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How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 12:32:03 PM

saret

Posts: 71
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

Ok -

I'm the first person who harps about being ethical and responsible about BDSM. I learn my toys before I play, pay attention to body language and safewords.

But asking "Are you ok? Is that too much?" every few minutes during a scene can break the flow.
How do you ask "are you ok" without using those words? What are subtle signs a sub is not? I don't mean exhaustion, just knowing when to slow down/mix things up without forcing them to safeword?

-S-

< Message edited by saret -- 8/24/2005 3:22:33 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 12:36:07 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
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Is this possably a "sign" of a newbee who is playing with something they themselves are not sure of. ??

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 2

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 12:37:05 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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different scens different ways, stop and stare into their eyes, stroke em a little. Say things more like 'is that hand cold" in the form of a order, in my case "have you had enough bitch?" If you remember the movie "The Mmarathon Man".........Ask them "Is it safe?"

you get the gimmick, I know.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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Post #: 3

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 12:45:51 PM

MstrHellsFury

Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
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if you really want to know the real trick to not asking..Are you OK...put yourself on the recieving end and see if those are words YOU'D want to reassuring hear...but hey that was just a thought...kinda..sorta...maybe...

Fury

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 4

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 12:48:50 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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You're right it's a thin line between having a blast and distracting enough to ruin the flow. Kudos to you for checking in with the bottom/submissive/slave.

Master's technique works well for us. I don't know if it would for others. He will fequently stop to run his hands over me. This is done in a highly erotic and caressing way. During this time he will touch my hands to see if they're cold, grind himself against to see if I'm responding like a frenzied cat in heat.

During this he'll usually whisper in my ear, "How you doing, baby?" I find that it doesn't distract me, but keeps me going.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Post #: 5

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:12:10 PM

Veav

Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
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In my inexperience, I found there was enough communication between sub and dom without specifically being asked "are you okay?" No gags were involved, but if a sub can't volunteer the answer to that on their own initiative - either because they don't feel comfortable doing so or have had that stripped from them - that might be a scene that shouldn't happen.

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 6

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:24:52 PM

saret

Posts: 71
Joined: 4/27/2005
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Yah, I am somewhat green. So what? Thats why I ask advice from people with more experience. I'm not shy about always wanting to learn more.

I'm trying to fine the line between fufilling both our fantasies and being safe. Yah, its supposed to be taboo, yah its supposed to be dangerous - but its still two human beings involved.

-S-

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 7

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:32:38 PM

saret

Posts: 71
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veav

In my inexperience, I found there was enough communication between sub and dom without specifically being asked "are you okay?" No gags were involved, but if a sub can't volunteer the answer to that on their own initiative - either because they don't feel comfortable doing so or have had that stripped from them - that might be a scene that shouldn't happen.

Ah, but that doesn't always work when you're playing with someone you're new to. Also, I'm not talking about total exhaustion or serious damage, just knowing when to slow down or switch things up without being a nag.

Pushing someone to safeword every single time, I dunno, seems too much to me like just making a point.

-S-

(in reply to Veav)

Post #: 8

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:33:20 PM

krazysubbiekat

Posts: 145
Joined: 7/31/2005
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Well, in the ideal scene (or at least my ideal scene *G*), the two parties involved would be in tune with each other enough to know when the scene has gone on long enough or when the submissive/bottom/whatever is in distress. That is barring any unforeseen occurances. In my experience, however, those unforeseen occurances are the reason for safewords. This is a good arguement for the red light system; and when asked for a color, (in a harsh growl in my ear *big smile*) i have found that it isn't distracting at all and in fact serves to center me, ground me, bring me back to my dominant.

_____________________________

"Treat every day like it is a gift. Unwrap it and then wrap your arms around it; it will surprise and intrigue you." --N. Elchibini

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 9

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:46:01 PM

TahoeSadist

Posts: 176
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

saret,
I think your question, indeed your attitude towards learning is exemplary :) More new (and even older) people should take the same approach. It is indeed a hard question to answer in that each person is different in how they handle a scene. What I do, if playing with someone who is new to me, is to talk beforehand a bit, find out how she processes things, and what reactions I could expect. That makes it a bit easier to read what's going on, as well as letting me (hopefully) figure the best way to "check in" I have been reprimanded in the past by an experienced play partner who didn't like how often I checked in, which is what led me to start looking to refine how I did it.
So to me it's : 1.Communicate beforehand 2. Encourage feedback from your partner, because their feedback gives *you* a way to gauge what's happening 3. Talk to them after the scene (next day or so) which lets you learn more about how the person "ticks"
It may not work for everyone, but it has worked for me. Above all, if they start reciting the local District Attorney's phone number, you may have pushed a bit too hard LOL.

