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From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 1:07:10 AM   
Submissiveideals


Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, basicly i have just began my journy down this road so i am intrested in others ideas. I have little experence and always seeking more. But i feel that most i have talked to only give me one POV. I am wondering if you, as submissives, would agree that a dom can hardly understand what a Sub feels when they are dominated without having experenced atleast once. I may be wrong in this idea and would like to be corrected but i also want to see what all POV there are on it. Thank you very much for you time.
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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 1:19:01 AM   
sakidorei


Posts: 65
Status: offline 		Unless a person IS submissive they won't understand what a submissive person feels in a certain situation and even then ... each person experiences things individually through the filter of their submission so to speak.  So i don't subscribe to the rather common notion that a Dom or Master needs to experience submissive encounters firsthand on the submissive side in order to understand what she goes through. 
 
i am not a Dom nor a Master so i will never understand exactly what He feels either ... i simply learn to appreciate and understand what i can and what He shares with me.  i could try to Domme someone i suppose but i'd still be a submissive playing a role and therefore would not truly be experiencing what a Dom would feel.
 
Personally i have no desire to submit to a switch or someone who has -crossed over or graduated- as some call it from submissive to dominant.  i prefer to serve an Alpha personality type ... not somone who is assuming a role for play purposes.  i realize that this doesn't follow what many others feel ... however it is my own preference and i've never had difficulties with my Alpha Masters understanding me or what i was going through despite having never been submissive themselves.
 
~saki
Property of Master D.

< Message edited by sakidorei -- 12/18/2007 1:20:16 AM >

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 1:28:49 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		A Dom doesn't need to understand how we feel, he does need to understand what we need in order to feel that.

A man doesn't need to conceive, feel pregnancy for 9 months, give birth in order to love and protect his child.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 2:49:24 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submissiveideals

I am wondering if you, as submissives, would agree that a dom can hardly understand what a Sub feels when they are dominated without having experenced atleast once. I may be wrong in this idea and would like to be corrected but i also want to see what all POV there are on it. Thank you very much for you time.


Do you feel a sub can only only understand a Dom if she has experienced being a Dominant at least once?

Sure it might give him some enlightenment but I can't think of any reason a Dom needs to serve before he can Dom well. An experienced Dom can have tremendous insight into his s-type's thoughts and feelings.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 3:19:43 AM   
Submissiveideals


Posts: 7
Joined: 9/7/2007
Status: offline 		I am not saying a Dom has to experence it ever. My idea is that it will improve his insight. But as i said i am new to this life style and that is why i was asking from the point of view of the submissive. Things i am seeking for one would be does that make him less of a Dom in your eyes, if at one point he served?

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 3:31:41 AM   
sakidorei


Posts: 65
Status: offline 		From my point of view which is undoubtably not going to be very popular ... it does make Him less of a Dom as i define it ... it certainly makes Him less of an Alpha and does affect my desire to serve Him on that basis.  Alot of people subscribe to different views however ... i tend to view switching as a taking on of roles for kink not as a reflection of definitive proclivities.  i wish to be in a relationship that is not based on choosen roles for the moment but is more reflective of one's natural inclinations.  To me topping and bottoming are choices and dominance and submission are more internal impetuses rather than simple choices for the moment.
 
~saki
Property of Master D.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 3:54:33 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sakidorei

From my point of view which is undoubtably not going to be very popular ... it does make Him less of a Dom as i define it ... it certainly makes Him less of an Alpha and does affect my desire to serve Him on that basis.  Alot of people subscribe to different views however ... i tend to view switching as a taking on of roles for kink not as a reflection of definitive proclivities.


I don't believe you can experience submission without being submissive.  You can be forced to submit, but that is not the same, you will not feel the same way as a submissive does.  Being forced to submit, for a dominant, could likely bring about the same feelings as a rape would.  I think in order for a Dom to experience submission he would have to, by necessity, be a switch, capable of feeling both.  Submission is not just the physical act of compliance.

You can send a Dom to a Domme and he will experience how it feels for the tools of submission to be used upon him, he will experience the pain of the flogger and know how it feels to hit his skin, but he won't internalize the pain the way a submissive does.  He will likely just process the pain for what it is, without the emotional basis of a submissive.  I believe for new Dom's this is a valuable learning experience for their physical expertise, but I don't believe it teaches them much about how it feels to be submissive.  Unless they have submissive tendencies, I don't see how they can possibly experience submission the way a submissive does.

