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Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 7:44:57 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		A minor dilemma that is often repeated.  Where do minor limits of the sub get trumped by the inconvenience to the Dom? 

I have lots of things that are important to me--my ex would like me to run a shower for him and then he'd just step into it when he felt like it and I just couldn't.  I was happy to get a shower going whenever he was ready but to leave the water running for 10 or 20 minutes--it was almost like he was testing whether I cared more about the planet or him.  Oy!!!  I just couldn't. 

The one that comes up repeatedly is Yahoo.  I'm boycotting Yahoo.  I'm involved with political activism and the capacity of the internet to help organize political change is one of my major sources of optimism this day.  Yahoo has testified against 4 Chinese bloggers, all of whom are doing jail sentences of 8 years to life.  Reporters without Borders is urging Yahoo to move their servers to another country so it would easier to avoid testifying in future cases, but Yahoo refuses to find ways to protect political bloggers in China. 

But time and again I find Doms who want me to get a Yahoo account because that is what they are on.  (I'm on MS Messenger, which can IM with Yahoo, but doesn't have all the bells and whistles.)

I\explain.  Attempted to be gracious and back up my argument with evidence.  That makes me look a little like a political nut, but that's probably OK as I kind of am.  I spose it is a good way of weeding out the men that wouldn't work for me, but I'd kindof like them to get to know me a little better before I present myself as so stubborn I won't switch my IM.  (But I've written letters to Yahoo--it is the only company I'm really, actively boycotting right now--it matters to me.)

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:02:54 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		to some doms your request will be perceived as nut jobish, , but to your future dom, the one you that is perfect for you, your actions will show commitment, passion, integrity and responsibility that will be totally irresistible.



_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:05:12 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings liminalrapture,

in general, i think it's good to work out some of these things up front...but yes, i can definitely understand being stumped by orders that go against your ethical beliefs, religious beliefs, political beliefs, etc. i am going to talk about what i do in this situation, and give some examples from my own personal experience, but this is not meant to function as advice, because i don't think that what i do will work for everyone nor do i necessarily think it's the best or right way.

unless there is a way to compromise or he is willing to approach things differently, i (up until now at least) have always followed his will above and beyond my own beliefs. i am pro-choice but due to our religion (we are both buddhist) planned to carry a child to term if i ever got pregnant, and probably would keep it. at this point in my life, if i get pregnant, it is his will that i have an abortion. also due to religious beliefs, before i was in a relationship with him i was very concerned with only having sex within a committed relationship. having sex with others, both those i am emotionally attached to and those i am not, is something that he requires of me, and i don't question that. on the environmental tip (since you mentioned water conservation) i am very against big trucks and suvs (and against driving in general - i don't know how to, don't have a car, and don't plan to learn until i have absolutely no other choice, in which case i will only drive if walking and public transportation are completely and totally not an option), as well as having numerous what i consider to be "useless" appliances that waste energy. he drives a ford tundra, which i try not to feel too guilty about. i never used to watch tv; i've started watching it a little bit in the last year or so, but he has two tvs in his house (and he is the only person that lives there), which just seems unimaginably decadent to me (in general, though, he's extremely minimalist...that's his one splurge. but it just feels WRONG to me).

and on the yahoo thing...i boycott yahoo most of the time because i think it sucks really, really bad, on top of all of the political reasons to hate it. so i tend to skip those pms that are all, "and my yahoo id is mastergrandpoobah" just because the fact that that's the intro to the conversation means that from the get go we are not compatible. hehehe!

respectfully,
annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:17:49 PM   
secretagentgirl


Posts: 70
Joined: 9/16/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it depends whether you are looking for a Dom who is also worthy of being your life partner. Or it depends how important it is that any guy you're in a relationship with meets your criteria.
And it sounds like in either case these things are important enough to you that you just need to stick to them and represent who you are.  As the prev poster said, the right one will come along and you'll do a more efficient job of weeding out the others.

