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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:28:09 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Thats interesting what you say there Darcy - about the chain.

In my younger, and more stupid (yes, I was once even more daft than now) I studied some self defence techniques using of all things, a BIC biro as a weapon. Absolutely deadly if one knows what to do with it. And I take them on planes in my bag all the time - gotta have something to do the crossword with.

Then there's my high heels. I certainly wouldnt want a crack on the head even with the 2'' heels I wear, let alone anything higher and more stabby.

And I can take a lighter on board - what fun. (though obviously, more than one lighter is dangerous). How about I take the Times to the toilet, screw the pages into fire sticks, light them and start throwing them out the door into the passenger area?

And there's my belt, which I can strangle someone with.

And my personal favourite - pose as a diabetic, necessitating the taking of a needle on board. Halfway through flight, draw some blood, grab a hostess and announce I have HIV and will inject said hostess with infected blood should this that or the other not be done (in flight drinks at half price would be a reasonable demand I think).

And I failed my Al Quaeda interview. Shame really, as I have the most deadly combination of terrorist paraphernalia ever devised - a female passport and a penis.

E


Greetings  Lady,

We just touched on this subject recently,didn`t we?

Thank god no one got tasered,.. or worse.I fear it will be long time before we catch up with the rest of the "civilized" world.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:38:58 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Perhaps I am being naive about this, but I think too much focus is placed on the US' stance on terrorism. Of course procedures will have been tightened, that was to be expected, but I seriously doubt Stella was a victim of that and more likely someone facing yet another prejudice which singled them out for attention, and upon scrutiny, the powers that be found another reason which led to their decision. But we can go around the houses looking for a reason and will remain clueless until an official reason has been offered.

What has happened to Stella and no doubt, countless others, is deplorable, and I cannot even begin to imagine how soul-destroying it must be to face the discrimination some individuals do. I am assuming that for Stella to have been granted a passport listing her gender as 'female', she would have had to satisfy the criteria set by the UK's government regarding the listing of gender on the passports of transsexuals/transgendered people. Regardless of their reasons for refusing Stella entry to the US, I do believe her human rights were abused, given that her gender is listed as female, and to place her in a holding with men is sickening. By placing any transsexual (m to f)  in such a holding facility with other men shows a disregard for the psychological/physical well-being of someone in their charge. According to wikipedia:

"Within the US, some state jurisdictions do allow amendments or complete replacement of the original birth certificates."  That must also mean that some states do not.

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:50:36 AM   
LadyEllen


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I'm just pondering whether to email the department concerned, as a UK business person wishing to come to the US and as a TS person, to ask what if any special procedures and or documents I might need to gain entry......

E

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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:56:00 AM   
spanklette


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Being prepared is a great idea, but anything that separates you from the masses (including requesting information) can lead to being detained at the airport. I found this out the hard way after calling to check on seating assignments. If you do request information, do so anonymously.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:58:36 AM   
kdsub


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LadyEllen...I hope i never make you really mad....

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 10:56:03 AM   
MissMorrigan


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There is a lot of speculation in this thread, which is natural. I think it's a very good idea for a UK citizen to make enquiries regarding the legal requirements for entry concerning transsexuals. Although surely there would still be restrictions given that not every state supports passport gender alterations, so it would be interesting to also learn about this.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I'm just pondering whether to email the department concerned, as a UK business person wishing to come to the US and as a TS person, to ask what if any special procedures and or documents I might need to gain entry......

E

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 11:03:01 AM   
Politesub53


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Yes Miss Morrigan, that got me thinking too. Would there be different rules about entering America, depending on State laws?

My impression and experience has always been as follows. If you have the following documents there is no reason America would refuse entry.

Valid UK Passport....... And its fair to say there are forgerys about.
An address for where you are staying.....
A return ticket for within three months..... This was essential
No criminal record......
Not looking for work.....

I agree if you dont follow the rules then you bring about your own woes.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 11:41:50 AM   
caitlyn


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I think spanklette makes a point that can't be brushed aside. Do not enter via Atlanta.
 
To term this thread "My two impressions of America" is basically in-your-face pointless ... when the proper title should be "My One Impression of How Annoying the Atlanta Airport is."
 
I would be shocked if anyone had trouble like this coming in via Houston, or as spanklette mentioned, New Orleans.
 
