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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 3:20:15 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Termy: If you tell me what it is you think "they" wont let me hear I promise to pass it on to anyone who will listen.
Cant say my friends 'cos I haven't got any.

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 3:33:21 PM   
subfever


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In another year or so, after my youngest child leaves, I'm pulling the plug on the boob-tube. I've already wasted more time sitting in front of it, than I'll ever make up for.

I'll keep it though, just in case I want to rent a movie or program to watch.

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 5:05:20 PM   
EvilGenie


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Want to violate pc copyrights? I already have. My windows operating system, MS doesn't even know about. I have pay programs (programs, not tv shows) all free and on disc. I can set anyone up with a computer system that works so well it would make you cry and so free to me that governments and large corporations lose a bucket load and cannot even find me.

CMail me Terminator should you wish to know more.


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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 5:10:38 PM   
farglebargle


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Why bother using a pirated version of Windows when Ubuntu is both SUPERIOR *AND* Truly Free?

That's like stealing a pinto, when you can legally drive an audi.





< Message edited by farglebargle -- 12/31/2007 5:11:09 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 5:37:03 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I mean if you had a bazillion watts you won't even be heard by your next door neighbor. That is the point. Absolute control.

Snipped for brevity.

You won't be understandable, but a big nuisance (due to front end overload/single tone desense), probably leading to the wrong kind of attention.  (Those regs about intentional interference with a licensed service come to mind.)

If it's hooked up to cable, it's harder to desense it, but it could be still be done.  Just takes more power (arr arr arr!)
If you just put out a sizable, dirty AM signal like the folks who use high power amps on CB, you'd be heard through peoples' speakers, clock-radios, etc. 

thornhappy

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 5:58:00 PM   
HaveRopeWillBind


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Oh I believe it Mr. Terminator

Some even believe that 'big brother' will be watching from the inside of the HD tv.  Only way to rid of it, kill the cam chip, thus your tv won't work.  So you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Best case scenerio-don't own/watch a tv. Some believe that ipods not only recieve but relay private conversations, keep track of your movements, location, etc etc.



Ever since the announcement of the forthcoming HDTV I have been hearing rumors that the new TV's will have 2-way capability and indeed will be able to act as cameras into your home, even when supposedly turned off. Of course I have seen no proof of this in writing but persistent rumors often do have some basis in truth. I think George Orwell's "1984" has finally arrived. The Neocons are "Big Brother."

Terminator, I hadn't considered the anti-jamming capability of HDTV, but it does make sense. No wonder the administration has been trying to consolidate the media business as fast as possible into one or two big mega-providers. Much easier to control the output that way.

We never needed Teddy Roosevelt more than we do now.


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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 7:47:01 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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I'm not understanding why one couldn't override the HD signal. It's just digitally encoded, and broadcast over the same old signals. I'd bet there are websites right now that will explain how to encode HDTV signals and transmit them.

I mean you have to have a special box if your tv doesn't have it built in. I have it connected, and it uses a UHF antenna, the box is not connected to anything(no phone, computer or ethernet). So, the box passively will accept any properly formatted signal.

So, why can't you get a transmitter? I assume a computer with a bit of software could encode it properly. I'm guessing it works as two signals one for picture,and one for data. Don't know but I'm not understanding why it's unhackable.

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 8:01:27 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


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Just imagine if you had enough power to generate 1.21 gigawatts you could travel through time with your tv!!!

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 12/31/2007 9:22:50 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Oh I believe it Mr. Terminator

Some even believe that 'big brother' will be watching from the inside of the HD tv.  Only way to rid of it, kill the cam chip, thus your tv won't work.  So you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Best case scenerio-don't own/watch a tv. Some believe that ipods not only recieve but relay private conversations, keep track of your movements, location, etc etc.



Ever since the announcement of the forthcoming HDTV I have been hearing rumors that the new TV's will have 2-way capability and indeed will be able to act as cameras into your home, even when supposedly turned off. Of course I have seen no proof of this in writing but persistent rumors often do have some basis in truth. I think George Orwell's "1984" has finally arrived. The Neocons are "Big Brother."

Terminator, I hadn't considered the anti-jamming capability of HDTV, but it does make sense. No wonder the administration has been trying to consolidate the media business as fast as possible into one or two big mega-providers. Much easier to control the output that way.

We never needed Teddy Roosevelt more than we do now.


Say, just say, that the TVs had a cam built in.  Which I've never heard tell of... all you'd have to do is put some foolish electrical tape over the pickup!  If someone added that capability, the first place you'd hear about it would be the specialist magazines or the Electronic Engineering Times, etc.

As for Ipods telling where you are....they aren't phones.  They'd need a GPS chipset and antenna  for it to report position data, or some ability to generate a cellular signal (that would really piss off the cellular companies, tying up their networks for free!)

I swear, sometimes it's like hearing about the chips implanted in our heads..

thornhappy



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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/1/2008 11:44:24 AM   
came4U


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quote:

Say, just say, that the TVs had a cam built in.  Which I've never heard tell of... all you'd have to do is put some foolish electrical tape over the pickup!  If someone added that capability, the first place you'd hear about it would be the specialist magazines or the Electronic Engineering Times, etc.


what about those two guys that debunk mechanical stuff? grr forgot their names.

