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RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 8:09:32 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
That he didn't pay attention to her responses and back off when she got scared.

How do you know this? Were you there? She admitted that she liked it. Fear is one of the biggest turn ons for many slaves/subs I know and have played with. It seems that he was paying attention to her responses, they just weren't telling him to stop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
How was she supposed to safeword when she was being suffocated? Did he even think of giving her an alternate way of stopping things when she couldn't talk? Hell no.

Again, how on earth do you know this? Have you talked to the OP in a channel not available to the rest of us? She says he did it three different times. She could have certainly said something in between. For all we know they actually had a system of non-verbal safewording. I doubt it, but there simply isn't enough evidence to accuse him of anything of the sort.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 21

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 8:14:33 AM

anowner

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

When she discussed it with him later, and indicated that it was a bit much, he said he would never do it again.

It seems to me that this is exactly how things should work, even with people who have been playing for years.

On the other hand, she liked it even if it did put her off later, yet now he's said he'll never do it again. Possibly if they'd gone through a little more negotiation (I dislike that word--anyone have a better one?), they'd be doing it again tonight and getting off on it. If she (and he!) had been "playing for years"--but they haven't, and thus the fuss.

I still think it sounds like this guy might not be quite as skilled or experienced as he thinks. (True of so many of us! I'm no exception.) I'd be more worried by the accidental facial marking than the plastic bag, which wasn't all that different from the choking she said she liked, and arguably safer.

I think she should proceed if she wants to, but with a bit more caution, or maybe preparation. LuckyAlbatross' suggestion of "keep it to the basic stuff first and then we'll see where this goes" is not a bad way to do so. Negotiating an edgy but limited session is a bit riskier but not unreasonable, if that's what she wants to try.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 22

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 8:25:28 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anowner
I still think it sounds like this guy might not be quite as skilled or experienced as he thinks.

You are most probably correct, and, as I said in my first post, I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here. But when I see people jumping up and down acting as if this top had ignored all of the signs of a scene gone horribly wrong, it just pushes my buttons.

In all honesty, it sounds like they had a good scene, but it pushed her just a bit too far. When she tried to talk to him, he just got pouty and said, "fine, I'm never trying that (or anything else that might be edgy but fun) ever again, so there!" Better communication obviously would have helped, but it is just as important to communicate after the scene as before it.

One of the things in all of my contracts is a contract review. Both the slave and Masters must go over all points of the contract and describe how they worked during the execution of the contract. They must also describe the best point of the enslavement period as well as any times that were uncomfortable. Only after this review can a new contract be negotiated.

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 12/28/2007 8:26:12 AM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to anowner)

Post #: 23

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 8:38:33 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I suspect the destruction of her sinuses, and collapsing of her lungs is what is causing her to type nowadays..........

Surely damaged for life.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 24

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 9:47:49 AM

giveeverything

Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

Hey thanks for the post and feedback.. all of which are helpful. A little clarification... I don't think it was malicious or had any ill-intent. We did have a safeword and a safe signal, unfortunately my hands were tied behind my back so I could not use the safe signal... and the three episodes with the bag were one right after the other.

One other thing that made me rethink this -- after the scene was over and I was coming down he made a remark, something to the effect of, it scares me some of the things I think of that I could do to you.

I bring this situation to this forum so that I can figure out what I did wrong, what I can learn from, how I can stay safe in the future. I know I have culpability in this... that's what I'm trying to figure out.

thanks

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 25

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 9:53:29 AM

giveeverything

Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

one other thing... I've tried (sent one message to him) to talk to him since reading the posts here... and he hasn't replied back (which he always did before). So the lack of communication now seems a sure sign of something.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 26

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 9:54:43 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything
I bring this situation to this forum so that I can figure out what I did wrong, what I can learn from, how I can stay safe in the future. I know I have culpability in this... that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Why do you insist on there being "something wrong" in what happened? Being scared or uncomfortable (or even a bit beat up) doesn't have to be "wrong". Growth is often painful, and what happened to you was nothing more than a growing experience.

I don't see the reason for "culpability", just a chance for learning and growing...and if you aren't growing, you are dead.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 27

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:00:36 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

Hey thanks for the post and feedback.. all of which are helpful. A little clarification... I don't think it was malicious or had any ill-intent. We did have a safeword and a safe signal, unfortunately my hands were tied behind my back so I could not use the safe signal... and the three episodes with the bag were one right after the other.

