Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Is professional domination legal?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Is professional domination legal? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:26:50 PM   
dsubmissiveman


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
Status: offline 		Ron(ne),

What expense/receipt am I going to forward when there is no receipt, vague description of service, registered business name and amount?

The whole point is that I forward a receipt and they do their part in accounting of the expense.  I don't have to talk about the merits of the expense nor do they have to ask me about the value added (from a corporate perspective) of the cost.

The whole point of asking on this board was for some clarification.  Isn't that what a discussion board is for anyways?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:30:29 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You want someone to write you up a reciept on a waitress check, I think you can get that (at reasonable cost, ProDommes are not communist, here). 

Salad tossing instruction .......................500.00
documentation fee..................................50.00
total                                                     550.00

Ron(ne)



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:36:09 PM   
dsubmissiveman


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
Status: offline 		Ron(ne),

I would take the receipt as long as it meet the conditions set out above along with contact info the registered business owner, as most receipts include.

Although, why is it so hard for you to understand the concept that a registered business should be able to generate a receipt on request?  I have been dealing with all kinds of legal business my whole life, and never had the difficulty of getting a receipt until now, which make me question the legitimacy of a business.  Wouldn't you question a business that did not provide you with a receipt?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:42:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		for those willing to do that, you are set, ask them, if they don't they fucking don't, legal/shmeagal.  I have been to many boutique businesses that have a little shit breather  printed blue cash register receipt  that I put on expenses.

Until recently, Burger King, shoe repair places, delis..............

this is farfetched. A registered business (or unregister one) has no fucking duty to receipt you.

I have wrote checks many times, no reciept or; 'do you want a receipt?' and I say no, my cashed check is my reciept... good enough for the IRS.

Ron  

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/20/2007 1:44:12 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:44:44 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Holy cow...don't go if you don't like it!  Can we end pro domme bashing thread #45549493939393 now please?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:46:46 PM   
dsubmissiveman


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
Status: offline 		Ron(ne),

Well, unfortunately the accounting department won't accpet my cheque made out to the business.  They need a bit more than that. 

The ones that have refused to provided a receipt, I simply resisted.  There are quite a few establishments so I will continue my search to find one that will accomodate me.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:49:09 PM   
dsubmissiveman


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Holy cow...don't go if you don't like it!  Can we end pro domme bashing thread #45549493939393 now please?


Holy cow..........when did I start bashing pro dommes?  I simply asked if the service they provided was legal if they are unwilling to accept credit and/or issue a receipt?  If somebody asked "Is prostitution legal", would they be accused of bashing prostitues?  I mean, if people can't ask questions, what is the point of this board?

< Message edited by dsubmissiveman -- 12/20/2007 1:52:23 PM >

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 1:57:04 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainsandFreedom
In other words, pro-domination may be quasi-leagal, but no paper-trail is downright black market. It just doesnt make good bussiness sense, unless you already know your you'd be shut down anyways if you make the attention of a court.


Perhaps you can suggest some way for pro dominant and her place of business be fully licensed so that we can establish a paper trail.  There are health department regulations for piercing and tattoo parlors, hair salons, nail salons and all sorts of other personal service businesses and the practitioners all have to have up-to-date professional certification and must pass health code inspections to be able to stay in business. 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no place on the North American continent where any licensing, certification or other regulations exist that recognize pro domination.  If you're going to label an industry "blackmarket" because we're in a legal limbo, that's fine, but you might also acknowledge that there is no institutional framework that allows us any other avenue for doing business.  

You may also want to think about what would be necessary for a civic authority to establish before declaring a BDSM-oriented business to be fully licenced and legal, namely, acknowledging that it is legal for one individual to consent to incurring bodily damage at the hands of another person and for that type of agreed-upon (negotiated) bodily damage to not be grounds for a personal injury lawsuit at a later date.  There are no regulations or legal recognitions in place for such consensual activities between two non-paying adults, but I'm sure civic, state and federal authorities can overlook those minor details for the greater social good of keeping a tiny subset of sex workers from continuing to be ghettoized and forced to remain in a legal gray zone. 