I'm your basic white-bread, American college student, and will pay twice the fare to avoid the airports in Chicago, Atlanta and on top of that list, Dallas. One airline, flying out of Dallas, is currently involved in a lawsuit based upon denying a passenger a seat, because they felt her skirt was too short. I once had my carry-on checked in Dallas, and noticed later, that someone had written "yumy" (yes, spelled incorrectly) on a pair of my panties, with my own lipstick.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 12:27:24 PM   
spanklette


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I was beginning to think it was just me...I actually rented a car to drive from Atlanta after I had already purchased a ticket....UGH!!! And, it was just as bad before 9/11...they just have an "excuse" now.

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~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 12:40:39 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


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America got scared after September 11 and September 11 gave some in government a free pass to "discriminate" much like the Bombing of Pearl Harbor did to the Japanese Americans after December 7, 1941. I believe the Department of Homeland Security is a joke.  The world isn't the same place it was since January 2001.  I try to live my life and enjoy it but I think it's sad that many of us now live with eyes wide open.

I wish you luck Stella and I really hope you got in touch with Southern Voice in Atlanta so that they can break this story for all people that are transgendered. Atlanta is not only a huge airport but a huge LBGT community and I would suspect many trans people from other countries visit Atlanta, perhaps they should know about your treatment.

Dark Blessings,
Zulu

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 2:04:26 PM   
adoracat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

*now* they do, yes.  this was before the shoe-removal regulation happened.  my son and i were pulled out for a random search...

they searched me but NOT the wheelchair.  and yes, a padded seat could conceal something, you know? 

i dont mind so much the regulations that are now in place.  although they did lead to some amusement when i was wearing cowboy boots and needed help from the imp in removing them.  :)

if *everyone* is treated the same, i have no issues.  its annoying, yes, but if everyone is annoyed the same, so be it.

kitten


Oh ok, I was incorrectly thinking you meant recently. 

My Dad - a 76 year old man with cancer and a walker - was also asked to step away from the walker, lift the chair portion of it  (there is storage underneath) and remove his slippers, also.  He grumbled a little, until my Mom told him to knock it off - the bigger the stir a person creates, the bigger the fiasco, ya know?

I didn't mean to point you out critically, adoracat.  I agree it is unfortunate and annoying what we have to go through now, and that prejudices are never good. 

For the heck of it, I Googled information about Transgenders flying internationally and passport issues - there were several articles pointing out the confusion that can occur, and listed tips in limiting the problems that have been known to happen.  They also list links where people can go to file harrassment complaints.  It is my belief that anyone with a changed passport or questionable situation should look into such issues before traveling.  It didn't take me long to find enough articles that indicated TGs often have problems flying internationally.  Some of those articles came from TG groups, such as TG Crossroads and TS Roadmap.  There is also a pretty decent article from the UK's Foreign & Commonwealth Office, stating international travel tips for those who are transgender.  Apparently international travel is a known problem for transgenders, and there are several groups working toward educating those in authority and creating rules that are a bit more fair. 



its quite ok, girlie.    i would have made the same assumption, honestly.  i just know i dont fly often cause i hate it. 

my point was that at the time, i was singled out.  it wasnt something that everyone was doing, and although it sucks, the same restrictions across the board are easier to bear.

i dont think *any* one group should be singled out.

kitten

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 6:54:45 PM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


My thoughts exactly. I reserve judgment until I see some actual facts, not just what one side has asserted. It's just that this person's story allows everyone to jump on the bandwagon and bemoan some facet of this country and its government and how it's run.


Since the government in question is TORTURING PRISONERS, I'm don't understand why any rational person would give it the benefit of the doubt.

The price of Liberty and Freedom is accepting the risks inherent in All having Liberty and Freedom. If someone is too much of a coward to accept those risks, I can understand why the Security Theater at the Airports would come as a comfort to their tiny little brains.





It's a basic concept called "innocent until proven guilty."

Again, just because some person came on here and claimed this happen to her, does not make it the truth. Just because this claim fits inside your nice little box and allows you to join in on the mob mentality of decrying the US for something or other, doesn't mean I will accept it as the one and only truth.

Call me crazy, but I guess my tiny little brain is just big enough to not swallow a story that I've received no evidence of it being true. Unfortunately, yours appears to be too small to even ask a question. You just blindly take it as the truth, because you WANT it to be the truth. A blind fanatic, regardless of left or right-winged, is still a blind fanatic.

