RE: My two impressions of America (Full Version)

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dovie -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 5:36:31 PM)

Stella,

I echo the sentiment of the many here on the boards. I’m so sorry you had to go through this. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. America is going through a transition of sorts. The words Military Dictatorship come to mind for the long term. Privacy, Freedom and the like are all illusions. For some it’s easier to live inside of the illusionary bubble…..until the knock on the door.

Disclaimer: this is my opinion




kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 5:36:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If you find prison officers more average than yourself, then that is your problem with your own self image.
Prison officers are extremely couragous.  But they are still american peoples.
Officals are what let america down, as they do in any country.  Really, your comprehension is very poor.
 
KD, I understand you have a problem with me and have for a long time, but there is no need to take it out on stellas thread, it is incredibly disrespectful to her and the people reading.  Take it to the other side if you wish, but I am not feeding your masochism here.
 
the.dark.

 
No the.Dark...I have never had a problem with you...ever... I mean that...And I am not taking it out on Stella...and will not disrespect her or you... But it does bother me when you jump on people for not reading the post... then turn around and misquote it. You don't like what some people have posted in response and you were very disrespectful to them....even though you are making the same mistake... If you give disrespect...expect to get it.
 
Butch




camille65 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 5:49:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
 Stella there are a lot of people here who support you.


i was not saying that there are not people who do....but i know it gets tiring when you post your story and the few ruin it with their bullshit...sorry if it was taken otherwise...

camille...you seem to have a personal vendetta against me...stop reading more into what i write than what is there....

 I read exactly what you typed. I think there are more that support her than not, although I haven't actually counted and tallied the posts. I wholeheartedly agree that the negativism that often follows a personal story can be discouraging and depressing. Even though this is technically a board full of strangers it can still be difficult to open oneself up, when it is followed with having things picked over it is frustrating. Often it makes me feel like the original words get so lost. Like that old kids game 'Operator' where one kid whispers a word and it gets passed down the chain. (Yes I know that dates me.. the world prior to personal electonics)Eventually the final word has absolutely nothing to do with the original one. I don't understand why this particular thread seems to be bringing out the worst in a few people, that makes no sense to me. [8|] People here scoff a lot at the thought of there being a community but doesn't there have to be? At least some kind of basic commonality or sharing?If there is no community, no cohesion then there is no organised way to stand up when stuff like this happens. This is when I think we most need to have a community.




TheHeretic -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 6:04:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I don't understand why this particular thread seems to be bringing out the worst in a few people,



        Camille, if you think asking questions on a "boo-hoo" thread, with various renditions of the facts (see the SO's profile for a totally different rendition of what is going on here) is "the worst" in me, you don't know me very well at all. [8|]




camille65 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 6:09:36 PM)

Deleted because it really isn't worth arguing over, which was the point of my post...




SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 6:17:05 PM)

i feel bad that this happened, but i cant help having questions.  i know the atlanta press and they would be on a story like this like stink on shit.....i even suggested the SO go to myfoxatlanta.com and get a number to call while stella was still here in atlanta...

i dont want to seem like i dont care, but i just find it hard to believe some of the things stated.....and i also, while supporting stella as a woman, can totally understand, in this day and time, someone who had a passport stating female and appearing to be a male would get extra attention from the folks at the airport. 

and im sorry, but once you are being held in a jail, i think giving you male clothes and putting you with men, based on your penis, was the right thing to do.  they didnt place you there in female clothes, which could have been horrible, or place you in with the females, which i am sure, right or wrong, would have left them wide open to claims by female prisoners of being forced to reside with a male.

the SO mentions guardianship being talked about. i think, if the authorities were told that, they would assume that meant coming here to stay......

i still say contact the news here in atlanta and let them bring this to light.......they are always looking for ways to make the govt here look like morons, and would jump at the opportunity.




SgtZiggy -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 6:21:48 PM)

I hate to come across as an ass, but the immigration officials were right in denying the OP legal entry to the US, if two facts that I got from the disjointed rambling of the post are correct:

1: The OP has a penis.
2: The OP was attempting to enter the US on a passport that indicated that the OP is Female.

