RE: Gas Prices (Full Version)

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Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/22/2005 9:19:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Ford. It's a complicated problem, and health insurance has been a major headache for them. But gas mileage must have something to do with their problems. A Honda Accord gets about ten miles to the gallon more than a Ford Taurus (and it's a more comfortable car, too).

And I honestly do not believe that you get 51 miles to the gallon in your Ford Taurus driving 65-67 mph. The government doesn't test those vehicles at 90 mph. If you're really telling the truth, I think you should submit it to the Guiness Book of World Records or something, because your 1999 Taurus outperforms a VW Golf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I don't care what the Government says!!
I work with a guy that has a 2001 Chevy/Geo/Toyota it has a four cylinder engine and my car has a V6 engine.He said he gets 34 MPG and his wife has a 2004 Neon four cylinder engine and she gets 40 MPG.But they can't get the mileage I do because they can't drive that slow. Those were his words! He knows how I drive and I know how they drive.I set the cruise at 65-67 and they drive 70-90 mph on the highway.That is why they can't get the good mileage I do.
I could go on and on with examples.Most of the time poor gas mileage is because of someones poor driving habits.It is called being in control of your self.

As far as Ford gasping, that doesn't have much to do with gas mileage.Yes,it does play a part. It has more to do with the cost of doing business in the present state of our country.And cheap labor and lack of enviromental laws in other countries.Most of the parts have been made in other countries for years and just assembled here.In recent years all or most manafacturers have been moving out of the country to do business.But because of stock holder greed they build less expencive cars but the price keeps going up.So now they are all over priced junk.It doesn't matter what brand.Most of the parts are made in the same factories and assembled in another factory.
Now that they have been having the big sales in the past couple months they sold out of the 2005s before the 2006s came in.Price is the reason.They are all hurting including the foreign name brands.



The problem with todays cars and gas mileage is the engine is built wrong for gas mileage.Todays engines are high rpm horsepower engines.For good gas mileage we need low rpm torque engines.They put in overdrive transmissions that lower the rpms at highway speeds.When they do this it puts the engine in the torque rpm range.But they are a low torque engine.Torque is what accelerates the car and horsepower is what maintains speed.Torque is produced at low rpm and horsepower at high rpm.The closer you can get the horsepower and torque range together the better gas mileage you will get.And a low rpm torque engine will get better mileage in the city than a rpm horsepower engine.
I could make a big old Cadilac engine from the 70s get 30mpg.It is not hard to do.They got about 16-20 mpg back then in a big car.
I am asking you a serious question now.
Do you know why a 2005 car or truck pollutes less than say something from the 1970s?
I will not give you a hard time about this.But you are an enviromentalist so I am asking you.Again I will not give you a hard time.
Do you know why Diesel fuel costs as much or more than gasoline?
Anyone can answer.But it is directed to Lordandmaster.




subfever -> RE: Gas Prices (8/22/2005 9:20:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I don't have anything bad to say about your last post!
That is what makes the U.S. different then other countries.We have the freedom to be gluttonous piggies.In most countries it is not an option.
We can be what we want instead of what we are told to be.


Perhaps to a degree, but aren't you told to be a taxpayer? ... [;)]

No,I am not told to be a taxpayer! It is called blackmail and extortion.The reason I pay taxes is that I am not ready to die yet.That is what would happen when they take what is mine from me.I would take a few of them with me.



Well, I guess we both just have a different way of looking at things. It seems to me that they are taking something that is yours every year at tax time.




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/22/2005 9:24:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome


quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I don't have anything bad to say about your last post!
That is what makes the U.S. different then other countries.We have the freedom to be gluttonous piggies.In most countries it is not an option.
We can be what we want instead of what we are told to be.


Perhaps to a degree, but aren't you told to be a taxpayer? ... [;)]

No,I am not told to be a taxpayer! It is called blackmail and extortion.The reason I pay taxes is that I am not ready to die yet.That is what would happen when they take what is mine from me.I would take a few of them with me.



Well, I guess we both just have a different way of looking at things. It seems to me that they are taking something that is yours every year at tax time.


No,we don't disagree.I just took it a step further then what you were looking for.




subfever -> RE: Gas Prices (8/22/2005 9:52:29 PM)




quote:

Second - DesertRat, I wouldn't wish any extra financial burden on anyone...I don't know about you but I can't afford for gas to go any higher and still drive 5 days a week to classes 20+ minutes from home - and I definitely don't have a "gas guzzler."


I agree. Bob has shared some interesting observations, but I still believe that many working-class people would be hurt by extended gas prices over $3.00 per gallon.

quote:

Third - I haven't researched this but I've certainly heard more than once and believe that technology has existed for quite some time to make safer, much cheaper & environmentally friendly alternatives to gasoline - what's the hold-up????


