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RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 3:27:51 AM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RayvenGoddess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

People with tuberculosis aren't restricted and it's a disease that is airborne.  Thus, I find it intriguing that none of these individuals want to protect us from a disease that we can litterally get by riding the elevator with an infected individual, but they're after a blood borne pathogen with a very short half life outside the body.


Actually, there used to be TB colonies like how there were lepper colonies.  My grandfather's brother-in-law had to stay in one while he was infectious.





USED to be.   Point to a single, modern day legal precedence that establishes the right of the state to incarerate a person strictly on the basis of their medical diagnosis.

If a TB, HIV, or other patient with a horrific diagnosis refuses treatment then demands to be releaed from a medical facility, they are totally helpless to prevent him/her from walking into the general public.  

It has been a VERY long time since we incarcerated an individual on simple basis of a medical diagnosis asside from those who are mental ill and pose a physical threat to themselves or others as a result of their mental illness.  We HAVE incarcerated a small number of HIV patients be we did so because they expressed and acted upon a desire to intentionally spread their disease.

The days of isolation colonies are VERY long gone and it will take a Supreme Court ruling to reinstate them.

(in reply to RayvenGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 5:21:29 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		With TB, it depends on which case you are infected with. If you have the highly contagious antibiotic-resistant strain, you can be held in quarantine. That's what happened to that one guy earlier this year who snook back into the country with it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Speaker

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 7:07:53 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Hadn't heard about that incident, SubF.  Thanks for the link.  Based on what the article said about how rare this is, I'm going to stick by my point though.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 12:09:52 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Popeye,

Granted, both sides have major assholes in their ranks. It just seems that the GOP is the party of bigotry, intolerance, and cheating in elections. (They created the concept of the "October Surprise" and "Swift Boating" after all.) Thus making them anti-American in my view. The Democrats worst trait is that they honor the American concept of the individual and self determination so much that they often end up being diffused in opinion and ineffectual because of it.

I was talking with a science fiction author friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, and he made an interesting anology.... Our political world had evolved (or is evolving) into a situation like that in H.G. Wells' novel "The Time Machine." We have Morlocks (the GOP) and the Eloi (Democrats). One is warlike, nasty, and willing to use/abuse people and situations to their own advantage...no matter what. The other is peaceful, and brainwashed....  Still, which one did Rod Taylor (and thus Wells) decide was worth of carrying on the mantle of being "human?" 

I have a real problem with political parties, religions, and "philosophies" (Yes, like Gor and others) that support bigotry, misgynistic attitudes, and open hatred of "non-believers" simply on the basis of the "we're right because we say so" argument. Read the posts of the Republican hard-liners on these off-topic threads for evidence. Which side seems to advocate mindless violence more often? Which side feels we need to fuck over our basic beliefs in order to win the war?

Finally, I think it would be great if one of the GOP candidates would run independantly. It would split the vote on the GOP side, and ensure a democratic victory in November!

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 2:09:25 PM   
chellekitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RayvenGoddess
<snip>

We also all know how to NOT get HIV nowadays.  If you don't want it, wear a f@*%ing rubber or don't share needles.  Really, how can you say let's put all of the HIV + people into a colony when you can protect yourself so easily?  Should we put everyone with any STD in a camp, even if it is easily prevented by just being smart about sex?


ummm can i just point out that one of the pouplation groups most commonly infected with HIV today is medical professionals that get it treating infected patients? not thru sex...

and i know someone will take that as amunition to say we should just kill all people with HIV or to let them die...but...i can't stop anyone from twisting my words or the truth...so here it is for you...i did it first...i also happen to think that everyone deserves to live...and not everyone gets HIV/AIDS thru doing stupid shit, and even if they do, they are just human....like you, who ever reads this, hasn't done some stupid shit in your days...i know i have

chelle...just another human....


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(in reply to RayvenGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 2:31:15 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Look at the CDC stats: the use of universal precautions do a pretty good job of protecting medical professionals and in the event of an exposure incident the prophylactic use of anti-virals can drop the risk so that it is very small.

HIV is a fragile virus, it does not survive outside the body for very long.

Hepatitis-B can survive on a surface outside the human body for at least 7 days and still retain it's ability to infect.

We are each responsible in reducing disease transmission and it does not take extreme measures to reduce the # of bacterial or viral infections... .
Simple yet thorough hand washing for the time it takes to hum happy birthday is all it takes to halt the spread of many bugs... .
As for STDs, knowledge is the best defense...the use of barrier protections unless you are "fluid bonded" works better than putting people behind 'walls'. 

aJ



(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 2:34:41 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I agree with Huckabee that people with AIDS and anyone who is HIV positive should be isolated. I also agree it's being treated as a civil rights issue rather than a health crisis. People with leprocy lived together in colonies, so why not those with HIV and AIDS?



Those colonies were also done away with how long ago?

Your son has autism. Autistic children and adults can pose a danger to others as they often do not understand what they are doing when they bite and kick. Why don't we put them in colonies?