I'm eager to hear your suggestions for how this can all be managed.  I'm so tired of being a blackmarket sex worker.  I want to be upstanding like you.

(in reply to ChainsandFreedom)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 2:09:21 PM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not a tax pro, but I have taken clients to strip joints and expensed the costs to the company.  They were of course well aware of what was being done and in fact the only reason I was there with clients was because the company wanted it that way.  These bills were later of course used for tax deductions by the company.

In the USA there is a strict criteria for the deduction of entertainment by the IRS.  If you're able to meet that criteria, dinner, drinks and a visit to the local nudie bar are all deductable.

As for the legality of professional domination, the short answer is yes...in theory.  Where trouble can be come however is in the area of striking another person.  Outside of sanctioned things like boxing, martial arts and the like, anytime anyone strikes another person in the USA, whether mutually agreed upon or not, you are opening yourself to a potential problem.  For the most part the police just avoid it all, but you cannot discount the fact that they don't have to.  The same rules could apply to private play parties where no money whatsoever changes hands.  I am aware of no locality in the USA where the laws on assault have any wording indicating that BDSM activities are exempt.

You can tell your client to dress like a six year old and squawk like a chicken, you can tell him to crawl around like a snake and kiss your shoes, you can tell him to do all kinds of things and if he agrees you are fine  but anytime you smack a face or paddle a rump, under any circumstances, you can be at risk with the law.....

(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 2:30:37 PM   
Casseopia


Posts: 76
Joined: 11/27/2007
From: Monte Serreno, California
Status: offline 		Fast Reply:

Is it legal? depends on the state, blah blah

I'm still having trouble fathoming the nads it takes to expense a pro domme session and then complain that youre not getting a recipt for getting your jollies so you can have your company pay for it

(in reply to SolangeRichards)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 2:34:42 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Two things may be playing a big factor here.

She can accept a donation or tribute.  She cannot take money, and she cannot have sexual intercourse.
That makes it very difficult for most pros to keep it legal.
Our state has 50 or more sex crimes.  I am pretty sure that this would fall under one of them even if there were no sexual content involved.
That is why she could not give you a receipt.  Why would you want a receipt anyway?

I would be suspicious at that point myself.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 2:35:56 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SolangeRichards

I'm not a tax pro, but I have taken clients to strip joints and expensed the costs to the company.  They were of course well aware of what was being done and in fact the only reason I was there with clients was because the company wanted it that way.  These bills were later of course used for tax deductions by the company.

In the USA there is a strict criteria for the deduction of entertainment by the IRS.  If you're able to meet that criteria, dinner, drinks and a visit to the local nudie bar are all deductable.

As for the legality of professional domination, the short answer is yes...in theory.  Where trouble can be come however is in the area of striking another person.  Outside of sanctioned things like boxing, martial arts and the like, anytime anyone strikes another person in the USA, whether mutually agreed upon or not, you are opening yourself to a potential problem.  For the most part the police just avoid it all, but you cannot discount the fact that they don't have to.  The same rules could apply to private play parties where no money whatsoever changes hands.  I am aware of no locality in the USA where the laws on assault have any wording indicating that BDSM activities are exempt.

You can tell your client to dress like a six year old and squawk like a chicken, you can tell him to crawl around like a snake and kiss your shoes, you can tell him to do all kinds of things and if he agrees you are fine  but anytime you smack a face or paddle a rump, under any circumstances, you can be at risk with the law.....



Even with just sessions involving humiliation, it is conceivable (especially in the US) that a client could sue for emotional damage.  If he tripped on a carpet or in a pair of high heels of the type kept in supply for sissy crossdressers and bumped his knee enough to bruise it, he could sue for negligence.  If we put eye makeup on him and he had a reaction to it, there's another lawsuit. If he catches a cold from kissing a shoe that someone else had kissed that day and he misses out on a week or work, there's another suit.  If he went home with even temporary pressure marks from the ropes and his spouse wasn't happy about it, if (as so many clients claim) he became "addicted" to the dominant and was unable to sexually function in the absence of his "fetish object", maybe his wife could sue. 

