RE: Switchs (Full Version)

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simplewhispers -> RE: Switchs (12/26/2007 5:50:15 PM)

thank you for your wonderful explanation .




Alexedra -> RE: Switchs (sic) (12/26/2007 8:31:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Confuse me, it seems to me that you either are dominate or you are not , submissive or you are not,in my opinion I would have trouble respecting a DOM that had allowed himself to be in a submissive state, and I did have one Dom tell me this evening that he would have the same issue with the sub,perhaps submission would not be sincere. Course I know this is only my opinion so I came here asking the ? Is the switch role more of a role play than anything else?


I've read through the whole thread, and agree with much of what has already been said by other posters:  Asking questions to learn is great, but the way this question is asked is off-putting.  Nevertheless, I will attempt to look past the awkward language and understand the original poster's point.  I will add some comments from my perspective.

I am a true switch in the sense that I have a deep, ongoing need both to top and to bottom, and I can do this with the same person.  However, I am in no way submissive.  I am dominant where being dominant comes naturally, and I defer where someone is superior to me in knowledge or ability.  I can be dominant or submissive in role playing, although I find being submissive difficult to impossible with somebody I don't respect.

But how would someone trusting me enough to offer himself up to me in a submissive state, to bottom for me, cause me to lose respect for him?  It would not!  Instead, our relationship would have to be one of utter respect and trust to begin with before I would commit to that act.  I am much more attracted to naturally dominant, powerful, successful men than to submissive men.  Having a dominant man submit to my will for the duration of a scene is a powerful erotic experience.

Many of my play partners (all of whom so far have been male) have been able to switch, but some of them have a hard time switching with the same person.  They can bottom to one person, but top another.  Some get a different kind of emotional experience, or charge, from topping than from bottoming.

I don't think anybody should force themselves (let alone others) to perform in a role with which they are uncomfortable.  It's not the same thing - but just as an example, I don't do anything sexually with women even though that would be a popular and pretty party scene, because I'm just not into it.  So if somebody doesn't feel comfortable switching, then so be it.  I just happen to be more versatile than most people when it comes to topping & bottoming. 

It's really hard to put labels on the type of relationship(s) I'm looking for.  That's why I say "a perfect switch for a perfect switch" in my profile - I'd love to find someone like myself who is willing to think outside the box - play and just have fun with it.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 5:31:39 AM)

it has been this slave's experience that "switch", meaning dominant sometimes and submissive other times, depending on who is involved and the scenario in question, is the most common role she has observed...yet, it is the one folks claim and proclaim the least.




Jasmyn -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 6:55:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Confuse me, it seems to me that you either are dominate or you are not , submissive or you are not,in my opinion I would have trouble respecting a DOM that had allowed himself to be in a submissive state, and I did have one Dom tell me this evening that he would have the same issue with the sub,perhaps submission would not be sincere. Course I know this is only my opinion so I came here asking the ? Is the switch role more of a role play than anything else?


I had a submissive, male, turn nasty on me when hearing that a few years earlier I had bottomed at a play party ...gawd if he had issues with that one incident ... I imagine he would have fairly exploded had he heard about my earlier trysts with submission ... so he got dominated ...as in ...dominated right out of my life ...off the Christmas card list ... banished from the Queendom forever ...

You feelings about a dominant partner exploring submission is not abnormal ... it is a commonly held belief ... and is no different to the dichotomy of the maddonna/whore complex ... where a man struggles to acknowledge the duality of both existing in his partner ...  an ex of mine for example, going back 10 years now ... we'd have great sex ... but anything out of the norm would fuck with his head ... a silk scarf blindfolding incident sent him into a tizz .. that I was perverted and this whole thing was just way to weird ... storming out of the bedroom ... the idea of watching porn together sent him over the edge ...seriously he lost the plot ... I love watching porn with my lover ... but that night ended somewhat bizzarely ...as he went awol ...only to find him on locked in the toilet, wanking to a phone sex operator playing out fantasies ... he could do that readily with the anonymous ...but with a partner ... he couldn't put me (or any partner I imagine) into any box but good girl vanilla lollipop ... when I forced him, through my own sexual wants and needs, to confront the reality I am a sexual being ...he could not handle it ... I was meant to enjoy the intimacy of sex ...not the act of sex itself ... (which was a damn shame cause the sex was fantastic, even without all the trimmings.).

Failing to recognise the duality of submission and dominance that exists in all of us, every individual on the planet, including yourself and including the dominant partner you may eventually find... is only going to make for heartache ...

