Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (Full Version)

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pollux -> Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 9:55:02 AM)

I had an interesting conversation this weekend with someone who mentioned her belief that BDSM is a more highly evolved type of sexuality than vanilla. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm curious what others here think.

I'm not talking so much about the Master/Mistress-slave dynamic that pervades daily life for some people here. For this thread, I'm talking purely about the erotic component -- people who incorporate some type of power exchange or sadomasochistic activity into their sex lives, or people who find BDSM sexually stimulating.

Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't? Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?



thelight -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:02:49 AM)

there's always a power exchange, even in the blandest vof anilla relationships.

we acknowledege it, where as some vanillas sublimate it.

i think many, but by no means all, of the people in this lifestyle are at an advanced stage of psychosexual awareness. but i also think that there are many more vanillas there than we give credit for.



Veav -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:09:36 AM)

I feel that d/s tends to produce practitioners who have taken a good hard look at themselves and explored, solidified their self-identity and realized what it is that they want. That attracts me a lot and I'd like to make it to that point myself. That doesn't make it exclusive to BDSM, it just means I tend to see a higher signal-to-noise ratio among its practitioners; completely "vanilla" personalities can also reach that same understanding and acceptance.

As for the kink? Same thing, really. Vanilla people can be fulfilled with just your basic tab A in slot B, and there are plenty of variations and wild explorations on that theme - I won't consider WIITWD evolved just because we use nipple clamps as well as a dildo. I tend to see more evolved practitioners, simply because they've taken the time to understand, but it isn't exclusive and it isn't necessary by any means. Saying that ours is a "more evolved" sexuality is... well, IMHO, kinda just ego talking, like every generation telling themselves "OMG, we invented sex! Our parents never did this!"



Isolde -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:23:22 AM)

No.

I understand how it would be easy for someone to believe that. What we do can have such a profound impact on us, emotionally, mentally, even physically. The promotion of strict honesty and good communication is widespread. It's easy to feel superior when you're neck-deep in interactions that give you this sort of rush, or feeling of safety, or whatever it is you're trying to get out of this, surrounded only by those people who feel exactly as you do. It creates a wicked echo chamber.

What some forget is that rush is no more powerful than the rush vanilla people feel, when they're neck-deep in their happy relationships.

A successful vanilla relationship will use a lot of the same tools a successful BDSM relationship uses. The only real difference is the flavor and that's certainly nothing to feel superior about. But... that's people for you.



perverseangelic -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:26:57 AM)

It's a different type of relationship, a different way of relating to your partner, and a different way of being fufilled.

That's all. Neither or better or worse, except that one is fuffilling to an individual and the other is less so.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:27:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't?

No. People in bdsm have just as many issues/squicks/prudes/uneducated/freaked out about sex as anyone else. BDSm and Ds is about authority and control, not sex.

quote:

Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?


No.



Faramir -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:42:13 AM)

Good post Isolde.

To add anther thought: insularity leads to provincialism - the belief that your little town, hobby, circle or niche is the superior example. Ignorance enables a baseless sense of superiority because you don't have external reference points.

I think this sort of sentiment would be rare from someone with a background in literature - after reading enough poetry and prose about eros you could never kid yourself that vanilla people don't experience a soaring, transcendant love that is every bit as fulfilling and electric as anything we know.

A sense that your prediliction or circumstance is superior = provincialism.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 10:51:46 AM)

quote:

Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't? Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?


Could be; but not necessarily because of BDSM practices. Like "good sex", good BDSM requires a commitment to know your partner intimately. More or less intimate knowledge is, in my opinion, contributory to satisfaction. Satisfaction usually equals a comfort level in who you are and what you are doing.

It's not exclusive to BDSM practitioners, although it may happen more often because there is by it's nature more communication, and more ongoing communication, necessary in a BDSM relationship. But I feel people who communicate and trust their partners in a vanilla relationship get the same result.



saret -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 11:16:18 AM)

Nah.

Just because its amazing and profound for you, does not mean that it is amazing and profund for everyone.

Lots of vanilla types are just as self-aware and exploratory as BDSM types. Perhaps they tried it and weren't interested, or the fantasy just never appealed to them.

Just because more equipment is involved doesn't mean that its more highly evolved.

-S-



CitizenCane -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 11:20:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux



Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't? Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?