For that matter, what about every other STI? Camps for herpes! Camps for warts! Only the perfect and unburdened shall have the right to society!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 2:36:13 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I think people with TB are isolated until no longer contagious. They have to take a bunch of meds for like a year to cure it. But there is a cure for TB. There's no cure for HIV/ AIDS.


No but you have to do something to get it. You don't have to do anything to get TB. While we are on the subject, camps for hepatitis too!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 3:07:35 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Hadn't heard about that incident, SubF.  Thanks for the link.  Based on what the article said about how rare this is, I'm going to stick by my point though.

Then where did all those hemophiliacs with AIDS get it from?  They got hit the worst because you need a lot of whole blood to get enough Factor VIII or Factor X for a treatment.  And then the wives caught it from their (hemophiliac) husbands. 

This was shown in Newsweek or Time (more than 10 years ago); sometimes half the extended families were wiped out.

Check out "The Band Played On" to see some of the FUBARs of the goverment and the Red Cross regarding the safety of the blood supply back then.

thornhappy

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 3:19:17 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
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Status: offline 		No you should READ And the Band Played On, the movie was a ridicuolus heavily edited version.  The part in there where they Gay Clubs in Fisco were tearing down warning signs and having people prosecuted for passing out Condoms, really stuck in my head.  Also the people they cited as early carriers who intentionally spread it to as many people as they could, the flight attendant for example.  Left those parts out of the movie for some reason...

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 3:39:20 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

In 1992, Huckabee wrote, "If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague."
"It is difficult to understand the public policy towards AIDS. It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents."

He also wrote in 1992:
"I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071208/ap_on_el_pr/huckabee_aids


That was 15 years ago.  Not a lot was known about HIV at that time.

There was a local Fire Chief in Seattle at that time, who was fired because he had the unmitigated gaul to tell his fire staff (in cases of mouth to mouth) "because of HIV AIDS, any time you give mouth to mouth you are required to use a plastic mouthpiece separator between you and the victim".

He was fired.

6 years later they discovered that indeed, AIDS can be transmitted by saliva.

As to the other, he's a Pastor.  That's his belief.

Ask the guy if he'd consider lesser rights for gays...I'm confident he'd follow the Constitution as to that aspect...considering he's running for the Presidency....not Pope.

(And no, I don't support the guy...I just hate it when people put shit like this out, as if it has any actual bearing on any facet of reality).

In 15 years...have you changed your views on important subjects?

I have.

Moreover, when there's new data....such as the above.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 3:51:52 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Ask the guy if he'd consider lesser rights for gays...I'm confident he'd follow the Constitution as to that aspect...considering he's running for the Presidency....not Pope.


From Huckabee's website: "I support and have consistently supported passage of a federal constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman."

quote:

(And no, I don't support the guy...I just hate it when people put shit like this out, as if it has any actual bearing on any facet of reality).


I wasn't aware of Huckabee's views about HIV, so I appreciate CD's bringing it to my attention.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 5:03:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Hadn't heard about that incident, SubF.  Thanks for the link.  Based on what the article said about how rare this is, I'm going to stick by my point though.

Then where did all those hemophiliacs with AIDS get it from?  They got hit the worst because you need a lot of whole blood to get enough Factor VIII or Factor X for a treatment.  And then the wives caught it from their (hemophiliac) husbands. 

This was shown in Newsweek or Time (more than 10 years ago); sometimes half the extended families were wiped out.

Check out "The Band Played On" to see some of the FUBARs of the goverment and the Red Cross regarding the safety of the blood supply back then.

thornhappy




         If you'd read back a bit further, Thorn, you'd have seen that I was looking for incidents from this century, and the link wasn't one.  It was a transmission through the donated organs of a high-risk individual who had apparently just become infected with the virus at the time of death.

       The key words in your post are "back then."  I was inquiring about "now."

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 5:24:24 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		It's far less likely to happen now, but there is still a risk. Mostly it's healthcare providers and policemen who get stuck doing pat-downs. The drugs you can take if you know you've been exposed help, but they aren't anything you want to take unless you have to.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 9:01:11 PM   
sexypet


Posts: 225
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		[quote}

Why stop with HIV? Why not isolate folks with any STD?
[/quote]
Uh.........that would be about 80% of this site considering about that many are HPV carriers.

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This little girl just wants a Master. Just not any Master, that is.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/9/2007 10:51:17 PM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

In 1992, Huckabee wrote, "If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague."
"It is difficult to understand the public policy towards AIDS. It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents."

He also wrote in 1992:
"I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071208/ap_on_el_pr/huckabee_aids


That was 15 years ago.  Not a lot was known about HIV at that time.

There was a local Fire Chief in Seattle at that time, who was fired because he had the unmitigated gaul to tell his fire staff (in cases of mouth to mouth) "because of HIV AIDS, any time you give mouth to mouth you are required to use a plastic mouthpiece separator between you and the victim".

He was fired.

6 years later they discovered that indeed, AIDS can be transmitted by saliva.

