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RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:17:10 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Why do you keep discussing crimes? *I* am not discussing Criminal Acts. I am discussing Acts of Honor and Integrity.

Fargle, you are just so full of it.

You are the one who quotes "law" to great length. You are constantly saying how it's "plain" how everything you disagree with is an "illegal act".

Muttling does a very good job of showing you how your "legal" arguments in this case hold no water ... and then you claim you aren't discussing "legal acts" at all?

Hey ... if you can't win on your first assertion ... change what you claim to be arguing.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 221

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:19:33 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

-Bonus points if you can tell me who the first casualty of contact is.

The plan

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 222

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:24:53 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

-Bonus points if you can tell me who the first casualty of contact is.

The plan

Ahhh, some of your history comes out.

Ex-military, huh?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 223

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:37:19 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

From THIS thread:

farglebargle said:

If you're man enough to torture a prisoner tied to a bed, why aren't you man enough to submit yourself to police custody for your crime, and plead guilty to the charge of Torture -- accepting the LEGAL CONSEQUENCES of your CHOICE TO TORTURE A PRISONER?

I think that's the real issue here -- Not "Under extraordinary circumstances, what should a person 'in the breech' do should the worst come to the worst"?, but "Why should someone who DOES break the law under those circumstances, evade the legal consequences of their choice?"

Also, this is interesting:

"crime" and "farglebargle" search

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 224

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 9:57:25 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

-Bonus points if you can tell me who the first casualty of contact is.

The plan

Ahhh, some of your history comes out.

Ex-military, huh?

Firm

Oh noze! You found me out! Some of my oh-so-top-secret history!

Well, I might be, or I might like the author John Ringo. Or it might be both.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I'm not telling.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 225

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 11:17:04 AM

ModeratorEleven

Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline

That's two down, anyone else want a vacation? Discuss the topic civilly or you'll be removed.

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 226

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 3:34:35 PM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

-Bonus points if you can tell me who the first casualty of contact is.

The plan

ROCK ON!!!!!!!

Here's the answer to what I was referring to when I said, "Black n white thinkers allways made me nervous becuase they struggle to deal with something that doesn't work with the school solution."

I have seen the following epitath at Benning and Bragg,

quote:

Here lies the bones of Ranger Jones.
A graduate of this institution.
He died last night,
in his first fire fight
using the School's Solution.
BE FLEXIBLE

http://www.collarchat.com/post.asp?do=reply&q=1&messageID=1513252&toStyle=tm

Other favorites of mine:

Don't react to the enemy, make him react to you. - General Mao Tse-Tung

The most dangerous guy on the battle field isn't the one with the biggest gun, it's the one with the biggest radio. - Sgt. Orange (that guy had to work hard to keep me out of trouble)

Win if you can, loose if you must, but always cheat. - Jesse Ventura (former Navy SEAL)

The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. - General Patton

Ummm....I guess it IS possible to use too much explosives. - Mutt after shatterring a window at the base commander's office.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 1/3/2008 3:36:33 PM >

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 227

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:11:45 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"the alleged offender is a national of the United States;" means the people WORKING at Gitmo, doing the torture. Not the prisoner.

The prisoner isn't the "alleged offender" here, the prisoner is the VICTIM of the "alleged offender".

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 1/2/2008 5:50:11 PM >

Damn!!! I misread it, and posted in error. I like my crow roasted with Garlic. I have to eat seconds on this one, it wasn't even a small mistake....

How about plum sauce for the second serving?

thornhappy

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 228

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:16:58 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Oh noze! You found me out! Some of my oh-so-top-secret history!

Well, I might be, or I might like the author John Ringo. Or it might be both.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I'm not telling.

All righty, another John Ringo fan!

thornhappy

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 229

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 7:24:42 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

I really enjoyed the Council War Series, and his Honorverse short stories. When I saw the bonus question, all that went through my mind was the Blood Lords chant:

Herzer: What's our motto, boys and girls?
Class:    No plan survives contact with the enemy!
Herzer: And who are we?
Class:    THE ENEMY!
Herzer:  Dismissed.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 230

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:02:43 PM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

Bring it on.........I have three commands that come to mind.....

First: Supressive FIRE (command to fire teams)

Second : Fire for effect. (command to artillery)

Third: God rest your souls. (command to enemy)

< Message edited by Muttling -- 1/3/2008 8:03:29 PM >

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 231

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:10:58 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

Bring what on?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 232

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:21:36 PM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

hehe....An attack from the enemy. That quote you gave me is striking of something a commander would say in getting his forces ready to go on the offensive. It is not something that would be said to soldiers on the defensive as it runs up your troops' level of agression. Aggression IS a good thing, but not something that can be maintained.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 233

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:29:03 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

Oh! DUH!

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 234

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:30:27 PM

TankII7871

Posts: 174
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline

Honor is not enforceable by law????? Seen it happen more than once in the Marines the charge was conduct unbecoming of a Marine. That is a legal charge brought against a Marine in a military court of law. I'm sure the other service's have a charge on the books just like that .

Eric
Semper fi

(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 235

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/3/2008 8:38:57 PM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TankII7871

Honor is not enforceable by law????? Seen it happen more than once in the Marines the charge was conduct unbecoming of a Marine. That is a legal charge brought against a Marine in a military court of law. I'm sure the other service's have a charge on the books just like that .

Eric
Semper fi

With all due respect, read the last SEVERAL pages and understand what it was that the banned poster was claiming to be "Unbecoming". It's not even close to what you are thinking about.

On an additional note, he is claiming that the oath of office for the president is criminally enforcable. When I noted that the president is not under UCMJ jurisdiction, he started this "well it's not a criminal issue" thing.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 1/3/2008 8:41:03 PM >

(in reply to TankII7871)

Post #: 236

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/4/2008 2:14:41 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

(Who wants to be remembered in the history books as ones who sold America down the river?)

Apparently the majority of voters in the Red states, and the Republican controlled Congress of the last six years, and the current White House Administration.

I can probably come up with a few other examples.

Sinergy

edited to get rid of "most of"

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 1/4/2008 2:38:13 PM >

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 237

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/4/2008 2:18:04 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

The constitution does NOT hold jurisdiction abroad. Otherwise, we would be charging people in foreign contries with violating the Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speach, etc.

So technically, our indictments against people like Osama Bin Laden are meaningless and constitutionally invalid.

I was wondering how long it would take the Bush Cheerleading Squad to make that point.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Muttling)

Post #: 238

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/4/2008 3:26:03 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

The constitution does NOT hold jurisdiction abroad.

Moreso, it would mean The President, Congress, and the Judiciary have NO AUTHORITY outside the US. At all. Period... As in even deploying troops would be Unconstitutional.

And Muttling... Wouldn't VIOLATING YOUR OATH be "Conduct Unbecoming"?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 239

RE: Can Bush do this? - 1/4/2008 3:46:37 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

The constitution does NOT hold jurisdiction abroad. Otherwise, we would be charging people in foreign contries with violating the Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speach, etc.

So technically, our indictments against people like Osama Bin Laden are meaningless and constitutionally invalid.

I was wondering how long it would take the Bush Cheerleading Squad to make that point.

Sinergy

This isn't entirely accurate. Bin Laden isn't an army, he's a person. He could be charged in New York for the murders of those people; international extradition isn't too uncommon. Bin Lade's militia (Al Qaeda) on the other hand, easily falls under the 'foreign invader' definition in the constitution, and as such is exactly what the war powers outlined in Article I Section 8 were designed to address.

Soldiers at war aren't and shouldn't be afforded speedy trials before they're shot in combat.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 240

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