One of the positive sides of the domination industry being currently unregulated is that, in the absence of any governmental authority laying down guidelines for what is and isn't acceptable, nobody (that I'm aware of) has sued a pro domme - let alone won - for breach of contract, personal injury, negligence or any number of things that could conceivably be brought to court.  Once regulations for any industry are in place, everything changes.  Ha!  I can see Better Business Bureau reports complaining that Mistress Elvira had her Certificate of Completion of Dominatrix College, but gave a lackluster and barely adequate session. 

I really ought to write a sci fi story sometime that'd feature a society where all types of sex industry is regulated and you can walk into a Convenience Dungeon and get the Corporal Special with a side of Sissy Stuff(tm) and, if your behind isn't pinked to the minimum industry specifications and you don't feel your Domme has picked just the right lipstick color for you, you complain and get 15% off your next regular or lesser value session.

(in reply to SolangeRichards)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 2:42:13 PM   
jackod


Posts: 66
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		in las vegas is illegal,but just in clark county,jack

(in reply to ChainsandFreedom)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:03:17 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman

Ron(ne),

I would take the receipt as long as it meet the conditions set out above along with contact info the registered business owner, as most receipts include.

Although, why is it so hard for you to understand the concept that a registered business should be able to generate a receipt on request?  I have been dealing with all kinds of legal business my whole life, and never had the difficulty of getting a receipt until now, which make me question the legitimacy of a business.  Wouldn't you question a business that did not provide you with a receipt?



Hmmm  ever tried getting a reciept from a doctor in Ontario for the fee they charge to write a sick note or for filling out claim forms?? some bill anywhere from $10 to a $100 for notes and forms, most will refuse any form of payment other than cash, they are professionals  and definitely legal yet most will refuse to provide receipts.   


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:04:37 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dsubmissiveman



Now, I am not trying to set legal fireworks here and get people in trouble, but I am wondering about the legalties of professional domination.  I do know that it varies from jurisdiction and depends on federal and state/province law but I was under the impression that it is generally legal. 

......Just wondering if anyone here can provide me any feedback on this and inform me of the legal status of these establishments?



I am not going to comment on why the OP wants to know if pro-domming is legal. 

However, many people want to be sure they are not procuring, aiding and abetting criminal conduct.  They do not want to be arrested in a raid.  A criminal record can end the career of a lawyer, policeman, judge, real estate agent, car dealer (in my jurisdiction) and many others

Yes, it is generally legal in all developed nations except the United States (where it is only legal in Nevada?)

I gather the OP is from Canada.  Your legalised prostitution is fiendishly complex compared to ours in Australia!  Just google "is prostitution legal in Canada" and you will get your answers.

Or come on your next business trip to Australia!  Pro-dommes are the Queens of the sex industry and we have legalised brothels with registered prostitutes that abide by the law and pay their taxes.  Good brothels have dungeons and plenty of dungeons are licensed brothels.

Melbourne pro-Dommes don't usually do coitis, but they can smother you, handle your genitals, insert objects anally and make you masturbate with no threat of prosecution.  On the whole, they tend to be better trained (under the apprenticeship system to senior Mistresses) than the illegal "black market" workers in the US.  There is far less criminal element involved (no pimps to deal with) and less shame and secretiveness in the workers.

And you can ask for a receipt but I cannot promise you will get one!  Lots of businesses are cash in hand to minimise tax, legal or illegal.  Ring ahead and ask.  (My guess is that if you ask, they will assume you are a tax inspector and give you one.)

Surprisingly, prostitution/pro-domming is cheaper for consumers in countries where it is legal.  The reason is you don't need to pay the "crime risk premium".

I am really surprised how defensive some posts have been in response to this question.  It is a disgrace that the US has not modernised by legalising prostitution.  It violates the rights of women in the (kinky) sex industry. That is the only fact that makes me angry!!!



< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 12/20/2007 3:19:40 PM >

_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to dsubmissiveman)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:08:39 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainsandFreedom

KC602:

Recipts protect the customer as well as the bussiness. If the OP or someone in his position was, say, a fan of prostitution or cocaine, or just didn't want to be accused of such, than 3-600 dollars a month spent on recipt-less domination sessions would look mighty incriminating if he were ever audited. Im not going to assume anyone's that rare 'good citizen', but maybe he's ALREADY 'found a non taxable way to increase his income by getting reimbursed' that's of a higher value, so he wants to keep his books straight on the small stuff.

Boi:

You should care about paper-trails if that great wonton-soup place gives you Salmonella from their low grade Sesame Chicken and you have no recipts to show where you ate. Or if you care that their probably employing illeagle immigrants at slave wages, which would be a very likely reason to not have a paper trail.
Or if you go to a prodom and get an infection/unwanted rope burn/circulation problem from improperly administered equipment and can't even prove you were there.

In General:

Perhapse people don't want to frequent a non-paper trail establishment because they actually know people who run small bussiness's competing for the nehborhoods limited retail space. People who actually follow the laws and get squeezed out by expenses because they were good enough to play by the books and contribute to your communities, and you local land-lord's, tax base.

Most Importantly:

An awful lot of people write an awful lot on here about how pro-dommes arn't prostitutes, how pro-dommes should be accepted and leagalized, ect. You shoot yourself in the foot by defending shoddy bussiness practices- i.e. a great many prodom's.
With leagle rights come leagle responsiblities. Will we ever accept pro-dom's as a legitimate lifestyle choice in our lifetimes? Perhapse.
Will we ever accept downright mercentile bussiness's who have the same torte law practices as the mafia? certainly not. Own-up. If you're lifestyle is so important to you, show that it can operate in a leagle manner given the oppertunity.


Um, whether he gets reimbursed or not is not my business.  But he has also stated he is sliding them through on his employee reimbursement form, and plans to be rather dodgy and call it something else.  Do I care? N O.  But, for him to be worrying about whether they are paying taxes on what he is paying them, when HE is not paying taxes on what he is giving them, seems to be a bit of calling the kettle black.

JMO< your mileage may vary, I only planned to make one simple statement of my opinion on this , as it is pretty cut and dried, and there it is.  I do not feel this is earthshattering material, I only wanted to point out that the two points of is 1) is professional domination legal and 2) are they paying their taxes have nothing to do with each other in premise.

edited to add:  That was my point, even if a business is being run in a legal manner has nothing to do with whether they pay their taxes, as far as the legality of the services they offer.

< Message edited by kc692 -- 12/20/2007 3:09:47 PM >

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to ChainsandFreedom)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:10:39 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		That's it!  I'm moving to Australia!  Can I actually get in by saying I want better sex?

l

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:11:16 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne
I am really surprised how defensive some posts have been in response to this question.  It is a disgrace that the US has not modernised by legalising prostitution.  It violates the rights of women in the (kinky) sex industry. That is the only fact that makes me angry!!!


Certainly, it's a disgrace that prostitution isn't legalized in the US.  Since it has not, however, those of us who have to worry about legal consequences are going to be very invested in being crystal clear on our understanding of what is legal, what is decriminalized, what is illegal, what is recognized, sanctioned, etc.  When someone starts throwing blanket terms around questioning everything we do as a whole, yes, it's going to raise some hackles.  Insouciance on this issue is a luxury we don't have over here.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:20:52 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Isn't that how Jerry Springer's political career ended?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockmeupplease

A receipt??? It might be legal, but I doubt it's tax-deductible!!

(in reply to lockmeupplease)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is professional domination legal? - 12/20/2007 3:33:36 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Certainly, it's a disgrace that prostitution isn't legalized in the US


It is legal in the United States.  Prostitution laws are left up to individual states, which is the way it should be.  I totally agree that more states should legalize and regulate it.  But states and communities are allowed to set their own standards regarding the issue.  That's at the very core of the 10th amendment to the Constitution:  "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."  This amendment is why drug laws should be left up to individual states, and the Federal drug laws are absolutely wrong. 

I understand the frustration of sex workers.  But there is a simple answer to that; you have to participate more in your own local and state politics.  If you want this kind of recognition and protection, you have to change the law.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Is professional domination legal? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109