I, for one, am highly impressed with your committment to your values.  If I were your friends, I might do some grumbling about your lack of Yahoo, but I couldn't argue with your point of view.
There is a man out there who will love you for how strongly committed you are to your beliefs.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:22:12 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you crouching Tigress--from your mouth to the deity of your choice's ears!!!

His annabelle,
I'm moved by your level of devotion.  It is far beyond what I think I could ever foresee having.  I talk about abortion upfront and that has been a deal-breaker with me in the past (although a very reasonable man said, once, "well, if we ever get to that point, we'll use two forms of birth control, and I was like "duh!"). 

The thing that is so frustrating with Yahoo is that it comes up at such an early stage!!!  I've got some really good qualities that may mitigate some of my political obsessions, but politics is so very important to me.  (Conservative politics is the only hard limit I list on my profile.  I have all the regular ones as well, but figure those come up later--I don't like talking about sex during a first chat.)

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:35:05 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The thing that is so frustrating with Yahoo is that it comes up at such an early stage!!! I've got some really good qualities that may mitigate some of my political obsessions, but politics is so very important to me. (Conservative politics is the only hard limit I list on my profile. I have all the regular ones as well, but figure those come up later--I don't like talking about sex during a first chat.)


weed them out early!!

stick to your guns...easier said then done, but when you do the results are so much more fufilling...i've tried compromising and it just doesn't work...if i am true to myself, i am content....maybe not happy all the time...i don't think that is what life is about.......but i am content...in my happiness, sadness, joy, anger...all those natural emotions...and life is good...

good luck
chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:39:50 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		In the flow of  your political tirade; I lost the concept of what your original question was.

Oh yea. That's right.

No, wait a minute. Now I am confused.

What the fuck does ethics, limits and politics have to do with running a shower?

/scratches head



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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:53:14 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist
What the fuck does ethics, limits and politics have to do with running a shower?


Running a shower for 10 or 20 minutes, with no one taking the shower is a huge waste of water and also of energy because heating the water takes energy.

I buy 100% wind power, buy carbon offsets when I fly, try to buy less stuff, shop in bulk, etc.  I try to do my best to have as small a footprint as I can on the planet.

I wouldn't tell my friends or someone I was involved with what to do, but for me to run a shower for 10 minutes or however long while he's doing something else, it just feels really wrong to me and I just can't do it.  Going against my political views becomes a limit for me.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 8:53:36 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What the fuck does ethics, limits and politics have to do with running a shower?


wasting water...the enviorment....not outright politics, but definately an ethical limit...

edited to add: and energy....umm she posted with much more elaboration while i was responding...


< Message edited by chellekitty -- 12/9/2007 8:54:55 PM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 9:09:51 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		Seems to me you are talking with people who are not compatible.  Of these things were that important to me I'd probably find someone who had a similar stance cause this one permeates our lives and how we live them.  It's a big point to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. 

So I don't think of this as a limit issue but rather about finding someone who is compatible with you.  trying to choice a square peg into a round hole may be a bit irritating from time to time.


_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 9:27:34 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		This is a compatibility issue.  You either accept their authority in this domain, or not.

We've all got quirks, most long term consensual relationships with an intimate part of them hinge on everyone's quirks working well together.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/9/2007 10:13:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Look for a liberal political activist type dom. I could not be with someone that did not honor my hippie ways.. it is just who I am. I have had two doms that were in love with that aspect of who I am, and neither one would change that passion I have for my favorite causes.

I boycott WalMart..so does Daddy.. and Daddy is militant about his recycled trash... well militant is harsh... adamant is more like it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 1:19:34 AM   
Surrenderwithin


Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		Master has a prime Directive for us that governs our relationship. It goes something like this;

I am to do everything in my power to remain as safe and healthy as possible, This includes physically, emotionally, mentally, spritually, and even ethically. If Master is gives me a command that could cause a threat to my personal well being I am to immediatly bring it to his attention for him to make a judgment call. I am to be a good caretaker of his property ( namely me). We may not always agree on things of a moral or ethical nature but he knows that I desire to please him above all else and would never use the primary directive as a crutch or excuse. It comes down to a matter of trust. master feels that it is vital for his slaves to like who is staring back at them from the mirror each morning.

