altered state will make little difference to someone skilled enough in manipulation, and/or hypnosis.  What matters, as far as I am understanding, is that people learn the difference between when they're being used, and when they're being abused.

(in reply to georgejames68)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: hypnosis - 11/4/2006 3:05:41 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyku

Verced is a good drug for hypnotic purposes. 

Versed is a controlled substance.
Versed is used for anesthetic.
Versed causes respiratory depression when used incorrectly, and without laryngoscope, BVM and ACLS meds, you might be putting your CPR skills to use as well.
Versed accidents happen in the medical arena under the administration of trained professionals, let alone while civilians are playing in some makeshift dungeon playroom.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to tyku)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: hypnosis - 11/4/2006 3:12:02 AM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

Tyku and Iron Bear, I still appreciate your posts.

Paradoxy, I'd be curious to find where you got that ax to grind.

Can hypnotism be abused? Of course it can! Does it allow people to be more suggestible and able to focus control over their body to do "extraordinary" things (control bleeding or control/alter/enhance/block sensations, create rigidity or catalepsy) sure it can. Can it lower inhibitions or create a feeling of well-being through the natural release of endorphins and neuro-transmitters that bathe the brain and in particular, the Corpus Collosum? Well, by definition, that's what it does!

But, baring drugs am I less in control in hypnosis than I am if I’m bound? No Effing Way!

The difference between hypnosis and S&M is that the hypnotized subject has the ability to emerge at will, whereas once I am bound without safety releases accessible by Me, I am helpless to the whims of those around Me.

Referring back to Post #19, Hypnotist4u, Would someone emerge if the sensation of pain is blocked and they are abused? Quite probably not, but that's not because they were allowing the abuse because of hypnotism, it's because their pain recognition was interrupted, allowing the abuse to occur.

People are abused through hypnotism, not because hypnotism is dangerous, but because an abuser found a victim. In S&M, the responsibility for safety has an external locus: the person or people controlling the environment. In hypnotism, the responsibility for safety has an internal locus. While it is nice when the responsibility for safety is shared, it ultimately is the subject's responsibility to maintain their safety. If they are tricked or abused while hypnotized, it is because they were taken advantage of... something that happens in the waking state, all the time.

I am sorry people have been burned, beaten, or financially whacked through hypnotism. But, gosh dang it people, this is a BDSM site. 80% or more of the people here are going, "That is so cool." There is not a single "DANGER" of hypnosis that various Dom/mes don't brag that they will do to their submissives or slaves in their normal waking state, and dozens of various submissives and slaves intimate that they are seeking the same.

This is a fetish site. Many of those fetishes have a potential for injury. Of all of those dangerous fetishes, hypnotism, in and of itself does not make the subject helpless. Any compromise to personal safety is acquiesced to by the subject. In and of itself, I am in less danger being hypnotized than I am if I allow Myself to be restrained, have My breathing restricted, drink to personal excess, or experience the effects of a drug. Why, because with hypnotism, the responsibility for My safety remains with Me.
 
Take Care,
 
MH 

Thank you for a really brilliant, sensible post.  It's not like we don't do other "dangerous" things like lighting people on fire with flammable liquids, suspending them from the ceiling beams, cutting and suturing their flesh in less than aseptic conditions, pissing on them and beating them about the body with whips and paddles!

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: hypnosis - 11/4/2006 8:44:58 AM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		this is something that i'm really afraid of. i was put under years ago to recall details of a trauma. The hypnosis went well and i recalled what i needed to without added trauma. i don't understand why but anything simular makes me freak out now or i fight it. i went to a class on meditaion a couple years ago and totally freaked out.
For some reason though i keep thinking about it.  perhaps because i think hypnosis, meditation and subspace are some what related states.
lil_joy

(in reply to Hypnotist4u)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: hypnosis - 11/4/2006 9:19:53 PM   
Dzeid


Posts: 22
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline 		I was wondering with the difference in opinions about hypnosis is there an academic-peer-reviewed journal that one could read? Does the hypnosis community have such a thing?