I haven't researched this either, and I've also heard similiar stories. If they are true (and if I were a gambling man, I'd wager even money that they are) it would seem to me that the hold-up is simply that there's too much profit yet to be made in petroleum.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas Prices (8/22/2005 10:10:11 PM)

Well, first of all, if you've privately engineered your 1999 Taurus to get 51 MPG, that's not quite the same thing as saying that you have a 1999 Taurus which gets 51 MPG. If you've really been able to squeeze out 25 extra MPG out of your car, I'm very proud of you, but I have to wonder why you didn't mention this from the beginning.

At any rate, private citizens have been able to reach MPG levels over 200 by converting ordinary cars:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050814/ap_on_hi_te/hybrid_tinkerers

About your other questions: I didn't realize this was Quiz Show. Cars pollute less now than in the 1970's for one obvious reason: they're required to pollute less now than in the 1970's. Why does diesel cost as much as or more than gasoline? Because of the Marshallian Cross. Really, what are you getting at? If you have some larger point to make, I'd prefer to hear it--rather than playing guessing games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

The problem with todays cars and gas mileage is the engine is built wrong for gas mileage.Todays engines are high rpm horsepower engines.For good gas mileage we need low rpm torque engines.They put in overdrive transmissions that lower the rpms at highway speeds.When they do this it puts the engine in the torque rpm range.But they are a low torque engine.Torque is what accelerates the car and horsepower is what maintains speed.Torque is produced at low rpm and horsepower at high rpm.The closer you can get the horsepower and torque range together the better gas mileage you will get.And a low rpm torque engine will get better mileage in the city than a rpm horsepower engine.
I could make a big old Cadilac engine from the 70s get 30mpg.It is not hard to do.They got about 16-20 mpg back then in a big car.
I am asking you a serious question now.
Do you know why a 2005 car or truck pollutes less than say something from the 1970s?
I will not give you a hard time about this.But you are an enviromentalist so I am asking you.Again I will not give you a hard time.
Do you know why Diesel fuel costs as much or more than gasoline?
Anyone can answer.But it is directed to Lordandmaster.





Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 7:24:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, first of all, if you've privately engineered your 1999 Taurus to get 51 MPG, that's not quite the same thing as saying that you have a 1999 Taurus which gets 51 MPG. If you've really been able to squeeze out 25 extra MPG out of your car, I'm very proud of you, but I have to wonder why you didn't mention this from the beginning.

At any rate, private citizens have been able to reach MPG levels over 200 by converting ordinary cars:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050814/ap_on_hi_te/hybrid_tinkerers

About your other questions: I didn't realize this was Quiz Show. Cars pollute less now than in the 1970's for one obvious reason: they're required to pollute less now than in the 1970's. Why does diesel cost as much as or more than gasoline? Because of the Marshallian Cross. Really, what are you getting at? If you have some larger point to make, I'd prefer to hear it--rather than playing guessing games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

The problem with todays cars and gas mileage is the engine is built wrong for gas mileage.Todays engines are high rpm horsepower engines.For good gas mileage we need low rpm torque engines.They put in overdrive transmissions that lower the rpms at highway speeds.When they do this it puts the engine in the torque rpm range.But they are a low torque engine.Torque is what accelerates the car and horsepower is what maintains speed.Torque is produced at low rpm and horsepower at high rpm.The closer you can get the horsepower and torque range together the better gas mileage you will get.And a low rpm torque engine will get better mileage in the city than a rpm horsepower engine.
I could make a big old Cadilac engine from the 70s get 30mpg.It is not hard to do.They got about 16-20 mpg back then in a big car.
I am asking you a serious question now.
Do you know why a 2005 car or truck pollutes less than say something from the 1970s?
I will not give you a hard time about this.But you are an enviromentalist so I am asking you.Again I will not give you a hard time.
Do you know why Diesel fuel costs as much or more than gasoline?
Anyone can answer.But it is directed to Lordandmaster.



I didn't change anything on my car.

I didn't want it to be a quiz show.I thought you would know the answers.
Yes,you are correct.Even more so than you think. Todays engines pollute slightly less than older engines because of computerized fuel injection.Over all they still pollute almost as much as the older engines.But the reason why they pass the emissions test is the catolitic converter and the fresh air that is either pumped,or sucked into the catolitic converter.They dilute the exhaust with fresh air and measure the results coming out the tailpipe in parts per million.And the reason for this is as you said they are required to pollute less. If an older car gets 20 mpg and a newer car gets 20 mpg they use the same amount of gas and pollute pretty much the same.They can reburn the exhaust to burn the fuel that didn't burn but the engine still pollutes the same.