Pigeon holes are for pigeons not people.




beltainefaerie -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 9:36:13 AM)

I discovered that I was a switch, rather than only submissive, with my Master.  I would never dominate him; the idea is both repellent and laughable, but he did lead me to dominance.  He had me hit my sisterslave and I dicovered that I loved it.  I realize that sadism and dominance are not the same thing, but in my case, one led to the other.  I have gone on to have several submissive partners in addition to being my Master's submissive and I adore both.




laurell3 -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 2:07:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Confuse me, it seems to me that you either are dominate or you are not , submissive or you are not,in my opinion I would have trouble respecting a DOM that had allowed himself to be in a submissive state, and I did have one Dom tell me this evening that he would have the same issue with the sub,perhaps submission would not be sincere. Course I know this is only my opinion so I came here asking the ? Is the switch role more of a role play than anything else?


I had a submissive, male, turn nasty on me when hearing that a few years earlier I had bottomed at a play party ...gawd if he had issues with that one incident ... I imagine he would have fairly exploded had he heard about my earlier trysts with submission ... so he got dominated ...as in ...dominated right out of my life ...off the Christmas card list ... banished from the Queendom forever ...

You feelings about a dominant partner exploring submission is not abnormal ... it is a commonly held belief ... and is no different to the dichotomy of the maddonna/whore complex ... where a man struggles to acknowledge the duality of both existing in his partner ...  an ex of mine for example, going back 10 years now ... we'd have great sex ... but anything out of the norm would fuck with his head ... a silk scarf blindfolding incident sent him into a tizz .. that I was perverted and this whole thing was just way to weird ... storming out of the bedroom ... the idea of watching porn together sent him over the edge ...seriously he lost the plot ... I love watching porn with my lover ... but that night ended somewhat bizzarely ...as he went awol ...only to find him on locked in the toilet, wanking to a phone sex operator playing out fantasies ... he could do that readily with the anonymous ...but with a partner ... he couldn't put me (or any partner I imagine) into any box but good girl vanilla lollipop ... when I forced him, through my own sexual wants and needs, to confront the reality I am a sexual being ...he could not handle it ... I was meant to enjoy the intimacy of sex ...not the act of sex itself ... (which was a damn shame cause the sex was fantastic, even without all the trimmings.).

Failing to recognise the duality of submission and dominance that exists in all of us, every individual on the planet, including yourself and including the dominant partner you may eventually find... is only going to make for heartache ...

Pigeon holes are for pigeons not people.


Agreed and good post.  I think sometimes people want to believe in a romantic ideal that sees a person as a role.  We're not roles, we're human beings.  Every one of us has dominant and submissive traits.  Every one of us at times is submissive and at times dominant in life.  Looking at the person before you instead of some ideal dogmatic role will save people alot of heartache.  Find a PERSON that you are interested in as a PERSON and then go from there.   And if you find that person and they say their ultimate fetish and thing that totally does it for them is sex while juggling (or anything else that doesn't harm you), if you dismiss that based on ridgid role type perceptions, you again, are missing the point in my opinion.

Edited to address the concern listed below.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 2:37:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Confuse me, it seems to me that you either are dominate or you are not , submissive or you are not,in my opinion I would have trouble respecting a DOM that had allowed himself to be in a submissive state, and I did have one Dom tell me this evening that he would have the same issue with the sub,perhaps submission would not be sincere. Course I know this is only my opinion so I came here asking the ? Is the switch role more of a role play than anything else?


I had a submissive, male, turn nasty on me when hearing that a few years earlier I had bottomed at a play party ...gawd if he had issues with that one incident ... I imagine he would have fairly exploded had he heard about my earlier trysts with submission ... so he got dominated ...as in ...dominated right out of my life ...off the Christmas card list ... banished from the Queendom forever ...

You feelings about a dominant partner exploring submission is not abnormal ... it is a commonly held belief ... and is no different to the dichotomy of the maddonna/whore complex ... where a man struggles to acknowledge the duality of both existing in his partner ...  an ex of mine for example, going back 10 years now ... we'd have great sex ... but anything out of the norm would fuck with his head ... a silk scarf blindfolding incident sent him into a tizz .. that I was perverted and this whole thing was just way to weird ... storming out of the bedroom ... the idea of watching porn together sent him over the edge ...seriously he lost the plot ... I love watching porn with my lover ... but that night ended somewhat bizzarely ...as he went awol ...only to find him on locked in the toilet, wanking to a phone sex operator playing out fantasies ... he could do that readily with the anonymous ...but with a partner ... he couldn't put me (or any partner I imagine) into any box but good girl vanilla lollipop ... when I forced him, through my own sexual wants and needs, to confront the reality I am a sexual being ...he could not handle it ... I was meant to enjoy the intimacy of sex ...not the act of sex itself ... (which was a damn shame cause the sex was fantastic, even without all the trimmings.).