One other thing that made me rethink this -- after the scene was over and I was coming down he made a remark, something to the effect of, it scares me some of the things I think of that I could do to you.

I bring this situation to this forum so that I can figure out what I did wrong, what I can learn from, how I can stay safe in the future. I know I have culpability in this... that's what I'm trying to figure out.

thanks

That line is a bit concerning. I heard that from someone who turned out to be a bit too sadistic and over the top and into non-consensuality for my taste. It shows a possible lack of impulse control.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 28

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:20:52 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

one other thing... I've tried (sent one message to him) to talk to him since reading the posts here... and he hasn't replied back (which he always did before). So the lack of communication now seems a sure sign of something.

If he never replies back, then you can just chalk it up to one more dom who couldn't survive his domliness being questioned. For lots of folk, on both sides of the slash, when the fantasy is destroyed (either through miscommunication or sometimes even a simple misunderstanding) it can never be rebuilt.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 29

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:35:02 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Well, in my world, with my brand of common sense, it would never have occurred to me that I would need to tell someone, "do not put a plastic bag over my head."

At this rate, my list of "do nots" is going to be as big as a house.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 30

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:42:25 AM

anowner

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/26/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

Well, in my world, with my brand of common sense, it would never have occurred to me that I would need to tell someone, "do not put a plastic bag over my head."

And I'd never think to tell a woman I wasn't going to do that, unless we'd discussed breath play (which is not a kink of mine), but if a woman told me she liked to be choked, and I was interested in giving her something like that (which I'm not) without the dangers of overcompressing her throat (which would worry me), I might've made the same move.

I make mistakes from time to time, which is why I don't fly planes and I don't do knife play.

< Message edited by anowner -- 12/28/2007 10:43:26 AM >

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 31

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:46:35 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: anowner

I don't do knife play.

You are missing out. Get a two knives that are identical, and grind the edge of one down so it is dull. Let the slave play with the sharp one and then swap them without her knowing when you start to go to work on her.

Unless you are looking to do scarification, dull knives can be a lot of fun to play with!

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to anowner)

Post #: 32

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 10:50:54 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

Hey thanks for the post and feedback.. all of which are helpful. A little clarification... I don't think it was malicious or had any ill-intent. We did have a safeword and a safe signal, unfortunately my hands were tied behind my back so I could not use the safe signal... and the three episodes with the bag were one right after the other.

One other thing that made me rethink this -- after the scene was over and I was coming down he made a remark, something to the effect of, it scares me some of the things I think of that I could do to you.

I bring this situation to this forum so that I can figure out what I did wrong, what I can learn from, how I can stay safe in the future. I know I have culpability in this... that's what I'm trying to figure out.

thanks

I don't think most people are saying he has malicious intent, however, I think he's a bit reckless and regardless of intent reckless can lead to injury or a bad scene and that should not be what either of you desire. The fact that you didn't have a safeword that you could actually use in the context of the scene you were in is another indicator he's not really paying attention here. The fact that your hands are bound does not mean you can't have some safeword type indication. Snapping your fingers, a bell sold at craft stores for twenty cents, something you say rather than doing if you are able to talk are all simple solutions.

I don't think the fact that he indicates that he has some dark thoughts about what he could do isn't really an indication of anything. It's not uncommon for people to have darker fantasies than they will ever act on and it's not uncommon for them to ponder or even struggle with them. His inability to actually have control over himself and the scene and think it through and know how you are feeling before doing risky type play, that to me would be a serious issue.

With regard to his current lack of communication, did you discuss this with him before posting about him on this forum?

I wouldn't take posts here personally while it may seem people are saying "well..duh" and some are, I think most people understand everyone has a learning curve. It's all too often that some s type is in the position of learning from a D type that isn't really honest with themselves that they are still learning too. It's easy for us to say you should have done x, if you want to see how many of us in the past have made the same mistakes starting out, there are plenty of threads on that as well.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 33

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 5:22:44 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

give,

I think anowner sums ity up.

CP

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 34

RE: another confused newbie - 12/28/2007 5:26:53 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

and who can call some of this mistakes?