I've worked for an immigration attorney in the past, and this is a clear case of attempting to enter the US under false pretenses. A person with a penis, under US law, is legally male. Attempting to enter the US on a passport that describes the issuee as Female is grounds for deportation, and it is the practice of the US government to mark the refusal of entry on any documents presented that are suspected of being false or used improperly. Honestly, if you're coming to the US, I would expect you to follow our laws during the time you're here... We did have about 3000 of our countrymen (including 5 personal friends of mine) killed a few years back, largely due to being a bit lax on visa control.




farglebargle -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 6:44:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtZiggy

I hate to come across as an ass, but the immigration officials were right in denying the OP legal entry to the US, if two facts that I got from the disjointed rambling of the post are correct:

1: The OP has a penis.
2: The OP was attempting to enter the US on a passport that indicated that the OP is Female.

I've worked for an immigration attorney in the past, and this is a clear case of attempting to enter the US under false pretenses. A person with a penis, under US law, is legally male. Attempting to enter the US on a passport that describes the issuee as Female is grounds for deportation,


Explain how the Passport was LAWFULLY ISSUED by the Passport Office in the UK. If the UK Government says, "Here is OUR CITIZEN.", who the fuck are you to disagree?

quote:


Honestly, if you're coming to the US, I would expect you to follow our laws during the time you're here...


Why? You haven't hauled Bush in front of a Jury to be tried for his violation of 18 USC 371, when he defrauded Congress and The People into authorizing force in Iraq.

If BUSH is exempt from the Law, why should *anyone* be expected to follow it.

quote:


We did have about 3000 of our countrymen (including 5 personal friends of mine) killed a few years back, largely due to being a bit lax on visa control.


Well, actually it was WHOLLY DUE to obedience to the US Government's instructions to negotiate with hijackers. The people on Flight 93 DID NOT OBEY THE GOVERNMENT and engaged the hijackers, saving countless lives. The other suckers on the 3 planes who OBEYED the US Government?

They are the ones responsible for not stopping the hijackers. No-one else. They sat in their seats and ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.

So, the lesson of 9/11 is to DISOBEY THE GOVERNMENT AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT.





LadyDemonikaTS -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 7:14:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SgtZiggy

I hate to come across as an ass, but the immigration officials were right in denying the OP legal entry to the US, if two facts that I got from the disjointed rambling of the post are correct:

1: The OP has a penis.
2: The OP was attempting to enter the US on a passport that indicated that the OP is Female.

I've worked for an immigration attorney in the past, and this is a clear case of attempting to enter the US under false pretenses. A person with a penis, under US law, is legally male. Attempting to enter the US on a passport that describes the issuee as Female is grounds for deportation, and it is the practice of the US government to mark the refusal of entry on any documents presented that are suspected of being false or used improperly. Honestly, if you're coming to the US, I would expect you to follow our laws during the time you're here... We did have about 3000 of our countrymen (including 5 personal friends of mine) killed a few years back, largely due to being a bit lax on visa control.


Being TS is not an attempt to enter under false pretenses.  The person lives full time as female, and has the right to be regarded as such no matter what archaic beliefs might be spouted.




kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 8:15:39 PM)

This is a shame because I do believe Stella had the best of intentions. I don’t know if SgtZiggy is correct but if he is …I would say it is the laws of the country you are entering that counts…not the law of the country of origin.

As seeksOnlyOne has said they could not let her use the female facilities or hold her with females. They don’t know her or her intentions. If she rebelled at these restrictions I can understand the response. The officials were put in a tough spot themselves.
I hope she tries again but this time contact the American embassy and find out for sure the proper procedures.




thompsonx -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 8:54:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

This is a shame because I do believe Stella had the best of intentions. I don’t know if SgtZiggy is correct but if he is …I would say it is the laws of the country you are entering that counts…not the law of the country of origin.
A passport is nothing more than a letter of introduction from one country to another country of a given citizen of the issuing country.  The issuing country says this is Miss Jones and here is what she looks like.  This particular passport was of the "biometric"sort which uses Retina Scan, Digital Facial Recognition Scan, Finger Print from each hand and a few more criteria that absolutely identify the carrier of the passport.  The presence or absence of a cock is irrelevant.



