RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility

RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 7:49:55 AM)
So would you say that Black families are more likely to not be stable? Why? Why not? Does the paternal figure of that family have anything to do with it? the topic is Black Men Must Take Responsibility. I agree that Men need to take more responsibility. I take that further and say everyone needs to take more responsibility. Do you believe that if Black Men took more responsibility, that their families would be more stable? If the subject is too "sensitive" or seem to racist, then just change the question and omit the word Black. As a single father, raising two kids, coming from a very low income background, having dealt with drugs and alcohol, having faced some challenges and colorful times myself, I can understand but not excuse. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: How about if they walked a few miles? Your telepathy is not working. So with your all powerful knowledge, tell me why some black men are successful Fathers, and successfully educated, and successfully economically and others are not? I have lived a rather colorful life, one that I have not spoken about extensively on cm..,. what made me better my life as an orphan, a single mom that split up with a junkie, what made me successful? I came from a loving stable home, otherwise I would probably have failed, and almost gave up on improving myself because of the challenges I have had... and if you came from a stable loving home, you have an advantage even when hit with adversity. You have a road map for how to keep on keeping on. Those who escape generational poverty and go on to be successful have my deepest respect for their fortitude... but the reason such individuals are celebrated is because they are the exception and not the rule.

juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 8:18:44 AM)
quote: If the subject is too "sensitive" or seem to racist, then just change the question and omit the word Black. As an anthropologist, I have studied many forms of familial structure. They all can produce individuals that are successful according to their own cultural standard. What that means is that in some cultures the father's role is downplayed and the results of this do not limit the child. In our culture, economically speaking, the "nuclear family" has in the past produced more successful people. That model is changing, but change is slow. When one combines low income, with educational disadvantages, with home instability... this makes it harder for individuals to be successful I am a single mom, my son barely knows his father, and he is not on drugs, he is not a criminal, and he is a very good person... smart as a whip. He is almost 18, so I have every expectation he will never be on drugs or go to prison... what is the difference? I have had access to advantages that people living in the inner city, without opportunities, do not have... it is an uneven playing field. I think all the people that love a child are important,.... grandparents are crucial too, yet most people do not involve the grandparents as much as my son's has been involved. My point it is a lot of people loving a kid and the ability to provide a STABLE home that makes a difference.. it is really hard to be stable when you are dirt poor.

Politesub53 -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 9:52:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress *Politesub53, I don’t mean to sound rude, I really don’t, but every time I saw you post on this thread I wanted to say something, but did not, but now I can not hold it in any longer.* You are a str8 white male, what do you know about being discriminated against? Don’t get Me wrong, I don’t doubt you have had one or two times in your life where you may have felt something, but until you experience someone elses life, you can not call on it. Do you know what it feels like to get pulled over everytime you go out? For no reason other than your skin color? Do you know what its like to get searched at the border, everytime you go to see your family on the other side, bc your are dark? Do you know what its like to live in a Ghetto? Where nobody seems to care, but its more like they have given up hope. Do you know what its like to not be able to trace your family tree, for the sole reason that your family was broken up and sold off by slave traders? Or should the blacks that are ancestors of slaves just get over it? After all, they were freed really only about 140 years ago, after 250 years of forced slavery, and murder and rape and whatever other things happened. Then they were kept in debt by the same people that owned them, working like dogs just to survive, trying to pay off a debt that was set up against them so it would never happen. And really they were not all freed until after the second world war, so that is more like 60 years ago, but oh yes, they still were not allowed to sit in certain places, or get a proper education, or any other basic human right,. And that was fixed how long ago? How hard was it, not long ago, and even in some places still, for a black male from that background to get a good job? One that can support a family. Anyway, this post really has nothing to do with the main topic, as I already stated My views on that. I just find it very offensive when ppl don’t think. Just like when white people slam rappers and shit, “oh all they talk about is ghetto and drive bys” CUZ THAT IS WHAT THEY LIVE, that is what they know. They know you don’t even have to do anything to end up in prison, if your skin tone is right and they need someone to pin it on, if you are poor and can not afford proper legal help. You really need to read my posts on here. I didnt mention race, i pointed out the sentance was the same for carrying crack no matter what race you are. How hard is that to understand ? Now as for if i have experienced it, well i have, it works in reverse. It also works if you are white and with black friends. I was raised in what you would call a ghetto but here its called slums. So i know probably as much as you do. You dont have to be black to see discrimination taking place aginst friends, as you probably know. You see, You are not the only one to witness such things when You have been with friends. So next time dont assume things about me, PM and ask.