Eric

_____________________________

As long as one of us enjoys it, it's not a total waste

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 10

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:51:02 PM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
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There is nothing wrong with looking for confirmation on practises, if more did there might be less accidents and cries of "abuse".
I know when I started out and especially when playing with a new person I often over did the asking if they were ok, it may have spoiled the scene a little but I'm glad I erred on the side of caution and didn't harm them. It doesnt have to be anything to do with not knowing the implement one is using but more not being familiar with a sub's body language because they do react differently, for example some are vocal, some go quiet.
As you get to know someone better you will read them better.
I use methods like Bobbi suggested, instead of asking are you ok whisper something into your subs ear maybe about how good they look, how well they are doing, or something evil you have planned and see how they react and it should tell you what you need to know.
Another thing to do is to slow down a bit and see if they start pushing back for more, seeking the play as such.

Hope some of that helps.

Oumae

< Message edited by Oumae -- 8/20/2005 1:53:31 PM >

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 11

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 1:52:07 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

Ah, but that doesn't always work when you're playing with someone you're new to. Also, I'm not talking about total exhaustion or serious damage, just knowing when to slow down or switch things up without being a nag.

I would try using the three colors as safe words, green, yellow, and red... discuss with the submissive and decide on the meaning you both will place on the three colors... then when you are concerned simply ask for a color. Afterwards I would also discuss the scene and get some input from the submissive about anything that could have been done differently.

I'm glad you seek advise, to me it shows that you take what you do very seriously.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 12

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 2:05:04 PM

Veav

Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: saret
Ah, but that doesn't always work when you're playing with someone you're new to. Also, I'm not talking about total exhaustion or serious damage, just knowing when to slow down or switch things up without being a nag.

Pushing someone to safeword every single time, I dunno, seems too much to me like just making a point.

Whoops! I need to restate, then - I didn't mean to imply that a scene should cause the sub to safeword, regardless of whether or not the sub has been asked! Limits are limits and they need to be communicated, regardless of it's before, during or after a scene.

Asking "are you okay now? How about now? Is this right? Want me to do something different?"... I just meant that the sub should have the opportunity to communicate if they're not okay, or if they're bored, without this distraction or coaxing. In those shoes I'd be saying to myself, "...yes, I'm okay... should I not be okay? Am I doing something wrong? Are they doing something wrong? Are they getting bored?"

On the other hand, when I was actually in those shoes, I did my best to communicate without a safeword, and occasionally with. And I'm completely happy with how it went, from start to end. A safeword is just another form of communication - which is where I'm coming from here. Both sides should be able to start that up no matter what.

_____________________________

Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 13

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 3:28:33 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I believe Veav is right. The submissive or slave should be open during the scene. Its something that yourself as a dominant probably wants and should communicate that desire to the sub/slave. And that doesn't mean she/he has to keep saying'I'm fine' - it means that she/he should be positive in communication. Of course, this can complete blow when a sub falls into that state on 'unconciousness' where the lines are blurred - but thats where your commen sense comes in. If you feel a red flag - or is something is going to intense for the sub/slave - its your control that will make or break the scene. There is nothing wrong in letting the scene fold because you see a sub/slave will not be able to further - and any sub/slave that doesn't understand that needs to communicate with you later and discuss the points which helped you make the final decision.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 14

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 3:41:55 PM

sanita

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: saret

How do you ask "are you ok" without using those words? What are subtle signs a sub is not, beyond obvious signs of exhaustion?

one time, on a recent visit, my Master was simply amusing the Sadist in Him. i noticed that while He was teasing and torturing, He would be watching my face, but He kept looking at my hand, which was actually quite relaxed on the arm of the overstuffed chair i was in. it was not a full-out scene, but there was pain involved, and because of where we were, i had to be quiet.

i asked Him later why He had kept looking at my hand. it had actually made me aware that my arm and hand were relaxed while so much of the rest of me was not. He says that He had learned that can be a good indication of trouble, or at least change. not just in me, but in most of the subs with whom He has played.

so, maybe that is something you can look at.

i have noticed that if i splay all my fingers and sort of tap-out, or slap whatever it is i am on, usually without meaning to, i am usually needing more air, or am getting close to "almost nearly too much." i think that may be a factor in what He means.

i would ask him to explain Himself, but He has not come to these boards in a long time, and will be offline for a while longer. is there anyone else here who can expand on this?