As seeksOnlyOne has said they could not let her use the female facilities or hold her with females. They don’t know her or her intentions.
Are you suggesting that the authorities suspected her intentions were to be tossed into jail in a foreign country so she could have her way with the female inmates....common Butch try just a half teaspoon of rationality in your coffee before you post such rhetoric.


If she rebelled at these restrictions I can understand the response. The officials were put in a tough spot themselves.
I hope she tries again but this time contact the American embassy and find out for sure the proper procedures.




Sanity -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 9:06:29 PM)

It's really amusing to see others trying so desperately to use your sad little story for their own political grandstanding and to bash others who have religious views different than their own, but the actual problem is that you apparently tried to enter the US to work illegally, and no one is allowed to do that. There is a lot of paperwork and a very long wait if you wish to come work here... and that fact has nothing to do with that bad mean old President Bush, either.

That's the way things have been since long before he even thought about moving to Washington.

The way you were treated is deplorable, if it's true. But I'm not sure I believe all of it, I think you're possibly embellishing things as playwrights and writers so often do.




farglebargle -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 9:19:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's really amusing to see others trying so desperately to use your sad little story for their own political grandstanding and to bash others who have religious views different than their own, but the actual problem is that you apparently tried to enter the US to work illegally, and no one is allowed to do that. There is a lot of paperwork and a very long wait if you wish to come work here... and that fact has nothing to do with that bad mean old President Bush, either.

That's the way things have been since long before he even thought about moving to Washington.

The way you were treated is deplorable, if it's true. But I'm not sure I believe all of it, I think you're possibly embellishing things as playwrights and writers so often do.


A Government which tortures prisoners in it's custody doesn't *get* the benefit of the doubt. They should have considered the effect of their acts to the credibility of the United States before they acted dishonorably.





kdsub -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 9:31:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

As seeksOnlyOne has said they could not let her use the female facilities or hold her with females. They don’t know her or her intentions.
Are you suggesting that the authorities suspected her intentions were to be tossed into jail in a foreign country so she could have her way with the female inmates....common Butch try just a half teaspoon of rationality in your coffee before you post such rhetoric.



Hi Thompsonx...I am not up on customs laws for entering the US...are you? I made no mention of cock or no cock... I just said the law of the US would count not the law of UK.

I am suggesting the prison officials had no choice... it makes no difference if they believed one way or another. They could not guarantee her intentions... can you imagine the uproar and law suits if for any reason you purposely housed a man with women in a controlled confined area. Even if nothing happened the other detainees could raise hell. And if something did happen the suits would be very expensive.

There is no way they would take that chance  even if  small.

Butch




stella41b -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 10:11:19 PM)

Thank you all for your kind words, expressions of support, etc. I speak for Halley and myself, we are both deeply touched and it IS helping us get through this.

I'm coming back in on this just to give people an update. I just wish to add the following points.

For anyone who may think this is contrived or made up I really and genuinely wish it was. I'm taking no pleasure nor do I feel any sense of enjoyment out of doing what I feel I have to do right now. I would much rather be in Mississippi with Halley and her family preparing for Christmas and spending time with them and others in this part of the United States, I would much rather be meeting with people who could have given me the necessary information and support I needed to assist and support a future visa application with the US Consulate in London, I would have preferred to actually see the damage done by Katrina with my own eyes, spoken with the people personally and learned from them the exact situation of what I would be getting myself into and where I would be able to help. However this is not to be.

At the moment I am responding to people, lots of people on both sides of the Atlantic, people who have expressed their support and sympathy and generously offered support and help. I am aware of all this and very much appreciate it, and would ask these people to understand that I am aware of these offers and to be a little patient.

