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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:21:14 AM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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      Yes, I read the whole thing (how do you suppose I came across the quoted portion?).

      I'm sympathetic to the sort of treatment she describes in the custody of LE. That doesn't sound excuseable, or defensible.

      If her idea of "helping" though, is reflected in the entitlement mentality and arrogance of the OP, I have news for you. We have plenty of that in the US already. My take is that she defines "theatre" as self-absorbed, drama, played out in the public view.

      Theater workshops to end poverty and addiction??? What a wonderful idea. There certainly aren't any poor actors, are there?

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Post #: 21

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:31:21 AM

RCdc

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Your statement however on her being a drama queen was way off - she made an either or statement on the realities of what such a situation puts you in. I find it surprising you didn't actually get that and instead misrepresent her words. You can respond to me if you like, or not - either way, I'm not going to bother responding to you again on this thread unless you say something of merit.

Im not going to get into a debate with you Rich and deny Stellas thread by hijacking it. Start one on the merits of theatrical intervention and artistic involvements of charitable organisations if you like and I will participate.

I apologise to Stella for my outburst on her thread.

the.dark.

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Post #: 22

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:32:19 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

We don't have our borders guarded by religious fanatics as some would have you believe

The criteria used for the computers to tabulate her "Score" *are* decided by those religious fanatics.

The Customs Agents see that "The Computer" says don't let her in. They don't *have to* know anything more to do their job keeping out the degenerates.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 23

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:39:23 AM

pahunkboy

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Stella- I was outside the US 2x. Canada and Mexico. Both times I had trouble returning. This was in the 80s. It was easy to leave. But stressful and lengthy to return. My experience was not as bad as yours..but it did have me to consider such seriously about travelling outside the US.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 24

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:49:12 AM

Termyn8or

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Heretic, so cuff her and keep her from her meds ? Put her in jail ?

Nobody is that kinky, I think.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 25

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:51:44 AM

TheHeretic

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I'm sorry you feel that way, D&td. I don't think I "misrepresented" anything she said. Perhaps you should re-read the OP, focusing on the aspects of her plan for coming to the United States and what she intends to do here, instead of the bad day at the airport. Ethos and Logos, instead of nothing but Pathos.

I think I'm done here as well. Perhaps we can discuss the entitlement mentality on another thread sometime.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 26

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:54:07 AM

TheHeretic

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Read what I wrote, Termy. There is no excuse for the treatment she described, and I said so.

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Post #: 27

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 8:57:13 AM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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She planned on visiting Family, and doing some research for a project which would require a subsequent Visa application?

You mean that plan? Or what she what *thinking about doing* which was eventually, after obtaining a Visa, returning to try to help people?

*thinking about doing* things isn't a crime. Not in any Free Country.

By that definition, the US isn't a Free Country, but I've been saying that all along.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 28

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 9:06:08 AM

angelikaJ

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I am outraged that this happened.

btw: we all pay for the salaries of those employed by 'Homeland Security'.
...that I paid for this to happen is unacceptable to me...and I am going to rattle cages and bang on doors.

Oh, and TH:
There are many easily found documented sources regarding how involvement in "the arts" can promote positive personal change...better living, whether it is through singing, painting, writing, acting...I am all for that.

jenn

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 29

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 10:44:15 AM

Alumbrado

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Outrageous. I wish I could say I cannot believe that these things still happen, but I know that they do.
I'm sorry you had to go through this.

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 30

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 11:04:11 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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In todays polital climate- I dont think much would be made of this fight. We are more interested in Britanies hair and car accidents....

Cut your losses. The whole point of being on defense is to not be on offense.

I would ask for a re-issue of the passport. I would look into a refund on the plane ticket. As far as changing "empire" that fight wont get far today. Folks are held out of public spaces for t-shirts. If you disagree with the adminstration you are expendable.

I think that what happened was 2 fold.

1. Stella- would draw attention to Katrina.
2. Stella is viewed as a non-human [by the powers that be]

Living well is the best revenge. I encourage you to work on your plays. I for one would go to one - as I am convinced it would be a quality piece.

I am sorry. Hugs.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 31

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 11:18:45 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

The officer announced that he was refusing entry to the States because he had spoken to my Significant Other (Halley) and she had said that I had come to the States to work and to 'sell plays'. I managed to contact my SO by phone, she had not spoken to any official as she was waiting for me at Gulfport/Biloxi airport, the official had asked her my plans and she had told him that I was spending Christmas with them in Mississippi. I have a two paged statement which wasn't what I had said and this two paged statement is from a pile of other papers which the US Border and Homeland Security have as justification for refusing my entry into the US - 17 paragraphs of lies and half-baked assumptions which clearly implies that I was born male and been issued with two UK passports.