I'm with the other lady who said she is just gonna unplug all tv's, I too have wasted enough time watchin' that idiot-box.  You know you are old when Facts of Life re-runs are actually priority over making dinner.  I miss big hair and Joe with her mullet...Blair with her itchy credit card fingers and Mrs. Garret with her sound, yet innocently screaming advice.


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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/1/2008 2:57:07 PM   
luckydog1


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I see Thornhappys Chip implant is working perfectly.....<grin>

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/1/2008 3:17:57 PM   
thornhappy


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Yeah, I always take it in for a tuneup every 3 months or 3000 miles!

thornhappy
now, where's that eggnog I was sippin' on last night?

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/1/2008 6:18:47 PM   
Termyn8or


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I have given you the perspective of those I now call suits.

Now comes the prospect of them having cpmplete control. How many people have NEVER spoken to any of their neighbors ? Ever.

That means all communication is aproved by the powers that be.

You know how to make a perfect inescabable jail ? Take down the walls and tell the inmates they are free.

T

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 3:33:48 AM   
shallowdeep


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Termyn8or,

If I understand correctly, you believe that the reason for the DTV switch is tighter government control over what information is broadcast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

However, with digital, the whole game board is changed. With digital TV you might be able to scramble, block, or otherwise screw up their signal. But you can't get your signal out. The recievers are setup for certain digital CODECs and whatever other protocals. There is no way to break in.

Digital TV achieves perfect control of the flow of information. They say what goes on and what doesn't, and that is that.

There is nothing magical about a digital system. The transmission is still an analog RF signal and, providing you have the power, there is nothing technical preventing the signal from being overridden. The system is admittedly more complex, using stronger modulation and coding (8VSB and Trellis-Code Modulation) as well as compression (MPEG-2) and the error checking (Reed-Solomon coding) necessary for a digital signal over a noisy channel. However, the ATSC standard is fairly well documented and, as I said, there is nothing (other than legal concerns) preventing anyone with the right equipment from overriding the signal.

So, if preventing pirate broadcasts isn't the rationale for the switch, what is?

Spectrum. You are right in pointing out that HDTV channels use the same 6 MHz of bandwidth as NTSC, so a switch to digital HDTV doesn't reduce the bandwidth requirements from a purely analog broadcasting scheme. The problem is that in 1997 television stations were allocated a channel to use for DTV broadcasts in addition to their existing analog channel. As a result, currently twice the spectrum is being used by, essentially, redundant broadcasts.

The 700 MHz spectrum is valuable for the reasons it was chosen as a TV carrier: it is good for relatively high bandwidth transmissions over relatively long distances. Some of the spectrum that will be freed up by the transition will be used for improved public safety communication equipment, an issue that became topical after 9/11. Licenses to the rest will be sold to the private sector in auctions expected to raise at least tens of billions of dollars for the federal government. Many companies are interested in using the spectrum to provide high-speed wireless internet connections, especially for mobile devices. Antenna design for mobile applications isn't as much of an issue as you believe. GSM phones already use the 900 MHz band, so the same designs could be used with a modest 30% increase in antenna size.

Of course, the spectrum issue is only the proximate cause of the switch. The underlying reason for a switch to high definition is similar to the reason for a switch to color TV. It's a mixture of consumer desire, electronics companies eager to feed that desire to create demand for new products and, to some extent, a desire to keep pace with technology in the rest of the world.

While your assertion that digital television facilitates government control of information is lacking in merit, there is another, more valid reason to be concerned. Television and movie studios have been wary of broadcasting digital content that can be copied perfectly and have tried to add digital rights management (DRM) to television broadcasts, by way of a broadcast flag that could prevent the recording of television and impose other decidedly anti-consumer limitations. After a successful legal challenge, it might be dead, but the capability is potentially there.

The broadcast flag, like DVD regions, is about content producers limiting what consumers can do with content in an attempt to maximize their profits and is unrelated to what information is available in that content.

------------------------------------------
Conspiracies look better in 1080p.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 3:43:57 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Now that sounds sensible !
Termyn8or wont like that. he he he he he he

What "they" dont tell you is that if digital reception "off air" weakens, which will happen, then you will lose large chunks if not all of the picture.
This rarely occurs via cable.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/2/2008 3:49:18 AM >

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 6:40:09 AM   
TMaster2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

With regular analog TV, you can override the TV transmitter signal. Most TV stations are on the order of a few megawatts, but in the tens of kilowatt range you can do this in a limited area.

I'm glad you don't live next door to me.  If you were overriding my tv I'd be kinda pissed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
My point is that with digital TV you cannot do it at all. I mean if you had a bazillion watts you won't even be heard by your next door neighbor.

Walk over there and talk to him?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
So how about the radio ? ...With hetrodyne technology I could transmit on many frequencies, overriding ALL of the most popular stations. I mean I know what the fuck I am doing, if anyone here understands what hetrodyne means, they know that I can do this.

