RE: My two impressions of America (Full Version)

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LadyDemonikaTS -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:13:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
I have spent 48 hours in the United States - physically, but not legally, as I was not allowed to cross the border and enter the United States. I have two completely different impressions of America based on my experiences, both of which contrast with each other radically, even oppose each other. My first is at the hands of US Department of Border and Homeland Security with whom I spent time at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport. My second impression came from the Atlanta City Detention Center where I was held overnight.

Was my being a TS female a problem for the inmates of the prison? No, it wasn't. I was received at the same time as an armed robber.. and sitting among the prisoners they made me feel very welcome, they were polite and respectful, and understanding. It would have been nice to experience more of this welcome from the American people, but sadly it was not to be. I was taken by the respect people have for each other, the 'Yes Sir' and "Yes Ma'am' used as a common form of address between people, how you can sit among people, black, white, male, female, straight, gay, and nobody's really bothered. I was in the male section, and when I explained who I was and why I was there to the prison staff they changed their attitude and became much more friendly and understanding.

My being a TS female was a major issue with the immigration officials, right from the start. I was questioned intensively, I answered all questions openly and honestly, I showed my documents, I gave information, I let them search me, search my luggage. I was accused of trying to enter the US illegally on a fake passport, despite showing five other forms of ID with the same identity. I was mocked, laughed at, called a liar.. accused of fraud and threatened with immediate deportation. At one point I had six officials surrounding me demanding to know whether I had a penis or not. I was told 'In the US you're male, get over it' and 'You ain't got no rights here'.


I'm from Canada, and I got pretty much the exact same treatment when I landed on August 31st at Gatwick in the UK.  Being TS, but haven't been able to afford name change ($300-$600 in Quebec!!!!), I looked female but the passport had that icky male name.

Questioned intensely, etc, just like you were.  Thank the spirits my sub/lover couldn't make it to the airport to meet me (sick) because she'd have waited hours there for nada (a 15 quid trip each way as well for train).

Shoved into Colnbrook detention center (at Heathrow).  Thankfully, the staff involved were *majorly* understanding and aware of the TS issue.  Made sure that I was addressed as such, treated as such, and when put into detention put in a separate cell and given "walk time" alone and away from the population.

It happens everywhere.  Except here in Canada it seems... my sub/lover has been able to come over twice now and not a major prob (second time was questioned a bit more but sent through).  But I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen in Canada too.

Did I let the experience at Gatwick and Colnbrook affect my impression of the UK?  No not one iota.  I knew and know still enough on the UK that I knew that risk was there (primarily because of *being TS*).  Am I afraid to go back there?  Not really, just cautious (I'll cross uber casual with very unisex look).






Politesub53 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:18:53 PM)

LadyDemonika, i am really sorry that that happened here in the UK. The difference is that Stella has had her passport officially changed. I think if your passport was female you would have been fine. At least i hope so.




LadyDemonikaTS -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:29:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

LadyDemonika, i am really sorry that that happened here in the UK. The difference is that Stella has had her passport officially changed. I think if your passport was female you would have been fine. At least i hope so.


Perhaps, but with my height I do stand out so I don't fool myself about "being made".  I am in the process of getting the "M" on the PP to "F", it's just really a matter of getting my medical records for my new doc re: the gender clinics etc and it perhaps can be done easily enough.  (checking into it).

And even with the difference, it's so wrong that border/immigration officials use how a person looks as an excuse to pull them aside and such (even when coming back the Customs Canada official I hit at the desk flagged me to have my bags searched - but when I showed the guys that were supposed to search it the papers that the UK Home Office gave me they said "you've gone through enough, go home and have a good day").

Border officials will flag you to be questioned it seems if you look like anything other than a straight white christian who is well groomed.  I've had friends of colour and different religious backgrounds as well as those who just look "out of the norm" get hauled aside.

And they say they don't use such "profiling" etc.  Yeah...





angelikaJ -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:44:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

It does seem the OP is comparing the behavior of people in a holding cell (hardly a place to observe normal behaivor) to people we only know part of the story about.  Not much to go on.  Adn not much of a basis to make a point.  And a lot of it sounds contrived to me.  And it seems to be rather expoitive of a 5 year old to be used as the goal and conclusion of the OP, which is admittedly part of a larger life changing goal plan.  I don't like the way this smells.


If you don't like the way it smells then stop sniffing.

There are always multiple sides to every story...that makes Stella's perception of events no more or less true.
Since you have less first hand information than she does, for now, until there is more information made available from other sources... i think I will go with her version...sometimes people can just be so narrow and mean...I don't know why you are feeling that way towards someone you don't even know... in this case does it harm you to give her the benefit of the doubt?

