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when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 2:52:13 AM

rizzle

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline

do any of you subs / slaves find that when with a proper partner who you respect and trust, that the sex is not exciting enough simply because of that fact? That you know he will not go too far and you know he cares about you and you "know" he isnt raping you? What are the implications if someone is craving to be actually raped, rather than pretend raped? Has anyone been with someone like this and did counselling help, or are there any ways to show this person that their willingness to be put in dangerous situations could case them real physical and psychological harm?

Post #: 1

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 3:43:24 AM

exquisitefeline1

Posts: 69
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rizzle

do any of you subs / slaves find that when with a proper partner who you respect and trust, that the sex is not exciting enough simply because of that fact? That you know he will not go too far and you know he cares about you and you "know" he isnt raping you? What are the implications if someone is craving to be actually raped, rather than pretend raped? Has anyone been with someone like this and did counselling help, or are there any ways to show this person that their willingness to be put in dangerous situations could case them real physical and psychological harm?

Sometimes the human psyche is a worry.
i feel for the people who have become so twisted that they can not even enjoy normal sex anymore, i try not to even rely on pretend play too much so as to keep some appreciation for intimacy, being real, and not let my psycho/sexual momentum get out of control. Fetish, kink, and even exploring deep dark fantasies is all good, but when does one put a stopper on their desires?

i would say counseling would be helpful, but it could be difficult to open that kettle of fish, without some severe judgment from our respectables in society. Who knows where that would lead depending on the counselor. The community needs its own counselors, and facilitators, maybe that is where the professional Dom/Domme's come into play?

i can't possibly say that my partner is not exciting enough, and how do i "know" he is not really raping me? To prepare and be in a scene, one has to live the reality a little... of course he is not going to slab me 18 times and dump me somewhere, but he has taken me to the point where i am not sure who he is in that moment.

Have them starved from sexual contact for a while, punished for sexual thoughts, bring the libido down, and bring back some healthy appreciation.

(in reply to rizzle)

Post #: 2

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 5:17:07 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

rizzle, the rape fantasy is fine - having rape fantasies is common. I suspect, however, that if you actually were raped it would not live up to that fantasy. It is a violent act by people who don't care if you get your fanasty fulfilled by it.

Role play, allowing you and your partner plenty of time to get in character. When you're ready to start the action, make a movie of it, critique it afterward and do it better next time if you're both up for it.

If you can't get past the need to be raped for real, if you can't remove yourself from the preoccupation, counseling is probably in order to help you determine why you have this need. When you understand it, it is easier to work past.

Or you could go out walking alone at night in a high crime neighborhood and hope you live to enjoy the fulfillment of this fantasy. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

(in reply to exquisitefeline1)

Post #: 3

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 5:20:26 AM

wisteriaV

Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

Play rape is consentual. You are aware of it and its a completely different mindset from real rape. Play rape wont possibly get you killed either. Real rape may get you killed,physically and mentally scar you ( in some cases for life) and can take tons of therapy to resolve the self hatred, dirty body feelings ect. Being with Master for almost three years real time, I have not found our sex life to be dull boring or anything there of.

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to exquisitefeline1)

Post #: 4

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 5:51:42 AM

rizzle

Posts: 26
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline

i know all this is bad - what im looking for is ways to show the person that they need to do something to sort it out. the person in question has already had quite a scare in this regard but it doesnt seem to have changed things.

(in reply to wisteriaV)

Post #: 5

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 5:59:36 AM

sweetstorm

Posts: 227
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

I attended a BDSM rape play seminar not that long ago. To keep it exciting for her (since it was her favorite but they'd been doing it for 8 years... how do you keep the excitement there?) he'd (with her consent given FAR in advance that this was an okay thing to consider) arrange for his trusted fellow doms to hide in their house while they were out for dinner. When they arrived home from going out to a romantic dinner, the four unknowns came out and attacked them. They beat him and held him down to make it look real and then proceeded to rape her. She said she actually recognized one of them because he took off his gloves and he had distinctive hands, so she went from "We're going to die!" to not knowing what was going to happen but knowing that it was arranged by her dom.