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 15

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 3:52:29 PM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

Toes can be another give away, clenching of them or rising on them can often show when a sub is really feeling something.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to sanita)

Post #: 16

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 4:55:25 PM

OscarHargraves

Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

Asking is the best and safest way to learn. Don't let them scare you off from asking questions. Everyone starts out as a newbie. The smart ones ask and learn from the people around them so they don't have to make mistakes that others have learned from.

Lots of good suggestions here. Pick the one(s) that work for you and your Dom and try them. As you get more experienced you'll both find that reading the body language gets a lot easier and he will know when to slack off just a little and let you catch your breath.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 17

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 4:57:38 PM

CitizenCane

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

If it's somebody you're new to, you need to go slow and observe carefully. I've seen a remarkable range of reactions from different people to more or less the same subjective experience, and there's no single sign for everyone (well, maybe convulsions... but we never want to get there, do we?). You have to be willing to take some time to learn your partner if you want to push things.
I certainly agree that pushing people to safeword is generally counterproductive. Once, maybe it builds trust, after that, it often erodes it.
One approach that I find helpful is to set up your own rythmn of interspersing the 'hard stuff' with little breaks for caresses, anticipation, just catching the breath. All of this helps build the total experience while giving you a chance to look for signs of problems. By setting your own pattern, you maintain control (and the appearance, to the sub, of control), and don't appear to be reacting to every little movement or squeal, but you still have lots of opportunities to back off or shut down if needed. Building up from short, lighter inflictions to longer, heavier ones allows you to gauge the pattern of the sub's reactions.

Cane

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 18

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 5:45:38 PM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
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Watch the fingers and toes, watch and LISTEN to the breathing, the moans and groans.

If you don't know someone well enough to recognize certain patterns of behavior, then you may want to wait until you do. Learn to touch the skin, lean in close and smile at them a lot. Your happiness and facial expressions give the bottom confidence that they can talk to you.

All of those things are wonderful tricks, but first and foremost, never play without arranging safewords. For me, I don't even give them "Red/Yellow/Green" anymore unless they talk about using those words beforehand. I usually tell them that if they need to communicate ANYTHING to me at all, ("faster", "slower", "gawd this is fun", "that spot is sore, but I'm otherwise having a great time", even the ever-critical FOOT CRAMP!") raise one foot if they are standing, or open both hands if they are laying down. These things are natural reactions to stress for most people, and almost instantly get trained into their subconcious. Not to mention, the raising a foot is a response to the foot cramp anyway. I listen to ANYTHING coming from them, if it's a color, number, or anything else, I listen.

I simply will not play with people who go silent when they are playing. The communication is part of the thrill for me. I have one playmate with whom I talk constantly. We giggle back and forth and talk about everything going on. He tells jokes and says things like..."oh yeah, awesome throw, Ma'am", "I know who that is" (all the floggers have names), "sharp", 'hot", yummmmmmmm". Sometimes he sings, and I listen to the volume and tone.

Don't be afraid to talk during playtime, either. One super-geeky playmate (husband) softly mutters numbers while we play. He uses a 1-10 scale. Keeping him talking also means he remembers to breathe, which is his one issue. (Gotta custom build scene rules around the players, ya know.)

All of these things are dependent on how you play and why. I won't use gags because I like the verbal intercourse. Some people want to tie someone up so tight they can't complain, so safewords would have to change. You can be creative, but most important, if you want them to communicate with you, you have to create that comfort zone before the toys come out. If someone is having a "quiet day", it might not be right to play with them that day. If you are digging too hard for information, then it gets UNfun real quick.

Have fun and RELAX. This will all get easier. Good for you for asking good questions.

Purr

(in reply to saret)

Post #: 19

RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 6:52:14 PM

cmatrix4761

Posts: 73
Joined: 6/28/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Is this possably a "sign" of a newbee who is playing with something they themselves are not sure of. ??

*Newsflash* Everyone was a newbie at one time.

-- CM

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 20

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