RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (Full Version)

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Vendaval -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/21/2007 8:31:27 PM)

Thank you to everyone for their comments.  The example of repairing cars brought to mind one of my fondest examples of two persons communicating and cooperating.
 
My mother is very skilled at reading and interpreting data and diagrams.  My step-father (may he rest in peace), was a very skilled mechanic.  Together they combined their skills to repair and rebuild many a vehicle that was either sold at a below market price to a working class family or passed along to one of the grandchildren, cousins, etc.  A great example of working together and problem solving!




juliaoceania -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/21/2007 8:47:13 PM)

quote:

Neither I or any other strong, intelligent woman that I know need validation from anyone. What we do need, is a partner that can communicate verbally, non-verbally, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, physically, and in every way that is important to the success of a relationship for those two individuals.



Mind you, I do not claim to be strong, and my claim to intelligence is externally validated[:D], so with that in mind I will just say that there is nothing wrong with a little validation between significant others... who else will validate us? I love the mutual appreciation society in our relationship... but that is just how I feel about it.

DParadox made rather sexist assumptions true, my Daddy does not like sports, enjoys many of the same things as myself, and loves intellectual discourse. Now we have seperate interests, but that is a GOOD thing. Daddy doesn't much care for women who sit around and simper at him "Yer so smart!"... He has told me that sort of behavior is a hard limit for him




Griswold -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/21/2007 9:58:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

From Men's Health
Dave Zinczenko's Myseries of the Sexes Explained
 
Why Men Don't Talk

Posted Mon, Dec 17, 2007, 9:32 am PST

" As the editor of the biggest men's magazine in the world, I am privy to something many women rarely hear - straightforward, uninhibited guy talk.

Don't be so shocked - guys do actually talk, and not just about Tom Brady's quarterback rating. Most women think their man is the strong, silent type (or maybe the oblivious, silent type), and they wonder why he doesn't share his feelings.

But here's the truth: Men do want to open up, about their hopes, their fears, and their passions. Yet put him alone in a room with you, and he often turns into a Sphinx. Why can't he take his eyes off the TV and talk about the state of the relationship, or the finances, or, heck, the backyard landscaping? Why in the world can't he just summarize his day for 10 minutes?

In fact, one in five women say that they typically fight about a man's lack of verbal interaction, and 30 percent of men say their failure to communicate is the source of major conflict in the relationship. Why is it this way?

Here's one answer: Because even men who have feelings to share don't always feel comfortable sharing them with their partner. These are some of the reasons why some men often prefer to zip it, rather than delivering the goods:

Guys Are A Little Intimidated
No question, women are expert communicators. They throw questions like Oprah after her third cup of coffee; they're connecting on all cylinders. And like the divine Ms. W, women bring a lot of skill to their game: A special awareness of the people-scape around them, a keen set of emotions keyed to that awareness, and a rich vocabulary they use to talk about anything at anytime.

And they're always practicing their Q&A skills on their many friends, so they're in top talk mode all the time. Men know this. And they also know that more than one-third of women say that men simply can't relate and don't understand women. The result: Men are afraid of saying too much, because saying the wrong thing may get them into more trouble than Lindsay Lohan as a designated driver.

Guys Need To Decompress
Woman's view: When a man walks in the door, he ought to cough up some of the details about his day. After all, it's been 10 hours since they've communicated, not counting the two IMs, three voice mails, and one actual mid-day conversation.
Man's view: Can I please make a beeline to the bathroom? When men reach home, it's like those ultra-marathoners staggering across the finish line in Death Valley. The last thing they want to do is discuss how bright the sunlight was, and how scarce the water stops were.

Further up on his want-to-do list after arriving home: 14 percent of men want to check email, 12 percent are looking for a little private time in the bathroom, and 10 percent simply want to eat dinner. The common theme here: After they've spent a day serving the needs of others, they want to take care of themselves a little.

So when a man is hit with a demand for conversation so closely after returning from the stressful environment of work, he has only one gear left to shift into, and sometimes it's reverse. He's retreat, retreat, retreat.

Guys Are More Comfortable With Actions Than Feelings
Rather than talking about how he "feels," often a man would rather express his love by changing her oil, or bringing home a flower, or relinquishing control of the remote.