Having your partner disguise himself by smells, costumes, gloves, whatever can apparently do a lot to keep the excitement going.

_____________________________

You don't need a parachute to skydive.

You need a parachute to skydive twice.

(in reply to rizzle)

Post #: 6

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 6:53:35 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Personally, I wouldn't play with someone who is that self destructive. YMMV

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(in reply to sweetstorm)

Post #: 7

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 9:33:59 AM

LittleWench

Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline

I wonder, how many victims of actual non consentual rape experience rape fantasies?
Having survived rape, counselled in a rape crisis centre, it is not a fantasy of mine.

Think about the rape fantasy, its about the struggle, the coercion, being dominated, being physically overwhelmed.
In full time D/s relationship I feel there is an implied consent, making rape impossible, however you can still put up a struggle if thats the scene you want to play. If my Owner bid it of me, I could put up a struggle or the entire duration and feel the physical reality of being forced and overwhelmed. I could not manufacture the fear, horror, loathing etc that come from a real rape and incorporate that into play rape. I can't comprehend that anyone would choose to feel that way, and once done it cannnot be undone, only worked through.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 8

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 10:29:21 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

I wonder, how many victims of actual non consentual rape experience rape fantasies?
Having survived rape, counselled in a rape crisis centre, it is not a fantasy of mine.

Think about the rape fantasy, its about the struggle, the coercion, being dominated, being physically overwhelmed.
In full time D/s relationship I feel there is an implied consent, making rape impossible, however you can still put up a struggle if thats the scene you want to play. If my Owner bid it of me, I could put up a struggle or the entire duration and feel the physical reality of being forced and overwhelmed. I could not manufacture the fear, horror, loathing etc that come from a real rape and incorporate that into play rape. I can't comprehend that anyone would choose to feel that way, and once done it cannnot be undone, only worked through.

ditto....i love the physical struggle durring play....but the concept of the mental struggle and the fear, horror, loathing etc, as mentioned above is incomprehensable to me, as i have felt it in a non-consensual situation and i do not want to recreate it...it was scary enough the 4 times it happened in a non play situation....in fact there are times that i have to fight the fear with a reminder to myself "hey, you have a safe word, anytime you don't like it, you can stop it, but you do like it...right? yep...if i don't i have my safe word....ok, back to enjoying the sensations" and that goes on inside my head...when it gets "too real" for whatever reason.....

chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 9

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 10:34:08 AM

HotFaerieMama

Posts: 2617
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline

i'm walking out of here... yeah.. i'll just keep my mouth shut...

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dirty girl

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 10

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 10:41:27 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rizzle

do any of you subs / slaves find that when with a proper partner who you respect and trust, that the sex is not exciting enough simply because of that fact? That you know he will not go too far and you know he cares about you and you "know" he isnt raping you? What are the implications if someone is craving to be actually raped, rather than pretend raped? Has anyone been with someone like this and did counselling help, or are there any ways to show this person that their willingness to be put in dangerous situations could case them real physical and psychological harm?

I am someone who likes the dynamic of "edge play, "forced consent" and "play rape". I have been doing it with someone for over 10 years and not once have I found it boring. It does not always work perfectly, but it is never boring.

The human mind can conjure up a myriad of creative ways to act on fantasies and desires in safe, healthy ways that are not harmful. That is the beauty of being involved in BDSM, it is an outlet for sexual expression that can be carthartic in many ways.

If you are suggesting that a partner of yours keeps demanding more and more intense situations that you yourself are not able to do to fulfill them, that is a different issue.

If your partner is obsessed with acting out something that would indeed truly be harmful, that would indicate some therapy is in order.

(in reply to rizzle)

Post #: 11

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 12:00:08 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

I wonder, how many victims of actual non consentual rape experience rape fantasies?

I can't comprehend that anyone would choose to feel that way, and once done it cannnot be undone, only worked through.