Dzeid

(in reply to druid)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: hypnosis - 12/1/2006 9:40:16 AM   
AGORANTE


Posts: 30
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The only way I would recommend using hypnosis is to be formally trained by a reputable teaching facility.

A blatant commercial advertisement!
Learn Hynosis Today!
Make women obey you.
 
Holy matchbook cover.

(in reply to Hypnotist4u)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: hypnosis - 12/3/2006 9:31:50 PM   
tyku


Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

this is something that i'm really afraid of. i was put under years ago to recall details of a trauma. The hypnosis went well and i recalled what i needed to without added trauma. i don't understand why but anything simular makes me freak out now or i fight it. i went to a class on meditaion a couple years ago and totally freaked out.
For some reason though i keep thinking about it.  perhaps because i think hypnosis, meditation and subspace are some what related states.
lil_joy

It sounds to me as though the person who worked with you didn't do enough to separate the traumatic emotions or whatever else you have in your unconscious/conscious that is connected to it from your hypnotic experience.. or there is at least one other possibility.

I suggest you imagine you're sitting in a theater all by yourself.. looking at the screen as you let a movie begin to form on the screen in which you see yourself undergoing hypnosis only as quickly as you can change your point of view by pulling it back to the point where you're in the projectors' booth watching yourself watch yourself go through that experience.. only comfortably.. as you stay watching what happens from the projectors' booth until the experience is completed.. and you step back into the you that's sitting in the audience before you step into the you that's on the screen..

..just my $0.02..

(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: hypnosis - 12/5/2006 11:25:04 AM   
MasterHypnotist


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora


Thank you for a really brilliant, sensible post.  It's not like we don't do other "dangerous" things like lighting people on fire with flammable liquids, suspending them from the ceiling beams, cutting and suturing their flesh in less than aseptic conditions, pissing on them and beating them about the body with whips and paddles!


Thank you for your compliment, Miss Pandora, it is appreciated.

MH

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: hypnosis - 12/5/2006 11:29:58 AM   
MasterHypnotist


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyku

quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy

this is something that i'm really afraid of. i was put under years ago to recall details of a trauma. The hypnosis went well and i recalled what i needed to without added trauma. i don't understand why but anything simular makes me freak out now or i fight it. i went to a class on meditaion a couple years ago and totally freaked out.
For some reason though i keep thinking about it.  perhaps because i think hypnosis, meditation and subspace are some what related states.
lil_joy

It sounds to me as though the person who worked with you didn't do enough to separate the traumatic emotions or whatever else you have in your unconscious/conscious that is connected to it from your hypnotic experience.. or there is at least one other possibility.

I suggest you imagine you're sitting in a theater all by yourself.. looking at the screen as you let a movie begin to form on the screen in which you see yourself undergoing hypnosis only as quickly as you can change your point of view by pulling it back to the point where you're in the projectors' booth watching yourself watch yourself go through that experience.. only comfortably.. as you stay watching what happens from the projectors' booth until the experience is completed.. and you step back into the you that's sitting in the audience before you step into the you that's on the screen..

..just my $0.02..



liljoy,

Tyku is recommending a very well established technique for disassociation. I would suggest you work with a competent certified hypnotist (the same person would probably be a benefit, unless you think otherwise) to bring these issues to closure for you. Remember, the hypnotist isn't psychic... we only know what you share with us.

All the best,

MH

(in reply to tyku)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: hypnosis - 12/5/2006 11:38:02 AM   
MasterHypnotist


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dzeid

I was wondering with the difference in opinions about hypnosis is there an academic-peer-reviewed journal that one could read? Does the hypnosis community have such a thing?

Dzeid



Dzeid,

If you want an academic journal, the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis would be a good resource. http://www.asch.net/ Its bias is that ONLY degreed and licensed mental health, dental or medical professionals should be doing hypnosis. (We all know that a doctor or psychologist would never do anything unethical with their patients.)