And when men do talk, they'd prefer to talk about actions rather than emotions. For instance, a lot of guys would choose to express their long-range faith in a relationship by talking about next summer's vacation plans, not by launching into a soliloquy about undying love.

Both conversations can mean the same thing (that he plans on sticking around); he just prefers to say it with plane tickets, rather than poetry. It's one of the reasons men are more comfortable talking at work (the practical universe) than they are at home (the castle that emotion built). But you can bring out his great communicator by making him feel more like he's operating in work mode, even when the topic at hand is your love life. Here's an incredible article, "The Home Office," that shows how he can use his best office skills for great success at home.

Guys Don't Want To Be Put On The Spot
When men talk less and women want more, the scenario can escalate. Like when the bad cop is pummeling the reluctant witness, more silence equals more questions. A full 65 percent of men we surveyed recently told us they don't want their partners to ask them more questions about themselves.

It's clear that some men are just plain tired of feeling like they're on the witness stand. They're not necessarily hiding anything; many guys simply prefer not to have to relate confusing feelings that they may not even understand themselves.

An age-old tactic can make things better: Back off a little, give him room to operate in a conversation, and he's more likely to open up. "

http://health.yahoo.com/experts/menlovesex/73762/why-men-don-t-talk/


GAWWWWD that was BORING!!!!!

Men love women.

Men aren't stupid.

Feelings.  Comfort levels.  Cheeriness.

Get fucking over it.

We love the way you feel.

You smell good.

You dress better than us.

You look fucking awesome.

You read way the fuck too many magazines that tell you what to think.

We don't think that way.

(We will never understand why you do).

(Think that way...that is).

You put our socks away.

(We love the fact that you do).

(We don't understand why the fuck you bitch about it).

You smell good.

(Did I mention the fact that you smell good?).

You smell really good.

(And then there's that smell thing).....

So anyway....as I was saying....









sexyred1 -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 6:10:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Neither I or any other strong, intelligent woman that I know need validation from anyone. What we do need, is a partner that can communicate verbally, non-verbally, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, physically, and in every way that is important to the success of a relationship for those two individuals.



Mind you, I do not claim to be strong, and my claim to intelligence is externally validated[:D], so with that in mind I will just say that there is nothing wrong with a little validation between significant others... who else will validate us? I love the mutual appreciation society in our relationship... but that is just how I feel about it.

DParadox made rather sexist assumptions true, my Daddy does not like sports, enjoys many of the same things as myself, and loves intellectual discourse. Now we have seperate interests, but that is a GOOD thing. Daddy doesn't much care for women who sit around and simper at him "Yer so smart!"... He has told me that sort of behavior is a hard limit for him


Hi julia, yes I like validation in the form of true appreciation and compliments, that kind of thing. And there is nothing wrong with mutual validation between partners, it is healthy and supportive.

What I meant by not needing validation was the premise that he said that women need to have constant verbal communication as opposed to the unspoken kind, in order to feel validated and that if we would just tune into our partners unspoken needs, we would not be asking for more vocal expressions. I found that to be a bit much.

And it is great to have mutual as well as separate interests; I like sharing and learning about a partners likes as well as sharing mine.




NorthernGent -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 6:23:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Men love women.



Absolutely correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

You dress better than us.



Not this man. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

You put our socks away.



Not this man; the last woman who put my socks away was my Mother, when I was about 9 years old.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

You smell good.



Absolutely correct; they taste even better. Were there any justice in this world, they'd grow on trees, so we could pick them off, and taste/smell at our leisure.




Padriag -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 6:25:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

From Men's Health
Dave Zinczenko's Myseries of the Sexes Explained
 
Why Men Don't Talk

Eh... doesn't really describe me at all.  I'll grant you, it does describe many guys I know.  But as for me, I'm Irish... the problem isn't getting me to talk... its getting me to shut up!  LOL




hands0n0knees -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 6:48:47 AM)

So, let me play the iconoclast.

