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Padriag -> RE: Fear (8/17/2005 7:00:07 AM)
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Ooooooh... you sneaky folks post the good stuff when I'm having a busy day... okay... lemme catch up here [:D]
quote:
ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Questions:
Are people in this lifestyle really able to handle fear better than those outside of it?
No... it just seems like it. Taking this message board as an example... you have a group of very vocal people, most of whom are also pretty self confident, posting. But for every 1 person posting actively, you probably have 20 who merely read and never contribute. Why don't they contribute? Well, certainly some may not have the time or the inclination; but some likely do not do so for fear they have nothing important to say, would not be well received, etc. If you include that, you end up with group of people not unlike any other group of "vanilla" people.
quote:
Are there people that come to this as a way to combat fear as a dychotomy they are helpless to otherwise understand?
I would say there are some yes. Some are looking for a dominant to fix them (which is risky at best, disasterous at worst, unless the dominant is a competent counselor and even then it only reduces the risk). Some are looking for answers. Some are looking for a place to belong... many are that. And as Em pointed out, they aren't really helpless to understand their fears, but they feel that way. Not everyone is good at self analysis, at seeing themselves or their problems objectively. Thats why we have counselors and therapists and psychiatrist. There's an old adage I used to hear in the psyche field... "We don't really do anything, we just listen to the patient until they figure out the answer themselves and pay us for it." There's a grain of truth to that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Faramir
-Women who are terrified that they are unlovable, worth anything, and so they sabotage relationships to "prove" that no oen can love them. I remember the first girl I met on B.com. Our first meeting was for three days and was pretty amazing. She was sure though I couldn't really want her - I was bound to want a younger, hotter girl - throw her out for a newer model.
To that add this variation which often has the same symptomology but a different root cause.
Women who fear being loved, for fear of being hurt, failing expectations, fear the love won't last, etc. Some genuinely believe they are unlovable, but others fully believe they can be loved and want to be loved... they just won't allow it, or allow it and then sabotage it later when the fear grips them. That self sabotaging behavior is quite commonplace actually. I've learned over the years that if a woman is determined to keep me from loving her, not to argue. As a lover I can't effectively help her deal with it. She needs a friend, or better still a counselor for that. I find this most common place in women who lacked a good example of a loving relationship growing up... or who's parents had a particularly nasty failed relationship. In the later case the trauma experienced as a child from seeing that can override later examples of a loving relationship.
Note: This is yet another reason why we as dominants need to get to know a submissive well before committing to a relationship. Explore that past history thoroughly!
quote:
Someone once said that the greatest fear is fear itself..
Hehe... you're as bad as me for famous quotes... I like that about you. [;)] Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the man who said it. The only thing we have to fear... is fear itself. He very effectively used that dramatic pause.
Like you I'm a proponent of facing fears and dealing with them. If you allow a fear to remain then you have given up control over part of your life. I cannot accept that as being an effective means of "dealing" with fear... its avoidance.
In talking about fear I was reminded of something else, Adler's theory of Will to Dominance. Bear with me, this will make sense eventually.
Adler posited that all human beings possess a Will to Dominance, a desire to rise from below to above, a desire to gain control and there by security, safety, etc. Everyone possesses this will in some form, not just dominants, but vanillas, switches and yes even submissives. That may seem contradictory... how can a submissive have a Will to Dominance? To understand that you have to keep in mind that will to dominance is ultimately about feeling in control, feeling safe, feeling secure... but there are many ways to obtain that. What a dominant does is classic aggressive or active control, but there are also passive forms and these are more commonly seen in submissives. Actually, something kyakitten said gives us a glimpse at one form.
quote:
ORIGINAL: kyakitten
I have discovered that for me, BDSM began as a way of substituting fears - instead of thinking about big vague fears such as you mention, I would focus on my fear of seeing a still-new Dom the following weekend or on a specific planned activity - succinct events I could fear and yet reassure myself that all was under control, either mine or someone I trusted's.
What is happening here is a substitution of one fear that cannot be controlled (or is perceived as being beyond control), for one that can be (personal perspective is everything here, objective values will often not apply). Thus it is actually a way of gaining control, a form of Will to Dominance. We can see this happening in defering control to a trusted dominant... the submissive is not directly in control but feels the situation is controlled by someone they trust... thus form of control over the situation has been achieved, even if only by proxy.
Note that not all submissives will take this passive or indirect route. There are some who choose to be submissives or slaves that actually have very dominant personalities, their motives are very different and probably pleasure motivated than done as a means to achieve a form of passive dominance. But I do find that a majority of submissives and slaves do evidence the passive form of Will to Dominance.
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