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RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 9:41:20 PM   
thompsonx


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lazarus:
I am just curious where you found the Heinlein quote in your sig line.  I am a fan and have read most of his work but the quote is one I am not familiar with.
thompson

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 10:05:54 PM   
stef


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It's from the novel Double Star.

~stef


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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/17/2007 11:11:24 PM   
thompsonx


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stef:
Thanx
thompson

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/18/2007 7:13:30 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


My thoughts exactly. I reserve judgment until I see some actual facts, not just what one side has asserted. It's just that this person's story allows everyone to jump on the bandwagon and bemoan some facet of this country and its government and how it's run.


Since the government in question is TORTURING PRISONERS, I'm don't understand why any rational person would give it the benefit of the doubt.

The price of Liberty and Freedom is accepting the risks inherent in All having Liberty and Freedom. If someone is too much of a coward to accept those risks, I can understand why the Security Theater at the Airports would come as a comfort to their tiny little brains.





It's a basic concept called "innocent until proven guilty."


A government which is torturing prisoners doesn't get to invoke "Due Process" in its own defense.

They should have considered what would happen to Due Process and Equal Protection when they started depriving other people of it.

Sucks to be a US Government Employee. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.






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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/18/2007 7:32:50 AM   
LadyEllen


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well, thats me on the watch list. I just submitted the following to the "questions" section of the Customs & Border Protection website

Hi - I'm planning to fly to the US to visit friends as a tourist for a week or so in 2008, along with my two children. My question relates to my specific situation, in that I'm a diagnosed transsexual who hasnt yet had sex reassignment surgery and I'll be flying on a female passport (British). Naturally, since I live and work as a female, I shall appear to be a female.
Is there anything I should know about entry to the US in these circumstances, any special requirement I need to meet, any additional document I should bring? What I want to avoid, is being stopped and possibly deported over my gender status compared to my physical make up. Thanks in advance.


Should I also post the same question to Homeland Security do you think?

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/18/2007 7:35:45 AM   
farglebargle


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I won't help, but it probably couldn't hurt.

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/18/2007 9:04:35 AM   
kdsub


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This question comes off sounding juvenile but I’ll bet it is the first thing that would pop into the mind of…less then understanding…average American. Including US Department of Homeland Security.

Under the circumstances outlined by LadyEllen and Stella ,which public bathroom facilities would or should be used? It did seem to be a problem for Stella and the authorities in charge.

I’m sure if there has been reassignment surgery then there would be no problem at all. But without reassignment, and intimate knowledge of the person involved, I don’t think a TS would be allowed in women’s facilities if their situation was known. Certainly governing officials would no allow it if only because they would be afraid of lawsuits.

We are an understanding group but I think in any country of the world the above thoughts would be prevalent.

Instead of trying to force your beliefs and feelings on the majority, if before reassignment, just get a passport as a male. Pack all the clothes you want and once safely thru dress as you like.

If the idea in your visit were to help others, this would be the way to go. If however you want to make a point on humane rights of Transsexuals, then by all means follow your previous attempt. This however does not help the victims of Katrina, but it may help the situation of TS’s in the US.

I just don’t think it is wise or realistic to do both.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: My two impressions of America - 12/18/2007 9:22:55 AM   
RCdc


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See now, this is where unisex bathrooms make all the sense.
 
I don't know about you kd, but I have been into both male toilets and a female ones.  Female toilets have cubicles.  Male toilets do not always have that.  Imagine, for a moment you are a transgendered M-F being forced to walk past half a dozen men in a public toilet, standing at urinals - doing what they do - to reach a private cubicle?(not to mention having the men have to deal with a transgendered person walking past - see - it isn't always women with 'issues')  Now, picture a transgendered Person being allowed to use the female public toilet.  We are not talking tiny little backstreet loos here.  We are talking busy airport, resturant or hotel facilities.  How about with a chaperone?  Private, individual cubicle with chaparone vs. semi public urinal areas.  How about allowing a transgendered person use the disabled facility?  There are many, many ways around it.
 
There are far worse things done in toilet facilities, like people not washing their hands, than allowing a transgendered person use a private cubicle.
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 12/18/2007 9:26:41 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 140
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