I am working on my response. My response is to make a statement of facts about me, my life, and what happened not just during my time in the United States but also during the time leading up to this period. I intend that my response will be in the form of an affidavit and therefore I intend to swear by the facts given in my response. Once this is completed it will be presented along with a copy of the US immigration officer's statement given to me as justification for his decision to refuse my entry to the United States and also copies of my defaced passport. All of the above will be presented to the US Embassy in London, the Foreign Office, and to other interested people, including the media for public information. All this will be later made available on my website with photographs of my passport.

I wish to apologize for my earlier comments regarding the Bush administration and wish to withdraw and retract any previous political statements I have made as I do not see this as a political situation and have no wish to make this a political statement in any way. I am not a politician and have no wish to be a politician, I am an artist and see my own political views as being my own private affair as I view the political opinions of others and respect their views as the same, even where they differ. I honestly believe in democracy in the literal meaning of the word.

The facts are, and my response will show them to be, as follows - on Dec 13 I flew from London Gatwick into Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport with the intention of flying on to Gulfport/Biloxi regional airport in Mississippi with the intention of spending Christmas with Halley and her family, or our family, and of gathering information necessary to support a future visa application to return to the United States in 2008 to continue the development of my relationship with Halley and her family and to rebuild my life as planned in the United States in accordance with US laws, statutes and visa requirements for immigrants. I was dealt with in a manner which was abusive towards me by officials representing the US Border and Homeland Security agency, who also misled me and lied to me, they also misled and lied to Halley's family, and refused my entry to the US on the basis of inaccurate assumptions and lies based on the information I gave them in good faith. The basis of these allegations was a direct challenge to the identity assigned to me by the UK Passport Agency and a refusal to acknowledge my UK passport as a legal travel document.

The harrassment of people who do not conform to society norms - not just transgendered people like myself but also and including people of a different sexual orientation, people who choose to live differently and people who are unable for whatever reason to provide for themselves - is not a problem which is exclusive to the United States but happens in every country in the world. My treatment at the hands of the US authorities is but one example of hundreds of thousands of such abuses which happen every day all over the world. My being a TS female therefore is purely coincidental. Who knows? Had I joined a different queue at Atlanta Airport the results might have been very different, none of this would have needed to be written and we would not be having this discussion.

I therefore stand by my earlier impressions and refuse to view what happened to me in Atlanta as a reflection of the American people and would ask all Americans reading this not to feel any sense of shame or guilt as to what happened. The only victims here are those who choose to be victims, I refuse to be a victim because of what has happened, it is just part of my gender reassignment process and I accept it as such. However I also stand by my earlier impression which is the form of government employed in the United States is a barbaric one which does not respect the rights of the individual - whether they be American or non-American - and I feel that what has happened is a wonderful opportunity which can be taken to seek a change which I feel is necessary in society not just for my benefit, but for the benefit of everyone else who has ever suffered the sort of injustice which I have suffered.

Let us not overlook the most basic and fundamental issues here - the basic human right of someone to be who they really are, to live in the manner in which they choose to live and to be a happy, productive member of society and to live their life with the people they choose to share their life with. Let us not forget that it just wasn't my rights which were denied in Atlanta, but also the rights of Halley, a US citizen who exercised the choice to invite me to the United States for Christmas and to further develop our relationship to create a happy family.

I didn't choose to be a TS female - this is how I was born and who I really am, and who I am diagnosed as by various medical professionals. However I chose to be a playwright and stage director, and it is a career which I have developed through hard work, through a lot of personal sacrifice, and more importantly, through my previous achievements in Polish theatre which have been documented both in the Internet and in the Polish media. Since the start of this century I have predominantly supported myself from income coming in from my work as a playwright and stage director, and in my previous 10 years of artistic work in Polish theatre this income has come more from people who were prepared to pay to see my work than from funding from government bodies. Almost all the funding raised as a result of my work has gone to benefit other people as opposed to me.