Failing to recognise the duality of submission and dominance that exists in all of us, every individual on the planet, including yourself and including the dominant partner you may eventually find... is only going to make for heartache ...

Pigeon holes are for pigeons not people.


Agreed and good post.  I think sometimes people want to believe in a romantic ideal that sees a person as a role.  We're not roles, we're human beings.  Every one of us has dominant and submissive traits.  Every one of us at times is submissive and at times dominant.  Looking at the person before you instead of some ideal dogmatic role will save people alot of heartache.  Find a PERSON that you are interested in as a PERSON and then go from there.   And if you find that person and they say their ultimate fetish and thing that totally does it for them is sex while juggling (or anything else that doesn't harm you), if you dismiss that based on ridgid role type perceptions, you again, are missing the point in my opinion.


laurell3,
this slave disagrees with you about the generalities you make in the above quote.  some folks are wired strictly for dominance OR submission--we aren't ALL switches, each and every one... but this slave would agree that most folks are.




laurell3 -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 2:47:06 PM)

I was referring to life in general and people as a totality and not a role.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 3:02:58 PM)

so was this slave, and even after your editing, this slave still disagrees with what you are saying.  folks exist who are not dominant or submissive in their lives or their roles with their partners...this slave thinks you left those folks out of your generality of "every one".




laurell3 -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 3:30:35 PM)

The mere fact that you have the ability to disagree with me indicates that the opposite is true.  We all have dominant personality characterisitcs to some extent.  Voicing an opinion despite conflict is, in my opinion a demonstration of one.

We can however, agree to disagree on this.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 3:41:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The mere fact that you have the ability to disagree with me indicates that the opposite is true.  We all have dominant personality characterisitcs to some extent.  Voicing an opinion despite conflict is, in my opinion a demonstration of one.

We can however, agree to disagree on this.


guess we'll just have to, since this slave doesn't equate discussions regarding differences of opinion as an indicator of posessing either submissive or dominant personality characteristics, either.
have a great evening[:)]




laurell3 -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 3:55:30 PM)

Thanks!  You too!




lovingpet -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 8:53:09 PM)

Once again with this "role you play"  line.  You have your mind made up.  Switches are playing a role in your view.  To me what I do is not play.  I am building relationships with various qualities.  It is not a role it is who I am, whichever position I take.  I don't play around.  Please examine yourself and apologize for any disrespect you have, intentionally or unintentionally, shown.  It would be a mark of social and emotional maturity to be able to do that.  It may have been inadvertent, but apologizing anyway will go a long way.

lovingpet




lovingpet -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 9:05:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I have no intimate experience with a proper "switch".  But, thinking about it, I'm pretty young.  Most of my sub/slave's were vanilla before meeting me.  I'm pretty sure that they can be either a sub/slave or vanilla now.  While I suppose most of us don't consider it off the bat, isn't that being a switch?  There is quite a difference between vanilla independence and slavery's demand for obidience.

In a way, I have some respect for switch's.  True, I'm sure many are either confused about their identity or just enjoy a variety of roleplaying positions, but isn't it also entirely possible that someone simply has a more sophosticated identity?


I do not wish to consider my identity more sophisticated, but it is more complex because I am waxing and waning to personalities, needs, and desires.  I crave to be submissive to one, cannot deny one who wishes for me to take control of them, and even find moments of fulfillment by switching within a relationship for various reason.  All positions are absolute, but none are invalidated by the other.  Complicated, yes.  Sophisticated, that is in the eye of the beholder.

Warm wishes,
lovingpet




kitttty -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 9:09:54 PM)

Slavish as I am, I dominate more often than I submit. Strange and inexplicable, really.

And I only have a sincere desire to dominate women. On this, I cannot switch. The idea makes me nauseous.




lovingpet -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 9:29:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I think the real confusion is that people automatically assume that every switch is dominant the first 5 minutes and then submissive the next 5 minutes with the same partner as opposed to the role is determined by who the partner is. Submissive to Jack, but dominant to Jim.

Of course, I am sure despite my post that people will continue to be confused by switches and secertly continue to hate them and ignore their existance so they won't lose their sense of security in their perfect little black and white outline of how BDSM works.


Even when I do switch within a relationship, it is not like that.  I think perception is key here.  Primarily I am domme or sub depending on with whom I am interacting.

I have one or two relationships where I switch within the relationship, but extremely rarely within an exchange.  The roles are typically absolute through the entire time.  On rare, and admittedly fun, occassions I have switched within a scene (violently I might add, both violently dominant and violently submissive).  There was no doubt who was who when the switch occurred and it was a matter of flowing with each other, not of vying for power or control.  I was fragile and needed the firmness of a trusted friend or had a head of steam needing releasing and I can sense the same in my partner and we may switch accordingly.  Usually we know where each other are before we begin, but sometimes it becomes painfully obvious as we begin to open again fully to each other.  Then we see the cracks and distortions and can better heal them.  We switch when it feels right, but also when it simply is right regardless of what need may exist within the individual.  Someone has a greater need and it is settled immediately. 