The reason why Diesel costs as much or more than gasoline is greed. In the process of refining crude into gasoline the first refind fuel is Kerosene.Then I can't remember the exact order because I am always going on memory. Not something I read yesterday but years ago. Kerosene,Jet fuel,home heating oil,Diesel fuel,gasoline,white gas like is used in Colemen stoves and lanterns.So it costs less to produce Diesel fuel and the reason why they don't sell it for less money is people would run more Diesel cars and pickups and less need for Gasoline cars and pickups.Plus they add a lot of additives to gasoline to make it pollute less.So that drives up the cost of Gasoline.And as long as Gasoline is inflated then they can inflate Diesel fuel.All for greed and the lack of people pushing for the truth and lower cost fuel.Instead people push for fuel alternatives.And that allowes for them to keep the prices up.

I wanted to add that when I said poor driving habits I didn't mean poor driving.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 11:08:41 AM)

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm frankly never going to believe that you get 51 miles to the gallon in an ordinary 1999 Ford Taurus under ANY circumstances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I didn't change anything on my car.





DesertRat -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 11:17:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm frankly never going to believe that you get 51 miles to the gallon in an ordinary 1999 Ford Taurus under ANY circumstances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I didn't change anything on my car.




I don't believe that either. 51km/gal would be possible.

Bob




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 8:35:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm frankly never going to believe that you get 51 miles to the gallon in an ordinary 1999 Ford Taurus under ANY circumstances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I didn't change anything on my car.



I don't care if you believe me or not.

You didn't say anything about the important points I made because you are stuck on my car.My car is not important.What is important is all the cars polluting and you are an enviromentalist that belongs to the Green party.




Taik -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 8:49:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissA

Second - DesertRat, I wouldn't wish any extra financial burden on anyone...I don't know about you but I can't afford for gas to go any higher and still drive 5 days a week to classes 20+ minutes from home - and I definitely don't have a "gas guzzler."

Third - I haven't researched this but I've certainly heard more than once and believe that technology has existed for quite some time to make safer, much cheaper & environmentally friendly alternatives to gasoline - what's the hold-up????

~Ms. A~


Second comment: It wouldn't be such an issue if citys would develop reliable and decent mass transit, but instead they squable over funding with thier state and the fed's. Over here (Germany) the mass transit is great and people do without owning a car a lot of the time... or at the least they own a scooter or bicycle. You can also partially blame the higher prices on so many consumer products in America sucking up more of your pay check, the dollar does not go as far as it used to in the US. I can get all my grocerys here for half the price of the same thing in the US, and thats After the exchange rate.

Third Comment: Most of the technologys (not all) were bought up by the gas company's... it's one consperacy theory you can actualle belive and check the patents yourself *wink*




Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 8:53:01 PM)

Pollution from cars is an important problem whether I'm an environmentalist or not.

Have I missed some profound point of yours? I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

What is important is all the cars polluting and you are an enviromentalist that belongs to the Green party.





Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 8:55:54 PM)

Having gone to the grocery store many times both in the United States and in Germany, I have to say I find this even harder to believe than the other guy's 51 MPG in his Ford Taurus. Groceries are so cheap in the U.S. that some of our prices match the Third World.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taik

I can get all my grocerys here for half the price of the same thing in the US, and thats After the exchange rate.





Sirjazzalot1966 -> RE: Gas Prices (8/23/2005 9:14:04 PM)

Today's price here in San Antonio is $2.50-$2.55 a gallon (unleaded).




onceburned -> RE: Gas Prices (8/24/2005 1:01:58 PM)

$2.38 in Des Moines .... w00t!

[sm=tongue.gif]

BTW, I have to agree with LAM on food prices. If there is anything that the U.S. will continue to excel in it is the mass production of food. And abundant surplus keeps the price low.




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/24/2005 8:49:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Pollution from cars is an important problem whether I'm an environmentalist or not.

Have I missed some profound point of yours? I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

What is important is all the cars polluting and you are an enviromentalist that belongs to the Green party.



Yes!!!!

And my car gets 51 mpg because of the way I drive,AC turned off and a complete tune up.When most people tune up their cars they just tune the engine.I tuned up the complete car. Example, cars are not lined up at the factory they are just thrown together at the factory.They have a minimum and maximum alignment specs and they are somewhere in between from the factory on a new car.When you take a car to a garage and have it lined up they do the same thing.They are working on a flat rate for the alignment not by the hour so they don't try and get it perfect just in between the min. and max. specs.My car is lined up perfect.The closer to perfect the better tire wear you will have and better gas mileage.
I did many things like this.I didn't change the car.I made it better.I did some things that many people do.I just did it better then most people do or have done for them.My car is better than when it came off the assembly line.Here in Maine you only need the AC turned on for about two months out of a year.That makes a big difference.My last car didn't have AC.
I'm telling you this because you always try to make me look bad.I might not post again because of this.You don't like it when someone knows something that you don't and you try to discredit them.I am sick of it!