Did you speak with an immigration attorney before making plans to come to the USA with the ultimate goal of staying here permanently?

First, let me state that I in no way support anything that happened to you. In my opinion, though, the above is where you run into trouble. Whether you were black, hispanic, transgendered, or *anything* the border people had a prejudice with and wanted to give you shit for, the loophole they have to get "excuses" for the way they treated with you is the issue of whether or not you intended to stay and earn income. This pisses them off, and then they have their own issues with your sexuality, and it's then time for them to go to town making your life hell.

US Immigration is not something to dick around with. I am not sure if legally they have some grounds with your passport saying F when you have a penis (or whatever they were making a fuss over), but they do have the right to refuse you entry if they feel you are coming here to work. Even if it's an *inkling*. I heard this story loud and clear when my Canadian husband was visiting here on a tourist visa and simply wanted to go home to say goodbye to his family and pick up a few things. I was told by our attorney this could easily result in him being denied entry and not let back in, just because it would appear fishy that he left and returned (forget about bringing any belongings, that would be out of the question). He ended up staying here instead of going home, because the risk was too large. We got married instead while he was on the tourist visa.

Somewhere the immigration people got wind that you *might* be looking for some sort of employment here. You should have buried that story deep down and said you were coming over to shop for a week. I don't know if they could have denied you entry based on the gender thing, but wherever they got the story that your ultimate goal was to stay (and your friend posted that even on these boards when you were detained) - that's illegal. You can't come here with the intent to work unless you have the proper visa. I got read this riot act by my attorney also.

It's sick and unfair. But the lesson to be learned for all people reading this is that you can't just come into the country and expect to stay here, unless you have a bullet proof plan that won't get you caught. Or, get the proper visa. Always check with an immigration attorney. Did you look into the laws surrounding your possible immigration here, or were you planning to do it later?

If they thought you looked fishy by your gender issues and decided to search your bags and saw any indication that you were planning to stick around (mememtoes, small personal items, more clothing than your stay should require) that's when they will grill you. The fact that you are transgendered just gives them an "excuse" to take out their fear and anger on you.

Please keep us posted.

Akasha

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Post #: 32

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 11:36:29 AM

velvetears

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Stella i am so sorry you had this awful experience and that your people waiting for you, especially the 5 yr old was disappointed. i hope you fight it and win. i will offer an alternative suggestion for you if you return to the states - instead of trying to enter through an airport in the bible belt why not come through JFK or La Guardia here in NY, or even Newark in NJ - i doubt they would bat an eye at you and you would be on your way, from Penn Station by train down to your destination. Just an idea. No insult to anyone who lives in the bible belt, but they are less inclined to be tolerant.

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Post #: 33

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 11:46:19 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Yes, I read the whole thing (how do you suppose I came across the quoted portion?).

     I'm sympathetic to the sort of treatment she describes in the custody of LE. That doesn't sound excuseable, or defensible.

     If her idea of "helping" though, is reflected in the entitlement mentality and arrogance of the OP, I have news for you. We have plenty of that in the US already. My take is that she defines "theatre" as self-absorbed, drama, played out in the public view.

     Theater workshops to end poverty and addiction??? What a wonderful idea. There certainly aren't any poor actors, are there?

Rich the type of workshops Stella speaks of are called community theatre. Quite different to community theatre as its known in the US. Which is more akin to amature dramatics. Community theatre here is exactly that, directed at specific groups such as drug users or the homeless about every life as it pertains to them, and its aimed at more of a teaching role than anything.

I really didnt see anything in the OP stating Stella intended to live on welfare. Even the paragraph you first quoted stated either/or. " either i can live on benefits ect/or i can fight"
All of this overlooks one major point, UK citizens travelling to the US dont need a visa, as the US recognise a UK passport as valid.

I understand that there is a high state of alert at all entry Ports and Airports, but as i said on the other thread, this was just predujice, nothing more nothing less.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 34

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 1:58:55 PM

camille65

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From: Austin Texas
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Thank you for explaining the difference between the community theaters Politesub, it was something I didn't know before.

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Post #: 35

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 2:29:00 PM

Politesub53

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Your welcome Camille, sometimes the subtle language differences between the US and the UK do cause a few problems on the boards.