(in reply to sakidorei)
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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 4:51:40 AM   
sakidorei


Posts: 65
Status: offline 		 
Most people define given roles within BDSM exchange differently and in my definition ... a "Dom" going to a "Domme" for experiences is not about D/s at all but about BDSM kink in which one agrees to be the top and one agrees to be the bottom.  D/s to me isn't about switching or evolving into roles ... it IS in my mind about natural proclivities.  When people are experimenting or switching it up in -scenes- or -encounters- then they are taking on a role ... be that a top role or a bottom role.  You don't have to be into D/s to be into BDSM in my book so when those two things are mingled the water gets pretty cloudy. 
 
i define a Dom as a natural role that while ever evolving with personal growth, doesn't change in the context of a person's nature and character.  An Alpha is pretty much always going to be an Alpha even when He is taking orders or instructions at work from someone else.  Just as a submissive is always going to be a submissive if that is what she really is ... even if her responsbilities in life force her to take on other roles in order to be productive in her family and economic wellbeing.  What role is negotiated between two parties for BDSM play in my mind has nothing much to do whether or not one is actually a Dom and one is actually a submissive. 
 
A D/s relationship to me is wholly separate from BDSM play and kink ... though they can certainly overlap.  Not everyone in my opinion who identifies themselves as a Dom is actually a Dom to me ... often they are simply prefer to Top in play.  The general characteristics of a Dom are more overarching than simply always Topping in play.  It's not that one is bad or less than another ... i see them as two totally separate roles ... most people tend to lump them together.  Because of this conviction ... i feel that a Dom could attempt to bottom for someone ... but it would not be at all the same as experiencing what a submissive experiences in a D/s exchange.  In order to experience that ... He'd have to be a switch or submissive Himself ... hence my statement that it would lessen my attraction to Him as a Dom.
 
~saki
Property of Master D.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 4:52:06 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Daddy understands how i feel, need, and crave without having to step into my shoes. He knows me better than i know myself ...plus He has many years of practice as a psychiatrist analyzing people.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 4:57:45 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		You know Saki I am sorry, I don't know why but I completely misread your post so in turn we were arguing the same point.  For some reason I read that you felt a Dom had to have been submissive in order to be a good Dom... not sure why I read it that way.  Again accept my apologies, I think we are on the same page.  

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 5:02:23 AM   
sakidorei


Posts: 65
Status: offline 		LittleWench ...
 
~laughing~ i do think we are on the same page ... i was thinking maybe i had missed your point as i thought you had taken exception to mine so after rereading a few times i just sorta figured i need to try to say it a little better.  In my book i think we are definitely on the same page so no worries ... hope you have an exceptional day!
 
~saki
Property of Master D.

_____________________________

Followers, do not backlead. Not only does it make leading more difficult, but it also makes it more difficult for the leader to avoid collisions.

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 5:26:03 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am wondering if you, as submissives, would agree that a dom can hardly understand what a Sub feels when they are dominated without having experenced atleast once.

sorry, but I disagree

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 5:32:33 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I am wondering if you, as submissives, would agree that a dom can hardly understand what a Sub feels when they are dominated without having experenced atleast once.

sorry, but I disagree


I disagree as well. You only need empathy for something, you don't need to actually have experienced the thing; you simply need to be aware on another point of view or feeling. The best is when there is synergy between the two; in D/s there is an energy exchange (or should be ideally) and that ultimately, is what bonds the two without either having to take on the role of the other.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 6:32:06 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I agree with IM and sexyone -  and disagree with the OP.
You can have a dominant who has submitted previously, but unless that person has empathy with their charge - all the experience in the world won't assist them.
 
the.dark.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 6:39:11 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I don't think a dominant needs to experience being a submissive to be a better dominant. How does being what they aren't make them a better submissive? The don't have the need and desire to experience things the way I do. Being a good dominant means listening, communicating and learning your submissive throughout.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 6:48:45 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		He has experienced but in a different manner, as a child being submissive/obedient at times to parents, relatives, teachers, older siblings. any military training  etc

so he does have some life experiences to draw from

< Message edited by Maya2001 -- 12/18/2007 6:49:33 AM >

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 7:13:15 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Submissiveideals

I am wondering if you, as submissives, would agree that a dom can hardly understand what a Sub feels when they are dominated without having experenced atleast once.

No, i do not agree with your statement.  Only i know what i feel when i experience something.  No one else, whether Dominant or submissive, is going to experience how i feel when i am Dominated the same way i do. 
 
He knows what i feel because i tell Him and show Him what i feel.  And, He understands that, perfectly, without having to experience being Dominated. 
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to Submissiveideals)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 7:35:03 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		even if the Dom in question was raised by a pack of wolves and never had contact with society, He or She would, indeed, still know what submitting to authority "feels" like.

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RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 7:39:26 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

even if the Dom in question was raised by a pack of wolves and never had contact with society, He or She would, indeed, still know what submitting to authority "feels" like.

That is very true Miss Beth, very true.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: From a Sub POV - 12/18/2007 7:50:49 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I can barley "submitt" at work.where they pay me to listen...lol. I know what sudmission looks like.and feels like....I have seen it in the eyes and actions of a woman. Thats gonna have to be good enough...:)

Jeff

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Profile   Post #: 20
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