Another good resource would be through the National Guild of Hypnotists.  http://www.ngh.net/ NGH is an association of hypnotists degreed and non-degreed.

I'm sure you'll find good reading through both organizations.

All the best,

MH

(in reply to Dzeid)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 5:55:35 AM   
subtlesilver


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for a really brilliant, sensible post.  It's not like we don't do other "dangerous" things like lighting people on fire with flammable liquids, suspending them from the ceiling beams, cutting and suturing their flesh in less than aseptic conditions, pissing on them and beating them about the body with whips and paddles!

sorry but with all the above you know how to control them and within limits can predict outcomes
i am a qualified hypnotherapist and would really really ask amatuers not to dabble
you can't know what you will happen
and you may not be able to undo the damage

_____________________________

my mind tries to understand
my body just accepts

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 12:51:02 PM   
MasterHypnotist


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlesilver

sorry but with all the above" (sadistic practices) "you know how to control them and within limits can predict outcomes
i am a qualified hypnotherapist and would really really ask amatuers not to dabble
you can't know what you will happen
and you may not be able to undo the damage


subtlesilver,

Who wants amatuers to dabble in anything? Ask emergency room personnel what they pull out of people's rectums because amateur sadists or curious individuals were trying to do something without being proficient at it, yet. I guarrandamnteeya that you don't want to be the first person I use a whip on!

I'll sling lingo with ya, abreactions happen. (Abreactions are not bad, by the way, they're either carthartic or a construct for protection.) Manipulation happens. No one has said they don't. Hypnotism (used for good or weal) can only work with what is already there, nothing more. The one thing that hypnotism does not do, in and of itself, is create psychological problems.

If a subject does not buy into the program, they will not enable it to work. If the subject is given suggestion contrary to their belief system, being hypnotized will not make them mindlessly follow the suggestion. (The assumption being, we are dealing solely with hypnotism, and not using it as an adjunct to Pavlovian conditioning, sleep, food or sensory deprivation, coercion, torture, compromising the system with pharmeceuticals or alcohol, etc.)

Also, don't confuse, "Being made to do something you would not normally do," with, "Doing something you regret, later."

If hypnosis were mind control, 100% of My smoking clients would be tobacco free after the first session! Hell, My pet smokes, even though she knows it displeases Me. Why? Because even though she has willingly received layers upon layers of dynamic hypnotic conditioning in a myriad of modalities to be tobacco free, the secondary gains of her real life outweigh her desire to improve her health and please Me in our relationship.

Hypnotism doesn't scare Me. The whole BDSM scene scares Me. People willingly pay (or don't pay ;-) ) to have done to them what would be prosecuted under the Geneva Convention if it were done to a prisoner of war! A lot of Ds/ here might be able to get employment with secret police from around the world!

This is the only thing that I'll purposefully repeat from a previous post. Most sadistic practices focus control outside the subject. The person tieing the knots, securing the bonds flicking the leather, controlling the rheostat, etc is responsible for the safety of the subject, with the subject having a fallback responsibility of using a "safe word." Even then, both parties are probably, at one time or another, jacked with the idea of testing, or going beyond previously perceived limits. With hypnotism, while it is nice when that responsibility can be safely shared, the primary responsibility for safety lies with the subject, while the secondary responsibility lies with the hypnotist. I would much rather find myself wanting to get out of hypnosis, (because being in hypnosis is a cooperative experience) than find myself wanting to get myself out of suspension, breath play, electrical play, etc.

In other words, as with anything in this lifestyle, the submissive must live with the consequences of their consent. It's nice when the Dominant is there to support them afterward, but that's another risk the submissive takes.

All the best,

MH

(in reply to subtlesilver)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 4:09:13 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		i almost understand what you are suggesting almost.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyku

It sounds to me as though the person who worked with you didn't do enough to separate the traumatic emotions or whatever else you have in your unconscious/conscious that is connected to it from your hypnotic experience.. or there is at least one other possibility.