It is important to remember that two years ago in Poland I was an established member of Polish culture prior to my downfall through coming out publicly as myself and choosing to continue to pursue my chosen occupation as who I am Stella. This excluded me from society and caused me to become homeless and to seek assistance from organisations in the United Kingdom. Have I claimed and received benefits during my time here in the UK? Yes I have and I feel no sense of shame or guilt in admitting this, it is assistance and help to which I was entitled and I have made use of such help and assistance to help me rebuild my life. But I have also worked voluntarily to help those people who were worse off than me and to help them rebuild their lives also.

Two years have passed in my life and these have been very difficult years, but during this time I have worked hard to reestablish myself and work towards integration into society as my true self, i.e. female. Now either I can back down and give up everything I have worked for in these two years and accept that I am unacceptable as a person to society and continue to live my life in a Housing Association apartment in London and continue to live off welfare benefits at the expense of the taxpayer but I see this as to me an unacceptable way of living and would rather drop dead than live in this manner.

Or I can choose to stand by everything I have ever done in my life and to take up the fight against those who would rather exclude me from society and keep me in poverty and living off welfare benefits and assert my position in society to live in a manner equal to other people - I refuse to accept that me being a TS female or a playwright and stage director makes me any different to anyone else - in that I wish to work in my chosen occupation and be a part of a family, I wish to have an income and to pay tax like everyone else, I feel I have a lot to offer people in society and this is the sum total of my efforts to date - an offer which is there to be taken and made use of for the benefit of other people.

I would rather not have to fight for these rights but to be allowed to live my life peacefully with my family and to earn an income as a productive member of society. However we don't live in an ideal world, nor is society ideal, and it just so happens that this is the way my life is. I see no sense in forcing issues with people nor in trying to live where i am not needed and not wanted, but am merely working to relocate to a place where I am needed and wanted and where I can live as not just myself but a normal, happy, productive member of society working for the benefit of other people.

I have therefore been placed in a position where I have to fight for these basic fundamental rights. Okay, so this is the situation and I accept this situation - I am refusing to back down, I am refusing to give in, and I'm making a decision here and now to dedicate the rest of my artistic career as a playwright and stage director to this fight and this struggle - not just for myself but for the benefit of everyone. These are my words and once this posting is posted here on this forum these words will stand, and I fully intend that each and every one of these words are backed up by actions - and I would ask anyone who chooses to support me and join me in this struggle to also be prepared to back up their words with actions. As quickly as possible I would like 'my' struggle to become 'our' struggle.

What is this fight and struggle about? Before last week I honestly believed that this would be to share my experiences in overcoming the effects of losing one's income and livelihood through social injustice to help other people in the states of Mississippi and Louisiana to overcome the loss of their livelihoods and incomes as a result of Hurricane Katrina through my work in theatre to help them find a new future. This has now changed - this is now a fight against social injustice and intolerance, a fight against poverty and a fight against social exclusion.

I refuse to accept welfare payments as a justified means of fighting poverty when in fact in reality it only maintains and encourages poverty and makes the issue of poverty and I also refuse to live anywhere in this world - be it the United States or any other country - illegally. Therefore I stand by my original plans to enter the United States legally as an immigrant in accordance with the statutes and laws decided by Congress and to work with anyone to help those less fortunate to find the opportunities to rebuild their lives and rejoin society as active, happy, productive members of society living as themselves openly and living freely in the lifestyle they choose to live without fear of hostility, prejudice or social exclusion.

People have asked me and Halley how they can help. You can all help in a way which doesn't require much effort and which doesn't cost you anything. I don't have a magic wand, I cannot perform miracles, nor am I superhuman, but just the same as everyone else. I am assuming the same is true for everyone who reads this. Social change happens as a result of hundreds of thousands of people, even millions, accepting a particular way of thinking or seeing things from a different perspective.

This is all I am ssking - I will leave it for each of you individually to choose whether you wish to adopt such ways of thought or to choose to see things from my offered perspective.