kdsub -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 10:14:14 AM)
As I have been reading the posts in this thread I see excuses and more excuses… and ridiculous generalities. “Oh…. if you have not walked in the shoes of a poor black man deep in the ghetto you have no right to comment…I know better than you because I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks so only I can understand the problems of black America.” Damn If I was black man that type of dripple would insult me. You mean to say that everywhere there is a majority of African Americans there is a ghetto…bull… if that’s the case I can comment because there is a majority in my area. And my area is no ghetto…just home and a good one. Most black families are working hard to better their lives and the lives of their children. They don’t want or need excuses to do this. There are problems and only at the individual level can they be solved. Making excuses will not keep young black men out of jail… Only they can do it and that is the point of some of the posts. I don’t believe there is any physical or culture reason that black people can’t live the American dream…many are doing just that now. So stop making excuses...where there is a problem address it. Not with self pity or condescending dribble but with the power of the law and what is right. Butch

caitlyn -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 10:53:37 AM)
General ... Go back a hundred and fifty years and and you can replace "black" in this argument with "Irish." Troubled societal groups don't make this trouble on their own ... society makes it for them. The lot of the poor in this very wealthy nation, is a national embarrassment. The lot of homeless children, borders on Satanic evil. The only way to ameliorate this problem, is for everyone to take responsibility, and stop pointing fingers.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 11:36:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania As an anthropologist, I have studied many forms of familial structure. They all can produce individuals that are successful according to their own cultural standard. What that means is that in some cultures the father's role is downplayed and the results of this do not limit the child. In our culture, economically speaking, the "nuclear family" has in the past produced more successful people. That model is changing, but change is slow. When one combines low income, with educational disadvantages, with home instability... this makes it harder for individuals to be successful I am a single mom, my son barely knows his father, and he is not on drugs, he is not a criminal, and he is a very good person... smart as a whip. He is almost 18, so I have every expectation he will never be on drugs or go to prison... what is the difference? I have had access to advantages that people living in the inner city, without opportunities, do not have... it is an uneven playing field. I think all the people that love a child are important,.... grandparents are crucial too, yet most people do not involve the grandparents as much as my son's has been involved. My point it is a lot of people loving a kid and the ability to provide a STABLE home that makes a difference.. it is really hard to be stable when you are dirt poor. highlighted to show how insulting those statements were to me and to wonder how you could make such a blanket generalization. so are you saying since i live in Chicago (probably think i live in the ghetto too) and am a black single mother, i don't have access to the same advantages and opportunities as you do? WOW - you are so sadly mistaken with that assumption. i have access to the same advantages and perhaps even more because of i'm minority, mother of 2 (with 1 who is handicapped), and live in a low income neighborhood. just how do you personally know that if a person is dirt poor they cannot provide a stable home? i'm not dirt poor however my income does qualify me as "working poor" and i must say i'm providing a stable, happy home sans the grandparents involvement or help. yes, they are in my UMs lives however they do not play an important role in their upbringing. that's my responsiblity ...not theirs.

ModeratorEleven -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 11:52:34 AM)
Folks, please leave children out of this. Thank you. XI

juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 12:34:39 PM)
You often find cause to be offended for no reason... being poor is not a race thing, honey. Edited to add, I have been a poor single mother at least as long as you and had to struggle along, so if you think you have the cornerstone on adversity.. you just don't

laurell3 -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 4:15:16 PM)
How julia's thought that you cannot lump people of one race into a statistic without considering the effect racism and poverty has on their lives is offensive to you is beyond me. If it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't, it's really that simple.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 5:39:28 PM)
perhaps you should read the highlighted generalized statements made by her ...and i quote - I have had access to advantages that people living in the inner city, without opportunities, do not have... it is an uneven playing field. in which she insinuates that she had access to advantages that none of us living in the inner city don't have without oppotunities like her. also My point it is a lot of people loving a kid and the ability to provide a STABLE home that makes a difference.. it is really hard to be stable when you are dirt poor. - HOW does SHE REALLY know that when you are dirt poor a person cannot provide a stable home? has she been homeless with kids on the street to come up with that assumption? if not, she should ask how i did it when i was homeless with kids ...keeping them stable and happy in a shelter. so yes, i do find fault and reason to feel insulted by her assumptions.

