RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/19/2007 8:51:40 AM

Crush

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I've replaced some lights with the compact fluorescent lights, but only in places that I expect as long term, pain in the ass, places.
My complaints with the fluorescent bulbs are:

A) Take too long to start up when you turn on the light.
Incandescent bulbs take a short time and the LED bulbs are near instantaneous. (Next time, check out the tail lights of a newer car that has both...usually incandescent in the tail lights and LEDs in the top "brake light" strip. LEDs are on noticably quicker than the incandescents.)

B) Eventual disposal
They have nasty things inside 'em, from mercury to low level radioactive material. And the ballast has to be made and disposed of as well. They are going to end up being hazardous material in disposal situations.

C) Incandescents could last much longer
It would mean retooling and rebuilding them, with fatter elements for example, but no reason to believe that an incandescent couldn't be built to last as long as a fluorescent. I've run incandescent bulbs at lower voltages and they definitely still give off light and, after 10 years, still work.

D) LEDs are better at color.
And in an array, can vary the color for you, something that neither fluorescents nor incandescents can do easily or as energy efficiently. We won't even talk about neon....

E) They flicker
Fluorescents flicker. 120 times a second, in the US power grid. Or, if high frequency bulbs are used, they make that electronic "hum." Flicker and hum affect some people very much, especially if they are using CRTs that have their own "flicker rate" as well.

Just a few thoughts on it, after having researched these things for the past 5 years.

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/19/2007 5:02:42 PM

NeedToUseYou

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General Reply:
I'm not so much a fan anymore of compact flourescent lights. We bought about 30 and changed all the incadescent bulbs to those. We already had some lighting using the big floursecent tubes, so switched to a 100% flourescent bulbs. They say on the package they are supposed to last for years. But we've had several burn out already in 6 months. We don't run them 24/7 either. The one in my office I do just leave on 24/7, and it blew already, but the rest aren't run more than a few hours a day.

Anyway, I think a class action suit is coming for these bulbs. About 15% of the bulbs I bought have blown in six months. They are supposed to last like 5 years or something.

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/19/2007 5:13:13 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I replaced all the bulbs in my house- [except decorator lights] I started witht he most used lights- then -in time completed it. I save $2-$3 a month- -it will pay for itself in 10 months. [3 of which are gone] [lowes has the best price]

I LOOOOOOOOOOVE these new bulbs!

Most of the local power companies have deals (go to their websites) where they'll give you internet coupons you can take to your local hardware store and get these things for a BUCK.

We had a local thing 2 years ago where the local hardware store had a gig going on that if you bought one pack of 60 watt bulbs (4 in a pack) of the incandescent bulbs....for each one you got a $1.00 scratch and play Washington State lotto thingy.

I bought 500 of the damn things (I own multiple properties)...cost me $500.00....got 2,000 60 watt bulbs.

I went down to my local bar, ordered several very nice doubles....made a HUUUUGE mess scratching those fuckers....ended up with 2,000 60 watt bulbs....gave a shitload of 'em away...won $2,105.00...deducting my original $500.00 (carry the 4, divide by 6....) and I had a FUCK load of incandescent bulbs....and $1,505.00 left over :):):)

(I was entirely okay with that).

And now you can get 200 watt incandescents that act like a 150 (it's never the same as the wattage on the label), cost like a 60...and last as long as....hmmmmm....as long as the time a meeting with my ex wife seems like.

(Which is a very very fucking long time).

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/19/2007 5:18:20 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LickMyAssBitch

please read my profile
Thanks and Happy Holidays

I read it- it has no mention of light bulbs

lol pa

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/19/2007 9:52:13 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LickMyAssBitch

please read my profile
Thanks and Happy Holidays

I read it- it has no mention of light bulbs

Errrm...Pa... School is out for holiday break...

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 8:34:06 AM

samboct

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PS 53

Be very careful with whose statistics you read on whether or not a wind turbine could save money (and energy.) Distributed power works very well. California had an initiative where they were very generous with subsidies for homeowners to install solar panels. Everyone bellyached that it was crazy- that the $6B giveaway (I'm pulling this off the top, feel free to google the Berkely study- if you can't find it, I'll find a link or my exact notes from the talk) was a waste of tax payers money. But in point of fact, it wound up saving money- because there was no need to run new power lines or add more generating capacity- it saved something like $4B- maybe more.