Firstly, we need to accept that poverty - like it or not - exists in society and that there are people who through circumstances beyond their control are poor and who are living off welfare payments. There are people in this world who cannot provide for themselves or their families as we are able to. Secondly we have to accept that this may not be the fault of the people themselves who are poor or living off welfare, but it could be as a result of the inadequacies of the system. Therefore rather than choosing to look for and blame the person living off welfare, we need to look at the system which finds it acceptable and tolerable to have so many people living in poverty and living off welfare. Sticking people in trailers and giving them welfare isn't an acceptable measure towards rebuilding a society devastated by a major hurricane, just as an example.

Similarly immigration laws need to be crystal clear and applied fairly to everyone. Again rather than assuming it is the fault of the immigrant we need to perhaps look at changing the system so that immigration requirements are clearly spelled out and that immigration laws are enforced.

Thirdly I feel we have to accept that the basis of modern society is diversity. Rather than looking at other people and deciding whether they are acceptable to society or not maybe we should be looking at our system and deciding whether this is a system which benefits society as a whole. A respect for the rights of an individual, irrespective of where that person was born, what colour or tone their skin colour is, the manner in which they choose to live, with whom and why is of paramount importance in modern society - provided of course that they live in accordance with the law and do not seek to harm other people or their property.

If you feel ashamed or guilt for being American, for example, you need to ask yourself why you feel such shame and guilt. I see no other reason for anyone, whether they be American or not, to feel any sense of shame or guilt other than for being aware that they live in a society or system which makes them feel guilty or ashamed. It is no more acceptable to feel guilty or ashamed for being American than to be, for example, to feel ashamed and guilty for being gay or transgendered. Again if you feel ashamed or guilty for being who you are then maybe you need to speak out and protest against whatever is making you feel guilty or ashamed of being who you are.

This is where I feel we have gone wrong - we are afraid of speaking out and protesting and making our views known, and yet we accept injustice and intolerance shown to others as something which is inevitable. It isn't. It isn't even acceptable, and yet we accept it. Why?

We are told we live in a democratic society and have freedom, but every day we come across evidence which suggests otherwise. Words without actions are meaningless, and I feel it is about time that the words those in power use to win our votes are backed up by actions which we can see and learn to believe in.

These are the fundamental values in this fight and struggle I am undertaking. Please feel free to join me.




thompsonx -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 10:14:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I would be curious to hear the other side of the story.  It sounds suspiscious that you had no access to water or bathroom, but got to call your SO.  I have to be honest, I have heard the I was completely polite and well behaved story and then seen the tapes to many times to not want to hear the rest of the story. 
I suppose you have never seen video from the "Dash Camera" in the police car silently recording the illegal behavior of some in uniform?

You being transgendered, does not excuse bad behaivor.  If your Meds were denied, you deserve a large settlement.  What sort of Meds anyway, hormones?
Why would this question be relevant?

Is it possible you were having ahormonal reaction to the stress of a trans continental flight? 
Nothing stated so far has indicated that this might be the case.  Why are you trying to inject a non argument into the discussion. 
Since she was flying from England to the U.S. it would be a trans-oceanic flight not a trans continental flight.

A biometric passport means nothing unless you have a biometric reader to scan the person in front of you, read the information encoded in the passport to compare, and crosscheck with the home office that it is correct.  Do they have those in Atlanta hooked up to london?  I kind of doubt it.
Since Bio-metric passports are all the rage now why would all U.S. port of entries not have the appropriate hardware to deal with them. 
Perhaps if you were to do a little research on the subject you could tell us which U.S. port of entry does not have the ability to read the Bio-metric passports.  Go on give goggle a try it is easy.

I am not a jump to conclusion kind of guy.

There is so much here that you haven't really covered.  It is not outlandish that your SO has a cell phone or that she asked about you at the airport, and spoke to officials.  So saying she was at the airport, therefore she could not have spoken to an official doesn't make any sense.
For a guy who claims to not be a "jump to conclusions kind of guy" you seem to be airborne on this.


I can make not statements about her, but it is not unheard of to say the truth under stress.   Illegal workers are a political issue right now. 