This prime directive supercedes all other rules, and commands. It is a tool to ensure my welfare as well as prevent issues like the ones in this thread. I am curious if others have a prime directive in thier relationships.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 2:07:38 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

Where do minor limits of the sub get trumped by the inconvenience to the Dom? 


My guess is that this is the problem. You've putting them forth as "minor" limits when they are not. Stand up for what you believe...and find a Dom who cares about the things you care about. They're out there.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 4:40:48 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with MasterFireMaam... these are not minor soft limits, these are your morals, your ethics, you stand by them girl.  These beliefs speak of who you are, your passions, what is important, what puts a fire in your belly.  I am a vegetarian, I am not going to obey an order from a Dom to eat meat.


(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 4:46:20 AM   
fsub4use


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah... agree with the above.... some wicked brilliant people on this website.

oh, and i hate yahoo too.  it is such an invasive dreadful little program.  grrrrrrrrrrr.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 4:56:59 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		You shouldn't be with someone who doesn't respect your moral and/or ethical beliefs.  Period.  It's better to be alone than with someone who kills a little piece of your soul every day.


(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/10/2007 8:19:58 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: liminalRapture

Where do minor limits of the sub get trumped by the inconvenience to the Dom? 


My guess is that this is the problem. You've putting them forth as "minor" limits when they are not. Stand up for what you believe...and find a Dom who cares about the things you care about. They're out there.

Master Fire



Thank you for this--I tend to think of my political passions as a defect.  My family has always treated it as something just a little embarassing and weird.  IrishMists's reaction has been the norm since I was a kid.  And I'm not as left-wing as most of the activists I often hang out with (I can't stand the 9-11 conspiracy folks), so I tend to think of this as 'yet another defect my future partner will have to tolerate, rather than something I need to match on.  Plus, I hate to say it, but most of the left-wing activist men wouldn't have the guts to grab me and kiss me.  They tend to bore me on a romantic level.

My old profile was raving-leftie and the number of neo-cons who viewed me as a challenge--I literally had one man I went out with say that if I was a "real submissive" I would agree that global warming wasn't happening!  It was funny in a sad sort of way, but over the years it has reduced my expectations and hope a great deal.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/11/2007 1:54:24 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		I will also add that if my partner and I could not be creative enough to find a solution around this -- like using skype, or giving up the "bells and whistles" that would also be a big issue for me.  We will have issues which arise and our ability to find a workable solution is high on my list for compatibility.  Downplaying your political leanings in one way but then having them as a limit -- those are kinda opposites for me.   Lastly, compatibility is a bitch.  You've got the political thing.  Others have what they have.  It doesn't need to be a raving lefty to be OK with your leftist leaning.  But it does need to be someone who appreciates and celebrates your passions for causes which are important to you.    That for me is really essential.  Someone who appreciates my passions, who loves the fact that I can be passionate about things, and who has his own possibly overlapping passions.

Oh -- and I've got a sadistic revolutionary.  Don't give up hope on finding one. It only takes one right?



_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to liminalRapture)
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RE: Ethics and Limits - 12/11/2007 2:13:57 AM   
anubicdarque


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/5/2007
From: Adelaide
Status: offline 		Running a shower for 20 minutes  is a good way to get a serveral thousand dollar fine down here,  they are almost at the point of water rationing.
Ethical and polictical viewpoints  between a sub/slave and Dom/Domme/Master/every other title thats currently in use, should be compatible as part of the relationship.   I have full respect for girls who are vegetarian and I would not insist on one eating meat (though I do eat meat)  I would not have one pull out of Green Peace cos of my own views on them (long story)   nor would I tell her how to vote in the elections.
Just cos one can have "Total Power" over another dont mean one should take over that person.  The ability to does not mean you must do it.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
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