Lordandmaster -> RE: Gas Prices (8/24/2005 9:29:07 PM)

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I'm saying that I don't believe you get 51 MPG in your Ford Taurus. And I still don't. You're the only person who knows whether it's true.

Is there really anything more to say about this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I'm telling you this because you always try to make me look bad.I might not post again because of this.You don't like it when someone knows something that you don't and you try to discredit them.I am sick of it!





DesertRat -> RE: Gas Prices (8/24/2005 10:58:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I'm saying that I don't believe you get 51 MPG in your Ford Taurus. And I still don't. You're the only person who knows whether it's true.

Is there really anything more to say about this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Youtalkingtome

I'm telling you this because you always try to make me look bad.I might not post again because of this.You don't like it when someone knows something that you don't and you try to discredit them.I am sick of it!




Hi guys! I would let the Taurus mileage debate rest for now and just say I am looking for replicability. I will snoop around a bit and see if I can find any other Tauruses getting similar mileage. If I find some getting mpg in the 40s, I would not consider 51 to be too outlandish. If I don't find any that are even breaking out of the 30s...well, you know.

I want to throw out some other thoughts. One reason (actually, a set of reasons) why cars pollute less, in addition to those already mentioned, is improvements in combustion. A lot of research on combustion chamber size, chamber shape, and valve placement has resulted in engines that burn the mixture more efficiently. Fuel injection has played a part in this mixture improvement, too. The air/fuel mixture is now a lot less 'lumpy' than it used to be...or in some cases, deliberately lumpy, but in a very controlled way--all to improve the burning of the fuel in the cylinder.

Bob




UtopianRanger -> RE: Gas Prices (8/25/2005 1:33:37 AM)

quote:

I'm telling you this because you always try to make me look bad.I might not post again because of this.You don't like it when someone knows something that you don't and you try to discredit them.I am sick of it!



Say Talkingtome......


I think you should relax and not get quite so uptite. Personally, I don't think he was taking a shot at you - I just think he was speaking his mind when you said 51 mpg on a Ford Tarus. I mean... even my eyebrows raised after reading that. But now that you've further explained your intial post, I have a better understanding of where your coming from - It's still a little hard to believe 51 mpg, though.

As far as not ever posting again because one guy seems to always disagree with you? Hell.... that would make me wanna post even more... HAR! I, personally, enjoy your posts and think you should hang in there.


- The Ranger




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Gas Prices (8/25/2005 7:53:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

I'm telling you this because you always try to make me look bad.I might not post again because of this.You don't like it when someone knows something that you don't and you try to discredit them.I am sick of it!



Say Talkingtome......


I think you should relax and not get quite so uptite. Personally, I don't think he was taking a shot at you - I just think he was speaking his mind when you said 51 mpg on a Ford Tarus. I mean... even my eyebrows raised after reading that. But now that you've further explained your intial post, I have a better understanding of where your coming from - It's still a little hard to believe 51 mpg, though.

As far as not ever posting again because one guy seems to always disagree with you? Hell.... that would make me wanna post even more... HAR! I, personally, enjoy your posts and think you should hang in there.


- The Ranger

Thank you Ranger!
Yeah, As you can see it wasn't this thread. It happens most of the time.
I doubt if DesertRat will ever find another Taurus getting the mileage I do because their is not another person on this planet like me.I strive to be different than most people.Now I know their are a few people that like to be different but what are the chances that they would do all of the things I did to my Taurus? Slim and none!
Another thing is the lack of traffic up here.Most people live in or near a city.So they have traffic jams and bumper to bumper traffic on the high way.It isn't like that here.I might get into stop and go traffic on the highway once or twice a year.But we do have draw backs.I don't get that great of mileage in the winter.We have to let the cars warm up before we can drive.When it gets really cold we have to let them run at an idle for a half hour.When that happens the mileage goes down hill fast.
My point is even if I detailed it all out they wouldn't understand.And because of that they still wouldn't believe me.I don't care if they believe me.The thing is those type of comments make me look like a liar.And I am one of the most honest people on the planet.That is why it upsets me so much.
I read many posts and don't make comments.Once in a while I do.Most of the time that I do is when I can say something that is not being said that should be said.My purpose here is to read,learn and try to find my mate for life.I doubt that will happen but when some people make me look bad it makes my chances even smaller.




DesertRat -> RE: Gas Prices (8/25/2005 8:10:44 AM)

Yes, I doubt if another will be found. That was my point. Should be able to find some in the 40 mpg range, though. How often do you calculate your mileage?

Good news! The price of a barrel of oil got closer to 70 bucks today.

Bob




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