You do say this is a new life for you and are radically changing.  How long have you been a part of the 5 year olds life?  Why do you have contact with a internets BDSM lovers child in Mississippi at all?  Again I don't have all the facts,
Perhaps you might learn a few more of the facts if you were to read what the two individuals in this situation have posted.  Again it appears that you are trying to inject something sinister into this situation that does not exist.
Party A and party B are significant to one another.  Party A is terminally ill and party B is seeking to adopt the child of party A.  Nothing sinister here at all. 
 


but something smells here.  This whole thing sounds contrived to me, and simply publicity.  Are you dragging a 5 year old into a publicity stunt?
You are the only one seeking to drag a 5 year old into anything.

This will absolutly get you publicity and a lot of supporters (I am sure the Nation will do a story on your "theater program", along with the "ususal suspects".    Just a week or so ago on these threads we discussed an ACLU employee, who was very familiar with the rules for questioning, intentionally violate several in order to sue.  Chomsky intentioanlly publishes books in Cuba so the USA will deny import.  Anyone with commonsense can see how this works,
Just how common is commonsense?


and you seem like a pretty bright person.  Make a living off Government grants
Why is it OK for you to live off of the government dole and not others?



pretending you are being oppressed, it's an old play, every American city already has this.  There is a whole freaking industry built around professional protest.
Which industry would that be?


But leave the kid out of it ok.  Show you care about the kid and do every thing you can to shield her from it.  Don't use her as the conclusion and last word of your argument.  That is exploitive.
Once again I would point out you are the only one who keeps slinging ink about the child.

I find your statements about the Atlanta detention center to not quite add up.  And you don't seem to understand why everyone is so polite.  You say you were with the murderers, general criminals.
Where did she say she was with murderers and general criminals?
You know or should know that she was locked up with other detainees who are innocent till proved guilty.  Remember fourth grade civics class?


They are in pre arraignment, and everything is very important.  Any sort of infraction will result in extra charges, or be the difference between walking out that afternoon. 

The whole thing sounds very Drama Queenish and intentional.  Leave the 5 year old kid out of it though.  If your SO said you were coming to try to sell plays, you got properly denied entry. 
"IF" being the operant word here.
For a man who claims to "not jump to conclusions" you seem to have spent your entire post airborne.

American transgendered rabble rousers need those jobs.






Maya2001 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 10:17:01 PM)

Stella I am sorry about what happened


though will add,    since 9 -11  major changes has occured for all entering through the US border even for US residents trying to return home even I have been detained and interrogated a few times  going over as a single blonde haired obviously caucasion older female alone  who has live almost her entire life in Canada so  foreign accent doing dog rescues with the intent of only being in the US for a couple of hours and with documentation from the rescues I am getting dogs from driving a plain older model sedan with dog crates in plain view and did not even have as much as a speeding ticket on my record  if they used my licence plates to check me out, I had id on me to prove who I am,  obviously do not look like an international terrorist nor drug dealer and they still decided to detain me

but here is some past post relating to border crossings
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1415585/mpage_1/key_border/tm.htm#1416222

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1109290/mpage_1/key_border/tm.htm#1109675

when US residents get hassled trying to enter their own country better damn well expect foreign will recieved even a harder time







dudd -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 10:18:06 PM)

Sorry Stella, we`re not all bad.

Sorry for your treatment,
sorry for the brutes and nit-wits,
sorry about your ruined plans and aggravation,
and sorry for the Sanitys and the luckydogs.




kc692 -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 11:13:11 PM)

I am coming to this thread late.  I am so sorry Stella, I was planning to contact you on here during your visit, and as we had talked about, trying to come to you on another day to meet and visit.  How I wish my schedule would have been open that day!! I know I would not have been able to do anything, but I would have tried.  I am at a loss for what to say to apologize for our nation, there is no excuse. I hope you win, and I also hope you are able to come back and walk in front of the same ignorant assholes at the airport you dealt with last time, and they be helpless to stop you.




angelikaJ -> RE: My two impressions of America (12/15/2007 11:20:16 PM)

Stella,
Thank you for continuing to provide us with information.

I am not ashamed to be an American, but neither at this juncture am I especially proud.

I am, however, outraged.

Best wishes,
jenn




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