*editted for spelling error




Politesub53 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:44:59 PM)

Well please dont let it put You off trying to come back over here.




chellekitty -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:49:10 PM)

Stella....i can't express how horrified i am at the actions of the American government, but if you can keep us (or just me, if certain people around here are so offended by it) on what you are doing, i would appreciate it....i know of people in various communities who have big voices that would want to know about your experience......

chelle




camille65 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:50:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

Stella....i can't express how horrified i am at the actions of the American government, but if you can keep us (or just me, if certain people around here are so offended by it) on what you are doing, i would appreciate it....i know of people in various communities who have big voices that would want to know about your experience......

chelle

 Stella there are a lot of people here who support you.




LadyDemonikaTS -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:51:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well please dont let it put You off trying to come back over here.


It hasn't at all.  Kitten is planning on coming back here for good end of January, and I do look forward to at least going over for a visit (I have a lot of friends in the UK and I have always been interested in it since I was a kid).  And if she doesn't come, I'll be heading over (and doing the immigration right proper...)

Even the guards (at Gatwick and at Colnbrook) confided that they felt it was wrong (especially since I am also a veteran of a Commonwealth country's armed forces and on a pension!).




LadyDemonikaTS -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:53:34 PM)

Stella, I hope that this incident doesn't put you off of the US or North America as a whole.  The UK will likely fix your PP, and there are ways of making sure that you don't get flagged sort of thing.  It's not the people, it's just the paranoid system in the west nowadays...




laurell3 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:53:48 PM)

Stella I'm very sorry this happened to you, but I'm glad you are safe and not totally deflated by the incident.  I'm sorry you'll be spending the holidays away from the people you consider family.  I hope you are able to bring these type of issues to light.  Although I do believe that 911 brought to light that we need to be a little more careful, this response is clearly over the top and not what I would desire as an American to be how others view our country.

Again, my thoughts are with you and I am sorry you were treated that way.
l




TheHeretic -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 3:54:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

If your Meds were denied, you deserve a large settlement. 



      Now don't go getting her hopes up that there is a winning lottery ticket in this mess as well.  Taking away any sort of drugs is standard procedure, and it happens to every person with a prescription.  You don't get it until THEIR doctor says you need it.  Diabetics will often get fast-tracked past a physician, but many who don't wind up in the hospital before getting the insulin.  Probably the most affected are those on medications for mental health conditions. 





      I've read through the OP again, and I'm curious about the handcuffs thing.  None that would fit???  Are your wrists really that large?  If so, didn't it occur to you that being unable to 'pass' (not intended as a slur or slam,but the wrists and hands are the usual giveaways) might present difficulties with a passport that says "f?"  On the other hand, if you meant that your wrists wouldn't come close enough together, then you should know they simply link as many pair as required to do the job, and I'm questioning the validity of your account.

       The restroom thing strikes me odd as well.  Did you perhaps refuse an offered toilet early in the process?   And if there was an individual disruption of the routine over getting you a facility, that would certainly account for them not giving you much water, wouldn't it?




kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:09:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 
America, the supposed land of the free, whos officials were rude and obnoxious, but whos 'bad guys' were polite and welcoming to a english stranger, the 'average' peoples were wonderfully polite.  But those in some sort of offical capacity - well I can't even fathom how they treated her.
 



So according to you armed robbers and felons are the average citizen in America. They are the scum of the earth...and I will tell you this as fact. If stella had been incarcerated ...as a TS.. she would quickly change her evaluation of the ...in your words...average nice polite felons.




Aneirin -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:10:06 PM)

Toilet facilities and a right to drink water are basic human rights.If it were you who asked if you wanted to use the loo and you replied no, because you did not need to use the loo, would that bar you from using the loo later if you needed it ?Same applies for drinking water.

Maybe as you suggest there might have been a disagreement, That disagreement might have been the use of male toilet facilities, which I would understand as a further insult.For someone who is distraught and possibly scared, I can see why a further insult would have been a reason for a confrontation.




RCdc -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:14:23 PM)

Hello Lady Demonika
 
I wished to echo politeone, and do hope it hasn;t put you off visiting and I am very sorry you went through similar here.
 
the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:20:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 
America, the supposed land of the free, whos officials were rude and obnoxious, but whos 'bad guys' were polite and welcoming to a english stranger, the 'average' peoples were wonderfully polite.  But those in some sort of offical capacity - well I can't even fathom how they treated her.
 



So according to you armed robbers and felons are the average citizen in America. They are the scum of the earth...and I will tell you this as fact. If stella had been incarcerated ...as a TS.. she would quickly change her evaluation of the ...in your words...average nice polite felons.


/sighs
I am feeling less than amicable tonight so if this sound harsh, ah well.
 