laurell3 -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 5:50:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl perhaps you should read the highlighted generalized statements made by her ...and i quote - I have had access to advantages that people living in the inner city, without opportunities, do not have... it is an uneven playing field. in which she insinuates that she had access to advantages that none of us living in the inner city don't have without oppotunities like her. also My point it is a lot of people loving a kid and the ability to provide a STABLE home that makes a difference.. it is really hard to be stable when you are dirt poor. - HOW does SHE REALLY know that when you are dirt poor a person cannot provide a stable home? has she been homeless with kids on the street to come up with that assumption? if not, she should ask how i did it when i was homeless with kids ...keeping them stable and happy in a shelter. so yes, i do find fault and reason to feel insulted by her assumptions. I would point out to the obvious fact that she never said all or in any way it implied to you, but I have a good feeling you won't listen. It's great that you were able to hold your family together despite being homeless and I mean this quite sincerely. That's not true for many people. To say this is an issue and it's very hard on people and families isn't to say those people are bad. To say we have to take into account the circumstances, including poverty and the uneven playing field when we criticise people based on statistics is really saying the same thing you are. People shouldn't judge by numbers or race. This is my point. What you see her saying as offensive isn't really different from what you are saying. She is actually repeatedly saying in this thread toting statitics without looking at the actual families and people isn't helpful. I am too. Statitics don't make a difference, people do. Numbers don't help families, looking at THEIR real issues and addressing them can.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 9:09:07 PM)
You avoided the questions. You claim to be an anthropologist, then follow up with personal experience and opinion. Not very academic and objective of you, as an anthropoligist. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: If the subject is too "sensitive" or seem to racist, then just change the question and omit the word Black. As an anthropologist, I have studied many forms of familial structure. They all can produce individuals that are successful according to their own cultural standard. What that means is that in some cultures the father's role is downplayed and the results of this do not limit the child. In our culture, economically speaking, the "nuclear family" has in the past produced more successful people. That model is changing, but change is slow. When one combines low income, with educational disadvantages, with home instability... this makes it harder for individuals to be successful I am a single mom, my son barely knows his father, and he is not on drugs, he is not a criminal, and he is a very good person... smart as a whip. He is almost 18, so I have every expectation he will never be on drugs or go to prison... what is the difference? I have had access to advantages that people living in the inner city, without opportunities, do not have... it is an uneven playing field. I think all the people that love a child are important,.... grandparents are crucial too, yet most people do not involve the grandparents as much as my son's has been involved. My point it is a lot of people loving a kid and the ability to provide a STABLE home that makes a difference.. it is really hard to be stable when you are dirt poor.

juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 10:18:16 PM)
You know, I do not care if you believe me or not.... I live in the real world, and proving myself to random strangers on message boards is not what my real life is about... I know very well who I am and where I am going..... But if you wish to "verify" you can always email my Daddy and ask him where we are going on Monday... that is if you care enough to check my "story" out, or not, I do not give a rat's ass one way or another...

thompsonx -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 11:26:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Its got nothing to do with colour. Crack is seen as more addictive so it carries a heavier penalty. If you are charged with carrying crack, you face the same possible sentances. Politesub: We have already had the discussion about cocaine being NOT ADDICTIVE in the physiological sense. If you choose to follow the PSYCHOLOGICAL ADDICTION of cocaine then that is a road you choose to walk with the "just say no" crowd. The pharmacopeia is quite clear on this matter. A pound of powder cocaine is the same as a pound of crack is the same as a pound of free base. The only difference is that it has a lower vaporization point which allows it to be smoked more efficiently. thompson

thompsonx -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/13/2007 11:41:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Not very far across though, from the understanding you are displaying here. Let me put this into very simple terms, freebasing is incredibly fucking expensive, crack is dirt cheap. Manufacturing crack and converting good coke into smokeable forms are very different things. It isn't purity that causes the different levels of impact, but how the drug is delivered to the brain. The same is true of opiates and amphetamines as well. With crystal meth or heroin, for example, the manner of ingestion is entirely up to the user. Snort it, shoot it, smoke it, wrap it in a Kleenex corner and take it like a pill, addicts choice. Cocaine can't be smoked as a powder. There is more than one way to convert it. What you may have seen a chemist type spend a lot of money doing, is not where crack comes from. Rich: Perhaps you might tell us just how free base and crack differ? thompson

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/14/2007 11:49:56 AM)
Ah we finally agree on something. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not give a rat's ass one way or another...

Politesub53 -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/14/2007 4:07:15 PM)
Thompson thank you for pointing out that we disagree on the subject and will continue to do so, as is our right.

juliaoceania -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/15/2007 4:04:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Ah we finally agree on something. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not give a rat's ass one way or another... I find it quite amusing how people on CM accuse others of lying or question who they say that they are to make a point on a thread when they obviously do not know their ass from a hole in the ground... somehow these sorts think that attacking someone on a personal note will somehow lend veracity to their position.. frankly I find this sort of diversion pathetic

Sinergy -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/15/2007 5:24:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What came first? Socio economic problems and discrimination, or fathers leaving their kids? With nothing left to do while fighting the breakdown in civil and social structure in Europe in 1095, the rise of nation states, widespread disease, famine, and the downfall of feudalism, thousands of fathers girded their swords and headed for the Holy Land to slaughter the infidel. Socio-economic problems came first. Sinergy p.s. despite the insistence by most of Christianity that some blond haired, blue eyed caucasian male was Christ, odds are fairly good that he was, if not African and Negro, that he was middle eastern in terms of race. So once again it was Whitey inflicting the problems of his society by invading the cradle of civilization in order to put down the black man. p.p.s. Strumpet reminds me that most racial issues started in the early 17th century, and insists that the Saracen hordes' reasons for invading Europe in 718 and colonizing Spain and Italy were not racially motivated.

TheHeretic -> RE: Black Men Must Take Responsibility (12/15/2007 5:55:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy p.p.s. Strumpet reminds me that most racial issues started in the early 17th century, and insists that the Saracen hordes' reasons for invading Europe in 718 and colonizing Spain and Italy were not racially motivated. I'd be inclined to date it more around the extermination of the Neanderthals, but I am not, of course, a highly trained and educated anthropologist. How about the Bantu Expansion, if anybody wants to get picky about Neanderthal v Homo Sapien DNA?

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875