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Post #: 36

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 2:29:52 PM

luckydog1

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I would be curious to hear the other side of the story. It sounds suspiscious that you had no access to water or bathroom, but got to call your SO. I have to be honest, I have heard the I was completely polite and well behaved story and then seen the tapes to many times to not want to hear the rest of the story. You being transgendered, does not excuse bad behaivor. If your Meds were denied, you deserve a large settlement. What sort of Meds anyway, hormones? Is it possible you were having ahormonal reaction to the stress of a trans continental flight? A biometric passport means nothing unless you have a biometric reader to scan the person in front of you, read the information encoded in the passport to compare, and crosscheck with the home office that it is correct. Do they have those in Atlanta hooked up to london? I kind of doubt it. I am not a jump to conclusion kind of guy.

There is so much here that you haven't really covered. It is not outlandish that your SO has a cell phone or that she asked about you at the airport, and spoke to officials. So saying she was at the airport, therefore she could not have spoken to an official doesn't make any sense. I can make not statements about her, but it is not unheard of to say the truth under stress. Illegal workers are a political issue right now.

You do say this is a new life for you and are radically changing. How long have you been a part of the 5 year olds life? Why do you have contact with a internets BDSM lovers child in Mississippi at all? Again I don't have all the facts, but something smells here. This whole thing sounds contrived to me, and simply publicity. Are you dragging a 5 year old into a publicity stunt? This will absolutly get you publicity and a lot of supporters (I am sure the Nation will do a story on your "theater program", along with the "ususal suspects". Just a week or so ago on these threads we discussed an ACLU employee, who was very familiar with the rules for questioning, intentionally violate several in order to sue. Chomsky intentioanlly publishes books in Cuba so the USA will deny import. Anyone with commonsense can see how this works, and you seem like a pretty bright person. Make a living off Government grants pretending you are being oppressed, it's an old play, every American city already has this. There is a whole freaking industry built around professional protest. But leave the kid out of it ok. Show you care about the kid and do every thing you can to shield her from it. Don't use her as the conclusion and last word of your argument. That is exploitive.

I find your statements about the Atlanta detention center to not quite add up. And you don't seem to understand why everyone is so polite. You say you were with the murderers, general criminals. They are in pre arraignment, and everything is very important. Any sort of infraction will result in extra charges, or be the difference between walking out that afternoon.

The whole thing sounds very Drama Queenish and intentional. Leave the 5 year old kid out of it though. If your SO said you were coming to try to sell plays, you got properly denied entry. American transgendered rabble rousers need those jobs.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 37

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 2:44:07 PM

seeksfemslave

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luckydog: he he he he he he he

I realised sometime ago that because many members of CM see themselves as not, shall we say conventional in their life styles and attitudes, their critical faculties, assuming they had any in the first place, have just flown out of the window.
They simply believe anything that appears to show conventional society in a bad light.
I still love CM "off topic" tho'.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/15/2007 2:49:58 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 2:47:59 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I find your statements about the Atlanta detention center to not quite add up. And you don't seem to understand why everyone is so polite. You say you were with the murderers, general criminals. They are in pre arraignment, and everything is very important. Any sort of infraction will result in extra charges, or be the difference between walking out that afternoon.

If your SO said you were coming to try to sell plays, you got properly denied entry. American transgendered rabble rousers need those jobs.

Does anyone actually understand what people write as well as allegedly reading it? Or is everyones reading comprehension that different - in which case, why are we even participating in forums at all because no one understands anyone? I keep reading posts after posts(not just this thread) and keep thinking exactly the same thing.

Stellas words did add up - she compared the difference between those who were alleged officals (rude) and those who were apparently supposed to be the fellons (polite and welcoming) - that's where the confusion lies. America, the supposed land of the free, whos officials were rude and obnoxious, but whos 'bad guys' were polite and welcoming to a english stranger, the 'average' peoples were wonderfully polite. But those in some sort of offical capacity - well I can't even fathom how they treated her.

And although I am not commenting on the minor as it is against TOS of CM... I will state that stella mentioned her in short, twice, in her entire post. Unlike your 4 or so times making up a whole paragraph in a much shorter discourse.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 12/15/2007 2:49:27 PM >

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 39

RE: My two impressions of America - 12/15/2007 3:09:41 PM

luckydog1

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It does seem the OP is comparing the behavior of people in a holding cell (hardly a place to observe normal behaivor) to people we only know part of the story about. Not much to go on. Adn not much of a basis to make a point. And a lot of it sounds contrived to me. And it seems to be rather expoitive of a 5 year old to be used as the goal and conclusion of the OP, which is admittedly part of a larger life changing goal plan. I don't like the way this smells.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 40

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