Some of you think I am fucking kidding, but I am not. This country is an seriously bad bad trouble, and the blissful people think the traffic jam is there biggest problem. Wait until I get the circuit board making kit out again. You can kiss your favorite song goodbye when you get to the high level bridge. And they will never ever catch me because I know how to build in a timer or delay, or even remote activation. Sometimes I wonder why I haven't done this already.

But with HD radio, them days are over.

*whew*  good thing!  Don't you be messing with the channels I CHOOSE to listen to.



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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 7:45:19 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I have given you the perspective of those I now call suits.

Now comes the prospect of them having cpmplete control. How many people have NEVER spoken to any of their neighbors ? Ever.

That means all communication is aproved by the powers that be.

You know how to make a perfect inescabable jail ? Take down the walls and tell the inmates they are free.

T


People make the choice to talk or not talk to their neighbors, it's not like we're penalized for doing so.

thornhappy



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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 11:35:35 AM   
luckydog1


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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 1:29:24 PM   
Termyn8or


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I come from a very technically adept family. VERY technically adept.

Regular TV occupies a bandspace of 54-890 Mhz. Digital TV is going to use the same frequencies, the same antennae and a good part of the same equipment..

Now I am good, but I do not have the ability to properly encode a digital signal for this new transmission method. Not only is it digital, which is a bitch, and I could almost handle it if it were simply that. But there are security protocols in the format that make it near impossible I would be better off with a megaphone.

The next generation of my family could no doubt figure it out, but there is none. Like Germans, we are quite able to figure things out, but like Germans we do not reproduce. In case you did not know, in Germeny they PAY you to have kids.

If I applied myself to it I could figure it out. I think I could actually get a signal out, like Radio Solidarity, but just how much time do I have ? I can barely keep up with technology to keep my job. I am becoming a dinosaur.

But the young, the ones who do have the time and resources to do this do not have the insight into the workings of the world that I do. And truthfully I will be glad to leave this life, and when I do I will be damnear useless. But that is the order of things. Dinosaurs died, and so will I.

We are losing everything, the kids now who might be able to pull off a Radio Solidarity type project are more interested in their video games. I want you to know, we have lost alot. All inventions these days are mainly within the framework of other inventions. The true innovators are gone. In fact the way I see it, there has not been much invented since the 1950s, that is when AMERICANS invented the transistor.

The IC chips are nothing but an outgrowth of this. You know if the shit REALLY hit the fan I would be the guy you want around. I know how to make an IC, even though I have never done it. I understand about the dopants and the layers and the laser trimming if needed for precision. I know it all the way from the silicon piece of fucking rock, all the way to your bigscreen TV. I know the optics, which is a big thing in a projo TV, but I also know that a similar thing is going on when they make the IC chips that make the thing run.

They make these huge drawings and use lenses to reduce the size, at an absolutely high resolution. The bigscreen does the opposite. When you watch your nice Mitsubishi sixty inch, what you don't see is that picture is produced by three seven inch super bright CRTs.

There was a time I had a standard. I did not want to own anything I could not fix. You just can't do that 100% these days. I mean these are not my days anymore.

My dedication to learning in my life is all worth shit now. They have outstripped me. My IQ might be high, and it is, but specific knowledge is what it takes. They do not give it up. I don't care if your IQ is 300, it will be damn hard to break their control.

I am not religious at all but I have read some Bible, and Revelations is very telling. "Men shall seek death and not find it". I know I am in my end times and I am just fine with it. When the time come fine.

But the same is not true for you, and you must remember this. My sis and I are in our forties and neither one of us is stupid enough to have kids at this age. Our family dies with us. But you have other options. Why do you think I spend more time writing posts on the internet than I do at work ?

And that also has occurred to me, how do we know when each other dies ? I mean if any one of you dies I would like to know and I would grieve. Understand thought that my ilk takes it way differently.

The loss of us to the world is significant IMO, and that is my self worth. Got a sperm bank handy ? My sister once said to me "You'll say anything to anyone", and I replied "Yes".

The kind of people who come and tell you what the suits are doing are going to die off. They ain't making no more. The young among you, if you have read this far, understand that this is now your charge.

I might have twenty years to live, but how much can I add to the body of human knowledge when it is moving so fast that even fifteen years ago when my cousin got out of college found that what he learned last month is already obsolete ? You think I got technology ? this fucker turned dow a hundred grand a year job with IBM, he now owns his own business.

You people try to challenge what I say. I tell you that this comes from a world of experience. You will never experience this world, it almost doesn't exist. The way things have changed, the way the world is now, there will be no more like us. We are the Urbans, and not from the clan who puts out the books.

We are proud of what we are, even if our ideology is no longer in sync with how the world is. We are Polack and German, we are of a dying breed. After we are gone the world is your's.

I hope you are up to it.

T

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RE: The REAL reason for the switch to HDTV - 1/2/2008 3:39:40 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Truly Termyn8or your appearance on this planet has been a mind shattering experience for all who have had the privilege of reading your words of wisdom.
Thank You.

ps: I am more than 20 years older than you are and I can tell you my pecker still functions, now and then anyway, and all things considered I am doing OK.
So dont worry.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/2/2008 3:42:26 PM >

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