OK, all you new babes, here is the negotiated scene.

I will kiss you once for 12.246 seconds.
I will harshly grasp your titties at 12 ft/lb pressure 3 times for 4 seconds apiece.

You will moan uggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I will then forcibly separate your legs using 42.3 pounds of lateral pressure within 14.562 seconds

I will then insert my penis for 24.28 seconds rhythmically and timberally growling bitch 19 times.........
and so on-----------

Um, it ain't go like that y'all, it is somewhat more fluid and spontaneous.

On the other hand the icepicks are not coming out until we have at least alluded to them.

So, liked it, hated it, caught a slab of guilt over it.................

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...

No artifical colors were used in painting this rather drab picture either, this is going to prove far less consentual that what has transpired here to date.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 35

RE: another confused newbie - 12/30/2007 7:56:51 AM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

Am I over reacting, because that's how I feel right now. Two BDSM friends of mine say don't see him again. I feel like I let it go too fast too soon. I feel like I might have sent him a message that this is what I wanted (because I like the controlled feeling of being choked).
I checked him out throughly, asked him questions, had a safety-call plan. And now feel confused by it all. I know I should have done more to insure my safety... I'll admit that. And you know not many people to discuss this with. Maybe you can all give me your take on the situation (and it's okay to tell me I'm naive and whatnot... I know already.... it's a learning experience).

Hello giveeverything. My take on this is that you want to play with this guy again. Already two BDSM ''friends'' told you not to see him again.

Just make up your mind and accept the risks. Shit happens. Or? do not take any chances and listen to your friends. If I were you, I would not take advice from strangers (collarme) over those from my friends. I do not think your friends are responding to twelve lines of post like we are. RL.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 36

RE: another confused newbie - 12/30/2007 10:35:08 AM

Knightenslaves

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
It seems to me that this is exactly how things should work, even with people who have been playing for years. He didn't ignore a safeword or send her to the hospital. He tried something and she liked it...where is the crime?

I think the OP might want to think about how she could like something and at the same time have it scare the shit out of her. Maybe this guy taped into something that could be further explored.

Taggard

Completely agreed...edge play isn't for everyone and one hopes that this guy knows all of the proper responses and reactions he may need to have. If you enjoyed yourself, you were not hurt and when you thought back and said you did not want to go there I can not see how wrong he is.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 37

RE: another confused newbie - 12/30/2007 11:33:50 AM

AMaster

Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

one other thing... I've tried (sent one message to him) to talk to him since reading the posts here... and he hasn't replied back (which he always did before). So the lack of communication now seems a sure sign of something.

You must understand by now that he is not interested.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 38

RE: another confused newbie - 12/30/2007 6:06:30 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything
how I can stay safe in the future.

Give us a clear, concise and complete definition of what 'safe' means to you. It sounds to me like you and any other prospective dominants need a script to work from so that there are no surprises. A clear understanding of exactly what will happen and an even clearer understanding that nothing unscripted will happen. Not the most terribly exciting way to go about it but it is the closest thing to providing the guarantee you seem to be seeking. When you get some experience under your belt then you can deviate from the script.

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 39

RE: another confused newbie - 12/30/2007 6:52:34 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

He's guilty of being stupid. Normally, that's not a hanging offense, but the fact that he was stupid in the way he cut off your air... well, I'm not sure I'd give him another chance at it...

There's the way he did it... (surprise you with a plastic bag, which you could have inhaled a peice of, or he could have had difficulty getting off of you quickly....) and there's the way a Domme friend of mine did it with me... She introduced me to a gas mask, after I had been bound. She spent some time letting me get used to the idea... she assured me that this was going to be play, and that she was not some dangerous psycho... She then placed it on my head, and I was allowed to breathe normally through the filter hole, with no filter on it... Then she began blocking it with the palm of her hand. Just for a moment or two at first... then progressively longer periods until I was really panicing from the lack of air... (she always said that my begging needed work... well, not THAT afternoon, I can assure you!)

Ultimately, yeah, I enjoyed myself... (aside from the pounding headache afterwards) but it really wasn't for me... too scary. I like a good challenge when subbing to someone, but having my life endangered via brain O2 deprivation just ain't worth it, to me.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 40

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