No, just me personally. ;-)

Cane





NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 12:00:45 PM)

I don't think it's quite fair to say that BDSM is more advanced. Usually in any type of sexual encounter some type of powerplay goes on. I wouldn't say we're more highly evolved beings, we just have a different preference. Also, I think at times in EVERYONE'S life they experience some urge related closely to BDSM, whether it's for dominance or submission. (And the reverse side of this argument is naturally that we're less evolved than our vanilla counterparts. I personally think that both arguments are bunk.)



OsideGirl -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 1:45:12 PM)

I have the belief that BDSM D/s goes back to the basics of being a human being. We all have a little sadist or masochist in us. There is always a leader of the pack or herd in nature.

I think it's natural to find a partner that fills in your empty spots. It's yin and yan. You'll notice even in the vanilla world that people with submissive personalitites gravitate to to people that have strong personalities.

I think that the people in the lifestyle are more open and in touch with that part of their personal makeup. Doesn't make us better or worse, just different.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 1:47:53 PM)

Yes, we are much more advanced. It's a little-known fact that vanillas were all created on the sixth day, but kinks were created on the seventh--when God was SUPPOSED to be resting.

That's why doms are so lazy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't? Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?




sub4hire -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 3:49:44 PM)

quote:

Do you think people who practice BDSM -- ethically, of course -- have a more highly developed/advanced/evolved sexual identity than those who don't? Are they "further along" (whatever that might mean) the human developmental path -- at least as far as their sexuality goes -- than vanilla types?


Nope, I often call people within the scene more enlightened. Yet I only use that analogy because we have some many more sexual kinks we explore over vanilla's. It rarely if ever will get boring in the bedroom.
Where most vanilla's bore pretty easily.



ragdoll -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 4:06:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Where most vanilla's bore pretty easily.


i wonder why you think that?
Maybe vanilla is boring to you... and you'd bore easily like that... but... why do ya' think that for vanillas it'd be the same...? What makes you say that they "bored pretty easily" in the bedroom...?? What makes you think that for them vanilla sex is boring? ...

i'm not trying to be confrontational.. i'm just curious...??


edit: sorry.. i know that above question is a wee off-topic
-_-;;



truesubboy -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 4:44:10 PM)

I would go so far as to say that people who practice BDSM are engaging in a better form of sexual expression. Nor would I say that BDSM is an advanced state of sexual activity. This would imply that as the human race progresses, they would all come around to this "advancement." I will say however, that BDSM is a more cereberal and intellectual experience than raw vanilla sex. The mental aspects demanded by the scene necessitates that a higher level of abstract thought enter into it, rather than just pure animal instinct. BDSM isn't so much highly evolved as it is more multi-dimentional than vanilla sex. There's so much more going on, so to speak.



happypervert -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 4:51:33 PM)

quote:

I had an interesting conversation this weekend with someone who mentioned her belief that BDSM is a more highly evolved type of sexuality than vanilla

I wonder just how highly evolved your friend would feel if someone was pissing on her.



junecleaver -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 5:25:15 PM)

quote:

I wonder just how highly evolved your friend would feel if someone was pissing on her


lmao.

I think Veav had an excellent point.

It's no more advanced in my opinion.



MsPurrmeow -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 5:57:36 PM)


I see much of my own personal BDSM and D/s strength coming from very primal places within myself. In many ways, that counters the theory that we are more evolved, doesn't it? I allow myself to growl and bite and BE what I am. I drink deeply and claim strongly that which is mine. I lead and defend my pride with honor. I relish in the pain and sensation of my playmates.
Am I in fact reverting to a less-evolved state? Does "evolved" center on being more refined and using bigger words, or is it about accepting what is inside us and allowing us to be free?

Either way, it won't change the fact that when there is flesh between my teeth, I am animal.

Purr



MsPurrmeow -> RE: Is BDSM a more advanced/evolved sexual identity than vanilla? (8/22/2005 5:58:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veav
I feel that d/s tends to produce practitioners who have taken a good hard look at themselves and explored, solidified their self-identity and realized what it is that they want. That attracts me a lot and I'd like to make it to that point myself. That doesn't make it exclusive to BDSM, it just means I tend to see a higher signal-to-noise ratio among its practitioners; completely "vanilla" personalities can also reach that same understanding and acceptance.


Wow. Very well spoken.

As for my own opinion, I see people who have simply found a path that vanillas overlook or avoid for various reasons. Those we know of as "kinky" see that path as a viable option. Whether they are on this path simply to reach the end or if they are partaking of every step, every moment, and every succulent experience along the way just shows that we are all still unique. We are different from them, and we are different from each other, we've just chosen a path that works better for OUR hearts and minds, than the ones the vanillas choose. They've chosen the path that works for them.

Purr



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