There is often confusion when the switch occurs and a bit of fight because we do not always see the need we truly have, rather the one that is most comfortable or allows us to avoid dealing with ourselves.  I do not always recognize or honor my need for a certain position in such situations, but we each look after the other's best interest. 

It is not easy to understand and experience is the best educator on the subject.  Hope this helped.  Feel free to ask any questions about this post.  I am, once again, only speaking from my own experiences and views and open admit that and welcome other polite and cheerfully offered opinions.

Warm wishes,
lovingpet    




AquaticSub -> RE: Switchs (12/27/2007 11:41:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Confuse me, it seems to me that you either are dominate or you are not , submissive or you are not,in my opinion I would have trouble respecting a DOM that had allowed himself to be in a submissive state, and I did have one Dom tell me this evening that he would have the same issue with the sub,perhaps submission would not be sincere. Course I know this is only my opinion so I came here asking the ? Is the switch role more of a role play than anything else?


Insert the words "straight", "homosexual", "bisexual" in the correct places and insert standard "Yes you can be a switch/bisexual. It happens. It just ain't your cup of tea" response. It works for both questions.

Edited to add: Yes, this was short. But I think LA did a damn good job of answering the question. [;)]




denika -> RE: Switchs (12/28/2007 12:26:41 AM)

My Dominant, my sadist is a switch, the role he and I have never changes tho, I am his. He will never bottom to me which works perfect since I'm not  a Switch. but he still has the desire and need to bottom from time to time. I will be the first one to admit it was actually something I struggled a little with at first, the thought I had at the time was  when he is bottoming, in that time frame he isn't my Top anymore' At least that was the initial thoughts I had until we got to know each other better and more emotions came into our relationship. No matter what he does it doesn't change the role or authority he has in my life. He is not 'pretending' or confused he is very aware of who he is. I have met alot of bottoms who 'pretend' to be Tops simply because they are embarrased of their own submissive nature but this isn't true in all cases. Like anything in life, no one completly fits the labels and boxes other's try to stuff us into.  



Wolf's denika




tomf22033 -> RE: Switchs (12/28/2007 2:03:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

thank you for your wonderful explanation .


When I first read your post and your first few responses, I thought what a jerk. But as I read the rest of the thread, I realized that you're not alone. Too many people see Dom or Sub as one or the other and if you switch you're a fake. But like several others here have said, most people are really switches. In my case, I've been in the lifestyle over 10 years and can tell you that people with your attitude are IMHO emotionally immature. The players, newbies, and those who don't learn get stuck where you're at.

If you really get involved in the lifestyle, and get to know many of the real "old timers" (20 plus years in the lifestyle) you'll find out that if they're still active they've probably experienced just about everything you can imagine. The most intense Dommes I know have experience subbing. And IMHO, as others have said, it gives them an understanding that you can't have without experiencing something.

In my case, I'm mostly submissive but am very dom in the vanilla world. Since I'm strong willed and naturally assertive, it takes a very intense Domme to keep me from topping from the bottom, and getting me into subspace. My years of experience subbing helps me get real creative and when I Dom which offers me an understanding of what a sub likes that very few can match. Often, I'll share ideas with my Domme friends. You'd be suprised and what I can come up with and the things that they do to their subs because of my ideas. Often simply talking will open discussion which will create new ideas.

As far as attitude. Just because I let women dominate me doesn't mean that I'm weak or submit to anyone. Actually, I only submit to the Domme I'm involved with or playing with unless something else is agreed upon. Likewise, I don't normally sub to those I Dom.

So, the point of this is that you probably should be very careful of generalizing as everyone is different and lumping all people in a catagory is dangerous. Oh yea, and as far as respect. Well, those of us who are secure really don't care if you respect us or not as long as you keep it to yourself. But if you ever met me with that attitude, I can assure you, you'd see my Dom side and you wouldn't like the tough lashing you'd receive.




ImpGrrl -> RE: Switchs (12/28/2007 9:13:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

This is a situation that always has me wondering. For those that are owned and own.. what happens when both the domianant and submissive require you at the same time?  Or is this a topping/bottoming situation more than that involving the responsibility of the ownership and being owned?  Or do you just have them take anumber? :)


It primarily depends on the relationship.  Responsible poly folks will figure this stuff out before firming up the relationship.

It secondarily depends on the situation.  Emergencies take precedence over non-emergencies, etc.





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