Possible issues with the above- problem is that the US doesn't do long haul power well at all, and I'm assuming that the UK does it better- I know Germany does. This accounted for a big chunk of the savings. Wind is a bit harder on the grid- (I'm assuming that you're on grid, and can sell excess power back to the utility) wind is pretty independent of peak power demands- solar lines up better. Any analysis that just looks at the energy requirements for building the wind turbine, and doesn't take into account all the potential savings is likely to be a bit slanted. Bear in mind that wind turbine components are cheap on a per kg basis- I suspect that even in the UK, the prices are about 4-8 euros/kg- which generally means that things can't be that energy intensive.

Utilities are a bit schizophrenic. Like any other company, they make more money by selling more product- i.e. electricity. Now we're trying to get them to cut back, and you wind up with some very dizzying spin out of these companies.

If you could afford it, and you've got a good steady breeze, going with your own wind turbine makes a lot of sense- at least from an environmental standpoint.

Crush-

Yup- you absolutely could go to a thicker element in an incandescent lightbulb- but it would need more current to glow- hence be even less energy efficient.

The biggest difference between LED and all the other technology is that LEDs are advancing quickly- while the other technologies are much more mature. One of the biggest problems for LEDs is business models- companies like selling products with a finite lifetime. LEDs last so long that they could be built into a fixture (if not overdriven) which makes the current lightbulb model problematic.

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 12/20/2007 8:36:14 AM >

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 8:59:35 AM

pahunkboy

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When watching Little House on THe Prairee- they have nice teeth. Well- many did not back then. The oil lights made smoke and eyes water.

YEars ago-when I was a kid- we wewre told to save energy. So everyone made their part- things seemed great. Well the power company had to raise rates cos they were not selling enough power. So we then were paying more for less.

I had to drive yesderday- ok- about 35 miles round trip. This to pick up an rx. It is controlled. The fact that it is controlled added to pollution. I wondered just how many things are done due to lawyers. How much pollution is caused cos one could be sued.... or investors- on CNBC how can an investor make money per the energy bill- per the farm bill. Any law or market event- and hords of suits are plotting to be corporate raiders.

It is astounding that Reagan was the good old days.

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 9:02:03 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LickMyAssBitch

please read my profile
Thanks and Happy Holidays

I read it- it has no mention of light bulbs

Errrm...Pa... School is out for holiday break...

Her profile is SO NOT me. I cant imagine anyone wanting the sceen she advertises for. But then each to their own I suppose.

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 9:04:32 AM

mhawk

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good old light bulbs being phased out but what i must say this just cuz on the station wagons,they didn't tkae them away they became mini vans and then suvs lol

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 10:06:52 AM

Politesub53

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Samboct, the current thinking here is that the cost of a decent system will be between £5,000/£10,000. The latter figure would more than pay my whole bill for ten years. There is no incentive for me to pay that much. Also they dont think that home generators here will produce enough spare power to sell it back to the grid.

That said, its not all bad, the government are planning to make use of the fact we are an island. Installation of offshore windfarms is being mentioned, including one called London Array which will be the worlds largest offshore site. This looks like being feasable if the intial cost can be made attractive to investors. Below is a link which gives some useful information on the idea.

http://www.cat.org.uk/information/catinfo.tmpl?command=search&db=catinfo.db&eqSKUdatarq=InfoSheet_DomesticWind

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 1:46:43 PM

samboct

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PS 53

That's sounds about right- micro wind is tough to justify because of siting costs. How steady the breeze is (time) and how variable it's strength is (less variation the better) are critical- and often this info doesn't exist. It's also true that the higher up the better (faster airflow- less turbulent) but this adds expense and can be unsightly.

In terms of your bill- well, that's why this technology often needs other incentives- it's competing with mature technology that's had lots of incentives for development and installation over the years. If everybody who could installed a wind plant and it proved to make additional large powerplants unnecessary- then economic incentives might be helpful- and save money in the long run.

Offshore makes a lot of sense- the breeze is steadier and more predictable. Again, with DC for power transmission, it makes it easier. There's also a nice size installation off the Faerores IIRC. People are still wrassling with the idea in this country- but the west coast is problematic- gets too deep too fast in most spots.

Sam

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RE: incadescentr lightbulb- to be phazed out - 12/20/2007 2:15:28 PM

Politesub53

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Wind power certainly seems a soloution for remote locations. Sooner or later technology may be able to provide everyone with a cheaper and cleaner alternative for our power sources.

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