Me. It lets me experience an alternate ending, a safe ending, that doesn't end in friends breaking in to rescue, in endless screaming, in time missing from my memory, and the long, godawful road back. It lets me make a certain specific sexual scene (not rape, but the circumstances around it) okay to enjoy. Doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 12

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 12:08:52 PM

takenbyjohnr07

Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

Considering the alarming number of men and women who are raped every day and that some end up dead or their lives and families are ruined forever i don't fantsize about it. That's just me though. i probably think some other things are erotic that you don't.
My D's relationship is not one where we scene or play. It is incorporated into our every day life. So he is always my Owner and i am always his property. What he does to me makes it even more exciting to me, because it is not a game to him. It is a way of life and that i can trust him and rely on him to always know what i need and what is good for me. i am able to let him push my limits, becasue of that.

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 13

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 12:33:05 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Well you're sublier than me. Hmm, wait, it's not a game to me either. But I'm sure I'm still not as subly.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to takenbyjohnr07)

Post #: 14

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 2:41:49 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rizzle

i know all this is bad - what im looking for is ways to show the person that they need to do something to sort it out. the person in question has already had quite a scare in this regard but it doesnt seem to have changed things.

Rizzle, I think you're right. I'm not sure the desire to actually experience real harm has anything to do with d/s and/or bdsm. Our posts about types of play and scening and our dynamics aren't likely to be much help to you because all of those things are consentual. If I'm reading you right, what you are describing is someone that truly wishes life-threatening peril and abuse and that's scary and not about d/s. Get her help and good luck!
l

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to rizzle)

Post #: 15

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 3:00:55 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

I wonder, how many victims of actual non consentual rape experience rape fantasies?
Having survived rape, counselled in a rape crisis centre, it is not a fantasy of mine.

i have survived a brutal gangrape. i still struggle with ptsd and many other effects of this. i do experience rape fantasies, however, and have for most of my life. i agree with batshalom, though, when she says that the reality will not live up to the fantasy, which is why rape play and rape are vastly different.

in response to the original poster, as others have mentioned, this self-destructive urge is really beyond your help and i would recommend getting this person to seek out professional help, especially if "normal" sex or edge play, etc. won't do it for them.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 16

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 3:11:31 PM

exquisitefeline1

Posts: 69
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rizzle

i know all this is bad - what im looking for is ways to show the person that they need to do something to sort it out. the person in question has already had quite a scare in this regard but it doesnt seem to have changed things.

Us human are truly so complex.
First we can not show someone that they need to sort something out, they have to work it out for them self.
But, having said that, sometimes our friends can be our best counselors, and sometime professional help is needed.
Locating the key issues surrounding this problem.
You say she has had a scare, and it hasn't tamed her desires any?
She could be doing what Kali, mentioned of reliving the story, yet it is not the safety she is concern about, it is not changing the end, and having it in a scene and controlled environment.
It is difficult for people to know how to help you help your friend without understanding further some of her personality.
Is she normally a settled and stable person with a crazy fantasy in mind, and cant rest until it is completed?
Is she someone often swinging out of control emotionally etc?
Is she the kind of person who has a sack full of trauma, and is looking for that next big one she cant be comforted with?
Is she a person who has activated numerous levels of chemicals in her blood, and running on her own self sufficient adrenaline factory, therefore needing heightened experiences to give herself a good kick?

I would be curious as to what LA would say on the matter, she always seems to have some good advice and understanding.

(in reply to rizzle)

Post #: 17

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 3:21:35 PM

LittleWench

Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Me. It lets me experience an alternate ending, a safe ending, that doesn't end in friends breaking in to rescue, in endless screaming, in time missing from my memory, and the long, godawful road back. It lets me make a certain specific sexual scene (not rape, but the circumstances around it) okay to enjoy. Doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.

Thank you Cali, I would never have thought to use play scenes as an alternate means of healing. My statement was one of pure curiosity, no judgement of any type intended.

quote:

Well you're sublier than me. Hmm, wait, it's not a game to me either. But I'm sure I'm still not as subly.

Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the least subliest of them all.
Why my little wenchypoo, the least subliest is definitely you!

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 18

RE: when pretend play is not enough - 12/17/2007 4:24:52 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I am not interested in rape play. As for the sex not being exciting. Master still get me all excited all he has to do is touch me and we are going on 2 years now.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 19

xgnfxngfxngfxnfx - 12/18/2007 4:41:02 AM

Russngem

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline

cfgnfxgnfxngx

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 20

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