I suggest you imagine you're sitting in a theater all by yourself.. looking at the screen as you let a movie begin to form on the screen in which you see yourself undergoing hypnosis only as quickly as you can change your point of view by pulling it back to the point where you're in the projectors' booth watching yourself watch yourself go through that experience.. only comfortably.. as you stay watching what happens from the projectors' booth until the experience is completed.. and you step back into the you that's sitting in the audience before you step into the you that's on the screen..

..just my $0.02..


(in reply to tyku)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 4:20:20 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		MH,
The same person would not only be a bad idea but i would have no way of finding him. my hypnosis was many many years ago

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

liljoy,

Tyku is recommending a very well established technique for disassociation. I would suggest you work with a competent certified hypnotist (the same person would probably be a benefit, unless you think otherwise) to bring these issues to closure for you. Remember, the hypnotist isn't psychic... we only know what you share with us.

All the best,

MH

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 4:50:23 PM   
subtlesilver


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		(Abreactions are not bad, by the way, they're either carthartic or a construct for protection.)

but like all reactions have to be handled properly

and about 70% of my clients stop smoking after the first session
just wish i could find someone to help me stop

_____________________________

my mind tries to understand
my body just accepts

(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 7:12:06 PM   
tyku


Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I have found that asking peoples unconscious whether or not they will be successful at whatever the session was for helped to improve my success rate dramatically.

liljoy: I suggest that you seek out a practitioner of NLP in your area to help you with this.

subtlesilver: Spread caution.  Spread knowledge.  Spread ideas.  If amateurs never dabbled in things there would be little or no advancement in anything.  I admit that the person who first learned to create fire probably burned a lot of shit down as the first person who learned to harness the power of minds for their own benefit probably did a lot of stupid things as well.  I don't mind anyone doing anything so long as they know the relative limits of what it is that they're doing, and their level of skill in performing whatever it is that they're doing.

(in reply to subtlesilver)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: hypnosis - 12/6/2006 11:40:54 PM   
Dzeid


Posts: 22
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline 		MasterHypnotist,

Thank you for your responce. I will look over these web-sites when I have the time. And your posts to the over all topic have given me much to think about.

Dzeid

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: hypnosis - 12/7/2006 1:57:53 PM   
vivinna


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/30/2004
Status: offline 		i totally agree with what you said,my Master is a Hypnotherapist and very qualified

(in reply to Hypnotist4u)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: hypnosis - 12/7/2006 3:35:45 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		druid....more specific to your inquiry, I suggest you visit bestslavetraining.com and take a look at their hypnosis section complete with reference texts and the words of experienced players.. Hypnotic suggestion has been used as a slave training tool successfully for several decades. Of all the tools available to us for this purpose, it is most popular in High Protocol slave groups. If fact, most Dom's unconsciously practise a subtle form of it in day-to-day play. They will  drop their sub into sub-space, a trance like condition. Here, they are susceptable to suggestion. At this basic level of hypnosis you can, and often do, effect future behaviour to some degree just by speaking the words you do during that phase. Some reinforcment over time is required, but it does work. There are deeper levels of hypnosis that can take you further, but most of us layman stop before we actually try and tresspass into the medical field.  All you want to achieve can be accomplished in the first two or three levels of hypnosis.

Take a look at becca's article in that same site. It's romantisized as you would expect from a submissive/slave, but there is a truth there that can't be ignored.

I'm not a hypnotherapist, just a player with a few years under his belt.

Just an aside: but why are submissives such good writers? My late slave was the same...a brilliant poet.

"The musings of an old Dom"



(in reply to Hypnotist4u)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: hypnosis - 2/18/2007 1:06:36 PM   
degradess


Posts: 68
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		I have found a hypnodom and I found it to be scary, yes, but also the most powerful thing I have ever experienced.  It gave me a closeness to him that I have found with no other person.  Also had some of the intense experiences I have ever had in the bdsm game.  We are not long term but he has changed the way I think about play and for the better.  I don't recommend it to everyone but it's definately something different.

(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
Profile   Post #: 100
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