If people actually READ what is WRITTEN and then UNDERSTAND IT then perhaps they might actually KNOW WHAT WAS SAID.
For those of a lesser reading ability - who don't wish to read and comprehend thoroughly, stella mentioned fellons and those working in the prison sector.
I wrote about the fellons, and 'average' people... echoing her words.(Hence the comma - seperating the two?)
And that it was the officals/immigration that were the assholes.
Geeze what does it take for people to really read what is written?
 
the.dark.
(.yourapologyisacceptedinadvance.)




chellekitty -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:26:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
 Stella there are a lot of people here who support you.


i was not saying that there are not people who do....but i know it gets tiring when you post your story and the few ruin it with their bullshit...sorry if it was taken otherwise...

camille...you seem to have a personal vendetta against me...stop reading more into what i write than what is there....




kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
 
America, the supposed land of the free, whos officials were rude and obnoxious, but whos 'bad guys' were polite and welcoming to a english stranger, the 'average' peoples were wonderfully polite.  But those in some sort of offical capacity - well I can't even fathom how they treated her.
 



So according to you armed robbers and felons are the average citizen in America. They are the scum of the earth...and I will tell you this as fact. If stella had been incarcerated ...as a TS.. she would quickly change her evaluation of the ...in your words...average nice polite felons.


/sighs
I am feeling less than amicable tonight so if this sound harsh, ah well.
 
If people actually READ what is WRITTEN and then UNDERSTAND IT then perhaps they might actually KNOW WHAT WAS SAID.
For those of a lesser reading ability - who don't wish to read and comprehend thoroughly, stella mentioned fellons and those working in the prison sector.
I wrote about the fellons, and 'average' people... echoing her words.(Hence the comma - seperating the two?)
And that it was the officals/immigration that were the assholes.
Geeze what does it take for people to really read what is written?
 
the.dark.
(.yourapologyisacceptedinadvance.)



Of course I am sure you are correct…but would you be so kind as to point out where in Stella’s post she ever mentioned meeting average people…After all you are echoing her words…please show me… You can evidently read so much better than me.

Butch...with the bad eyes and poor reading abilities.




RCdc -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 4:56:14 PM)

quote:

My second impression came from the Atlanta City Detention Center where I was held overnight.

Was my being a TS female a problem for the inmates of the prison? No, it wasn't. I was received at the same time as an armed robber.. and sitting among the prisoners they made me feel very welcome, they were polite and respectful, and understanding. It would have been nice to experience more of this welcome from the American people, but sadly it was not to be. I was taken by the respect people have for each other, the 'Yes Sir' and "Yes Ma'am' used as a common form of address between people, how you can sit among people, black, white, male, female, straight, gay, and nobody's really bothered. I was in the male section, and when I explained who I was and why I was there to the prison staff they changed their attitude and became much more friendly and understanding.


You are welcome, in advance.
 
the.dark.

(.whotriesveryhardtoneverblameherlessonslearned<mistakes>onherreadingandwritingdisabilityorhersyn.) 




kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 5:22:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

My second impression came from the Atlanta City Detention Center where I was held overnight.


Was my being a TS female a problem for the inmates of the prison? No, it wasn't. I was received at the same time as an armed robber.. and sitting among the prisoners they made me feel very welcome, they were polite and respectful, and understanding. It would have been nice to experience more of this welcome from the American people, but sadly it was not to be. I was taken by the respect people have for each other, the 'Yes Sir' and "Yes Ma'am' used as a common form of address between people, how you can sit among people, black, white, male, female, straight, gay, and nobody's really bothered. I was in the male section, and when I explained who I was and why I was there to the prison staff they changed their attitude and became much more friendly and understanding

You are welcome, in advance.
 
the.dark.

(.whotriesveryhardtoneverblameherlessonslearned<mistakes>onherreadingandwritingdisabilityorhersyn.) 




Your post….” I was received at the same time as an armed robber.. and sitting among the prisoners”…

Hmmm prisoners…not average people.

Your post…” It would have been nice to experience more of this welcome from the American people, but sadly it was not to be.”

Hmmm again she did not meet the average people…she would have liked to but did not meet.

Your post…” I was there to the prison staff they changed their attitude and became much more friendly and understanding

Hmmm again not the average people…

Where is the reference to the average people oh learned one.

Look this is a silly argument… you messed up so what I forgive you…just be careful jumping off the soapbox.

Butch




RCdc -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 5:30:14 PM)

If you find prison officers more average than yourself, then that is your problem with your own self image.
Prison officers are extremely couragous.  But they are still american peoples.
Officals are what let america down, as they do in any country.  Really, your comprehension is very poor.
 
KD, I understand you have a problem with me and have for a long time, but there is no need to take it out on stellas thread, it is incredibly disrespectful to her and the people reading.  Take it to the other side if you wish, but I am not feeding your masochism here.
 
the.dark.




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