I am a man who often finds it hard to talk about my feelings.  The reason for this is similar to one mentioned in the article; I am indeed intimidated by women when this subject comes emerges in the conversation.  But, this is not for the reason the arrogant 'journalist' assumes: some of us really don't leak uncontrolled emotion from every pore at the sound of that vacuous syllable, 'love.'  I don't know if my Stoicism is due to my genitals being outside of my body -- traditionally it has been considered 'masculine,' although, of course, people of either sex can have it -- but I find it in common with my male friends and completely incomprehensible to (and, unfortunately, aggravating for) my female lovers.  I try to avoid saying 'I love you' as much as possible.  Not only is it only the most obvious item of cultural artifice in language, affected in definition by its dominance in western culture for centuries, but it is also often not anything like what I'm feeling.  I enjoy my current lover's company a great deal, and I have affection for her; but I am never overcome, never brought to tears, and when I'm sitting in quiet contemplation, the honest answer to 'what are you thinking?' is rarely 'you.'

This all sounds horrifying, doesn't it?  Makes me sound like a damaged psyche.  But I am quite happy, quite comfortable, quite optimistic.  But, I happen to live in a culture that currently values 'feminine' (again, I don't mean to force every woman into this definition) traits over traditionally masculine ones.  And I know I'm far from alone.  The reception I have received when I have discussed this with women convinces me that it's a very good idea that I keep it to myself in the future.




Level -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 6:55:36 AM)

quote:

You smell good.

You look fucking awesome.


It's true, ladies!




kittinSol -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 7:01:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

Men love women.

Men aren't stupid.

Feelings.  Comfort levels.  Cheeriness.

Get fucking over it.

We love the way you feel.

You smell good.

You dress better than us.

You look fucking awesome.

You read way the fuck too many magazines that tell you what to think.

We don't think that way.

(We will never understand why you do).

(Think that way...that is).

You put our socks away.

(We love the fact that you do).

(We don't understand why the fuck you bitch about it).

You smell good.

(Did I mention the fact that you smell good?).

You smell really good.

(And then there's that smell thing).....

So anyway....as I was saying....



I thought that was very lovely and poetic, Grisworld. Thank you.




Aswad -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 7:09:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

(right, like perception in what a poster is trying to say, which is as equally difficult to discern as it would be if someone was not communicating clearly with someone in person).


It's always harder to get the tone right online.

quote:

(depends, I am more of a cultural arts girl myself, and I never had to dump anyone because of sports addiction or tool addiction.)


Point being... if you actually like a guy enough to hook up with him, are you going to go dumping him instead of taking the extra effort to communicate with him in a way that will connect? I hate golf. I have too many thumbs to worry about sorts of wood. And I don't watch football. To get to know me, you need to talk, and occasionally go out to take a walk while talking, and to give me a bit of time and space to myself as well. I'm worth it to some, and not to others. That will depend on, among other things, how well they like talking, walking and alone time (or, at least, quiet time). Other guys will have other things that work for them. And, just as we have to adapt to our woman in order for the relationship to work, she has to adapt to her man in order for it to work.

quote:

(some people do care for fashion and do not consider it crap, even some men care about how their women look and vice versa. Plus, I was being somewhat facetious relative to the tools vs. nails quote, but whatever again..)


Yes, and some people care about golf. I couldn't care less about golf or fashion. I do care how my woman looks, but my tastes have not been fashionable in the course of my life so far. I want her to look good, not look fashionable. Fortunately, her tastes are congruent to mine in this regard, so it all works out nicely. I get that you were adding a bit of levity to your post, and my reply was a poor attempt at responding in kind.

quote:

(it was sexist to assume women needed validation from men via verbal communication but you forgot to quote that part)


I was talking about the part about participating in a supporting role, which you seemed to take as sexist. The validation bit is a hairball I'm not touching, as I've seen both kinds among both genders.

quote:

(no, we like having our  hair brushed)


Yet, it's a passive role, closely analogous to handing over tools.

quote:

(feminism does not mean that, you interpreted it to mean that)


Incorrect. I do not interpret it to mean that. The main feminist organizations around here do.

quote:

I agree with most of what you said, although you misinterpreted my TONE, but whatever....


My apologies; tone is not always easy to tell in writing. You sounded like the rabid girls that call themselves feminists around where I live. Which was not the case, as you say. Let's move on.

quote:

You neglected to address the point of my post which was that the poster was assuming that women sought out verbal communication as a way to be validated, which they, at least I,  do not.


Again, that's a hairball. One of those things where, no matter what I say, if I speak my mind, or try to guess at what's in yours, I'll be crucified for it. Since I'm not all that eager for that, I'll leave it. What you do or do not, I'll take your word for, seeing as this is on the net and all, but I do not think you represent all women in that regard, at least.