As to the other, he's a Pastor.  That's his belief.

Ask the guy if he'd consider lesser rights for gays...I'm confident he'd follow the Constitution as to that aspect...considering he's running for the Presidency....not Pope.

(And no, I don't support the guy...I just hate it when people put shit like this out, as if it has any actual bearing on any facet of reality).

In 15 years...have you changed your views on important subjects?

I have.

Moreover, when there's new data....such as the above.



If you had said  20 yrs ago not much was known about HIV, that would be true...in the last 15 yrs, what has changed had been the treatments.

From the CDC's own FAQ on HIV transmission
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm
"HIV has been found in the saliva and tears of some persons living with HIV, but in very low quantities. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV."

World AIDS Day just passed and I am feeling appalled by the mis-information that seems to be prevalent if the proportions here might indicate.


(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/10/2007 7:14:58 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL
If you had said  20 yrs ago not much was known about HIV, that would be true...in the last 15 yrs, what has changed had been the treatments.

From the CDC's own FAQ on HIV transmission
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm
"HIV has been found in the saliva and tears of some persons living with HIV, but in very low quantities. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV."

World AIDS Day just passed and I am feeling appalled by the mis-information that seems to be prevalent if the proportions here might indicate.



Yeah...sure...let's go with that...but for the record, let's use a link from those silly guys at the Center For Disease Control.

Uh huh....yeah....that'd be the folks who quarentine whole sections, buildings....that kind of thing when the whole world goes to hell in a hand basket....

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00048364.htm

Allow me to quote from this link for those that choose not to read the entire thing....(and for those that are interested in reading it from the link itself...it's paragraph 10):

"Although the exact route of transmission in this report cannot be determined, the most likely possibility is that the woman became infected through mucous membrane exposure to the man's saliva that was contaminated by blood from his bleeding gums or exudate from undetected oral lesions. Such exposure may have occurred during "deep kissing"..."
 
I never suggested it's a common way to get HIV, nor did my original post even indicate that it was the typical way...I'd even go so far as to suggest that this report may even be the ONLY example or case EVER to have been thusly proven....however, when the original reference (to Mr Huckabee's comments) were written...I believe it was somewhat understandable based on what was known at the time...and frankly, the prudent person would do things to put themselves less likely in harms way.

And this was, as anyone can see, a direct quote from the CDC's web page.

(If I recall....the very same source that Ms. Angelika was so quick to chastise me from).

As an additional note, the same CDC report concluded with:

"The findings of this investigation underscore the multiple routes by which exposure to infectious body fluids can occur among sexually intimate persons. Uninfected persons considering intimate relationships with persons known to be infected with HIV should be educated about the rare possibility of HIV transmission through mucous membrane exposures."

It is never paranoid....to be prudent.
 
(It is, on the other hand, stunningly foolish to be naive).

< Message edited by Griswold -- 12/10/2007 7:20:43 PM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/10/2007 9:31:31 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Although I did quote from you and others I was not singling you out.

I have read the entire thing...and have had OSHA training on the same subject now since at least 1994.

This was the second post I made to this thread.

Better to be safe than sorry...?
always!

Blood-borne pathogens...(including Hepatitis-B)
Universal precautions.
Protectective barriers unless you are a fluid bonded couple.
(Which incidentally, might have prevented her from contracting the disease through contact with his bleeding gums...provided that education had been made available and both people chose to follow that advice.)

My objection was to the lack of apparent general knowledge...not to your post specifically.

The idea of placing people who are HIV+ under quarrantine bothers ME a lot.

Everyone else who posts here is entitled to their own opinion.


(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/10/2007 10:20:55 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Ask the guy if he'd consider lesser rights for gays...I'm confident he'd follow the Constitution as to that aspect...considering he's running for the Presidency....not Pope.


From Huckabee's website: "I support and have consistently supported passage of a federal constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman."

quote:

(And no, I don't support the guy...I just hate it when people put shit like this out, as if it has any actual bearing on any facet of reality).


I wasn't aware of Huckabee's views about HIV, so I appreciate CD's bringing it to my attention.


I don't understand why Huckabee thinks that way.
I mean what does he care if gays want to get married?
It doesn't affect him.
If gays want to get married I'm in favor of it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Huckabee wanted to isolate HIV patients - 12/10/2007 10:34:44 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Ask the guy if he'd consider lesser rights for gays...I'm confident he'd follow the Constitution as to that aspect...considering he's running for the Presidency....not Pope.


From Huckabee's website: "I support and have consistently supported passage of a federal constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman."

quote:

(And no, I don't support the guy...I just hate it when people put shit like this out, as if it has any actual bearing on any facet of reality).


I wasn't aware of Huckabee's views about HIV, so I appreciate CD's bringing it to my attention.


I don't understand why Huckabee thinks that way.
I mean what does he care if gays want to get married?
It doesn't affect him.
If gays want to get married I'm in favor of it.


If you want gay people to stop having sex,letting them get married is the best way.....

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 60
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