Health,
al-Aswad.




pahunkboy -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 7:16:53 AM)

Ok- I lived with a guy 7 years. Separate bedrooms.  We went 6 months with out talking. It was quite easy. Worked different shifts.  He used the apartement to crash- shtt-shwer and shave then worked or went to the fire compamy. I am a home body.

His 1/2 the rent would be on the counter. Not talking was much better then fighting.  the fights were juvenile.  mean too.  [on both ends]




juliaoceania -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/22/2007 7:24:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad



quote:

(it was sexist to assume women needed validation from men via verbal communication but you forgot to quote that part)


I was talking about the part about participating in a supporting role, which you seemed to take as sexist. The validation bit is a hairball I'm not touching, as I've seen both kinds among both genders.


quote:

(feminism does not mean that, you interpreted it to mean that)


Incorrect. I do not interpret it to mean that. The main feminist organizations around here do.

quote:

I agree with most of what you said, although you misinterpreted my TONE, but whatever....


My apologies; tone is not always easy to tell in writing. You sounded like the rabid girls that call themselves feminists around where I live. Which was not the case, as you say. Let's move on.

quote:

You neglected to address the point of my post which was that the poster was assuming that women sought out verbal communication as a way to be validated, which they, at least I,  do not.


Again, that's a hairball. One of those things where, no matter what I say, if I speak my mind, or try to guess at what's in yours, I'll be crucified for it. Since I'm not all that eager for that, I'll leave it. What you do or do not, I'll take your word for, seeing as this is on the net and all, but I do not think you represent all women in that regard, at least.

Health,
al-Aswad.



I agree with you, I think women seek validation, and some ways we do this is through communication.

I think men seek validation too, and if they do not get it they often clam up.

I think when a relationship works the best is when both partners can express their needs to be validated and then their partner does that for them. There is nothing wrong with building your partner up.




Vendaval -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 6:15:50 PM)

Is that before or after 3 cups of coffee?  [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

From Men's Health
Dave Zinczenko's Myseries of the Sexes Explained
 
Why Men Don't Talk

Eh... doesn't really describe me at all.  I'll grant you, it does describe many guys I know.  But as for me, I'm Irish... the problem isn't getting me to talk... its getting me to shut up!  LOL




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 6:22:00 PM)

Men don’t talk because women don’t listen, so you kind of give up.[:D]




juliaoceania -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 7:32:37 PM)

quote:

Hi julia, yes I like validation in the form of true appreciation and compliments, that kind of thing. And there is nothing wrong with mutual validation between partners, it is healthy and supportive.

What I meant by not needing validation was the premise that he said that women need to have constant verbal communication as opposed to the unspoken kind, in order to feel validated and that if we would just tune into our partners unspoken needs, we would not be asking for more vocal expressions. I found that to be a bit much.

And it is great to have mutual as well as separate interests; I like sharing and learning about a partners likes as well as sharing mine.


I suppose for me, I need verbal validation. I love to talk. And when he is uncommunicative (and when he is in pain from his elbow issue he sometimes does not feel like talking all day) it leaves me feeling somewhat cranky after a couple of days of this... so I suppose I see how I need verbal validation... but men need validation too... it is kinda human in my mind.

I am only one woman though




dcnovice -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 8:01:33 PM)

quote:

He's watching football games? 


Football is the one with the brown, pointy ball, right?




LadyHibiscus -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 9:40:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well I sometimes wonder if anyone thinks like I do.  I really like to know someone deeply.  That is my ultimate hope.  I want the intimacy that comes along with that sort of revelation.


AND ...Hot Weasle Sex

Jeff


Jeff is right again.

I think I am a Secret Guy.  With enormous norks. 




Padriag -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/23/2007 9:42:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Is that before or after 3 cups of coffee?  [:D]

Depends on whether they were Irish coffees or not. [;)]




Termyn8or -> RE: "Why Men Don't Talk" - from Men's Health (12/24/2007 1:11:39 PM)

Everyone seems to miss the point consistently.

MEN DON'T TALK BECAUSE WE HAVE LEARNED TO KEEP OUR F__ING MOUTH SHUT.

Let the Women talk. As long as I bring home the money, it's her job to hang herself with her own words, and I will be watching.

T




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